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If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

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bankside said:
No, people don't get to "define themselves." Words have meanings independent of people's random utterances of them. Guys who regularly enjoy sucking dick do not get to label themselves as straight, because that is not what the word "straight" means. Similarly the concepts of masculinity and heterosexuality and straight-acting actually do mean something. How people "choose to view themselves" may have nothing to do with it. In which case, it's not a question of "honouring their self-concept" or whatever modern anti-positivist mumbo jumbo" but of educating them as to the meaning of these words.

Words like "masculinity" and "heterosexuality" and "homosexuality" are interesting because the academic history behind them is relatively shallow compared to other sociopolitical concepts like "power" or "authority" or "will." But that means there is just more need of education. Not more need of random people using the words in inconsistent and contradictory ways.
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And these people are using society conceptions of gay and straight behavior to "define" themselves.
 
xbuzzerx said:
Rolyo this reads dangerously closely to "if you are masculine, and acknowledge and affirm it, you're aiding the enemy." Which should be a ridiculous statement if as has been posited all over this thread, straight men don't have a monopoly on masculinity or femininity.
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I've got to go to dinner now but remind me to respond to this if I forget later.
 
Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

bankside said:
No, people don't get to "define themselves."
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I'll tell you why I find discussions with you pointless. You present your point of view as some form of universal truth without exception, and with no regard for other points of view. This statement applies to no one else in the thread. Exchanges with you feel like a one sided conversation of listening to you explain how it is for everyone regardless of whether they think that's the case or not.
 
mitchymo said:
The terminology is neither judgemental nor sweeping. That's how YOU may see it, that's not how i see it. It reflects the type of guy i am, and that's that.
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Yeah, cause I am the only one with the problem here. If that were the case, there would be no argument.

You have consistently ignored my explanations as to WHY the baggage is there. Your only responses are "it's not cause I say it's not".
 
bankside said:
No, people don't get to "define themselves." Words have meanings independent of people's random utterances of them. Guys who regularly enjoy sucking dick do not get to label themselves as straight, because that is not what the word "straight" means. Similarly the concepts of masculinity and heterosexuality and straight-acting actually do mean something. How people "choose to view themselves" may have nothing to do with it. In which case, it's not a question of "honouring their self-concept" or whatever modern anti-positivist mumbo jumbo" but of educating them as to the meaning of these words.

Words like "masculinity" and "heterosexuality" and "homosexuality" are interesting because the academic history behind them is relatively shallow compared to other sociopolitical concepts like "power" or "authority" or "will." But that means there is just more need of education. Not more need of random people using the words in inconsistent and contradictory ways.
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Thank you. Amen.

Or can I call myself a giraffe?
 
Rolyo85 said:
What YOU don't seem to be getting is that society gives none of the fuck whether you use SA or not. Straights still see you as gay (unless you're closeted). And most gay men see you as a douche :p
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First I don't use the term. But most gay men? I wouldn't go that far. Like lex said the term attracts A LOT of attention. It works.

And it's not a matter of caring what society things. It's using society's definitions to get a point across. Everyone knows what it means. That's the point.
 
xbuzzerx said:
Rolyo this reads dangerously closely to "if you are masculine, and acknowledge and affirm it, you're aiding the enemy." Which should be a ridiculous statement if as has been posited all over this thread, straight men don't have a monopoly on masculinity or femininity.
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Except nowhere have I said anything against calling yourself masculine, other than that I'd question the need to advertise something society already assumed about your gender.
 
xbuzzerx said:
I'll tell you why I find discussions with you pointless. You present your point of view as some form of universal truth without exception, and with no regard for other points of view. This statement applies to no one else in the thread. Exchanges with you feel like a one sided conversation of listening to you explain how it is for everyone regardless of whether they think that's the case or not.
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He is right in this case though. Saying "this term means what I want it to mean and I don't care about connotation" is an extreme cop out.
 
LuckysRevenge said:
First I don't use the term. But most gay men? I wouldn't go that far. Like lex said the term attracts A LOT of attention. It works.

And it's not a matter of caring what society things. It's using society's definitions to get a point across. Everyone knows what it means. That's the point.
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Been on Grindr lately? Barely anyone ever uses it anymore.
 
Rolyo85 said:
He is right in this case though. Saying "this term means what I want it to mean and I don't care about connotation" is an extreme cop out.
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One of the things I've learned here, people like to make words mean what they want it to mean.
 
Okay, in the wake of all this posturing and hullabaloo, now, i'm straight acting.

Come at me, bros.
 
Rolyo85 said:
He is right in this case though. Saying "this term means what I want it to mean and I don't care about connotation" is an extreme cop out.
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Words, their meaning and their connotations change over time. Regardless of Bankside appointing himself head of the Conservatory of American English.

If you call yourself a queen does that mean you're a female regnant of a country?
 
It doesn't bother me. I take it as they are just saying they are not a flamer, another sterotype but gets the message across.

My favorites are the ones that post something like this,
"Sraight guy here looking to play around with another guy. Looking to take your cock up my ass and cum in my mouth"

I've actually seen that post. In what universe does this denote a straight man. The poor delusional things.
 
xbuzzerx said:
Words, their meaning and their connotations change over time. Regardless of Bankside appointing himself head of the Conservatory of American English.

If you call yourself a queen does that mean you're a female regnant of a country?
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Yeah, let me know when "straight acting" isn't an implication on how gays act.
 
Rolyo85 said:
Yeah, let me know when "straight acting" isn't an implication on how gays act.
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This is petulant when I have said the term is problematic and asked for alternates.

I suppose what this boils down to for me is that there is a poor choice of available terminology (one alternative has been suggested so thanks for that) but I suspect the outrage comes from distinguishing at all moreso than from the term itself, and several posts seem to have acknowledged that.

If someone feels inherently threatened by a statement of masculinity, or begins a series of internal mental inquisitions about someone who does so, especially if they turn around and affirm that effeminate identifications are positive, the problem is theirs.
 
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