"Illegal Immigration" is paranoia-speak for "Mexican-hating"

[Centexfarmer]

Kurn I keep coming back to this post of yours here.

We should have separate legislation for "neighbor countries."
We should make it a low-hassle affair for law-abiding Canadians and Mexicans.
They should be able to walk into San Ysidro or Nogales or McAllen or Detroit or St Alban's, Vermont, and pick up a low-cost lookin'-for-work visa. At the same time they can review relevant labor opportunities.
We get marginal labor needs met---there are many, many.
They get work and work experience and they can return home when they want to, no hassle; and they'll be bringing not only work skills to their home barrios but ideas about life and politics as it might or might not be.

Do you really think that this issue is that simple?

What about American Citizens who are trying to compete in the "same" job markets?

Would they be able to do the same thing? Should they be able to walk into Juarez, Matamores, Toronto, Vancouver, Cancun, Iztapa, and take those "service industry" jobs from Mexican Citizens too?

What's the point of having a border if your labor market is free to move in and out of various economies?

We've already seen what "free trade" has done to our Manufacturing economy. What that has done to organized labor's ability to stand on behalf of the American worker.

If we do what you suggest, "relevent labor opportunities" we begin paying the lowest possible wage because there are plenty of people's willing to work for that amount.

Have you not read John Steinbeck's the Grapes of Wrath?

In away, that's what's going on today. Except, instead of "Okies" we're now calling them "Mexicans."

The laborers in California didn't want the "Okies" coming to their state because they were driving down the wages being paid, not to mention being a burden on the infrastructure.

Today it's "Illegal Immigrants." Whoever they may be.

But the crude, un-American, anti-Mexican sentiments, whether direct or piggy-backed, expressed here are of course nothing I would want either Canadians or Mexicans to witness.
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.
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Legality and legalistic violence is for those that surrender to personal impotence. Not very American.

Or just plain ass fear.

Are you calling our elected officials in Washington "Un-American?"

"It's the LAW!"

That's how the "Christian-Right" kept us Gays down for so long.

Here in Texas Sodomy was a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a $250.00 fine, which therefore made being Gay a CRIME.

"We can't be giving these Godless Sodomites AMNESTY for their inequity! God will surely punish us for doing so!" (knashing of teeth, etc.)

We all have come out of a violent womb. Keep coming out or life isn't worth living.

True, and what's more important is for each of us to keep trying to see the variables in this issue, instead of trying to over simplify things with name calling, and/or feel good thoughts, and warm fuzzies, with a few bible quotes sprinkled in for good measure. IMHO

 

[Kulindahr]

How the hell did he put words in your mouth, Kuli? He QUOTED you! Now man-up here and own it, and give him an answer while you're at it!

Right here:

The US constitution advocates murdering unarmed people????????????????????????

So I am asking you to quote where in the US Constitution is it advocated to murder unarmed and unthreatening people, whoever they are... otherwise your words seem revealing of ulterior motives.
.

Both of those are putting words in my mouth.
It's just mud-slinging growing out of prejudice.

Bill O'Reilly used to quote Bill Clinton, too -- but he always surrounded it with false accusations and misinterpretations, which is why I asked Nishin if he's been taking lessons from O'Reilly.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Right here:





Both of those are putting words in my mouth.
It's just mud-slinging growing out of prejudice.

Bill O'Reilly used to quote Bill Clinton, too -- but he always surrounded it with false accusations and misinterpretations, which is why I asked Nishin if he's been taking lessons from O'Reilly.

I say Pushaw!

He wasn't putting words in your mouth.

He was asking you a question based upon a couple of comments that you made.

He was asking for clarification, and your justification for making such comments, and you've been side-stepping the question for nearly two pages now.

Get out of your "defense" mode, and go back into your "offense" mode and read it again.

 

[Kurn]

Kurn True, and what's more important is for each of us to keep trying to see the variables in this issue, instead of trying to over simplify things with name calling, and/or feel good thoughts, and warm fuzzies, with a few bible quotes sprinkled in for good measure.

YES. I come up with warm fuzzies, etc. That doesn't prevent other people --the democracy, on other words-- with coming up with appropriate VARIABLES.

If we ALL have thoughts of good will towards others then we much sooner minimize the unintended bad consequences of our socio-economic legislation, that is, of our various kinds of
"borders."

Put the good will before the laws and the laws will scarcely be needed and what we laws have will help things, not make them the same -ol' same ol.'

 

[Centexfarmer]

YES. I come up with warm fuzzies, etc. That doesn't prevent other people --the democracy, on other words-- with coming up with appropriate VARIABLES.

If we ALL have thoughts of good will towards others then we much sooner minimize the unintended bad consequences of our socio-economic legislation, that is, of our various kinds of "borders."

I find this to be true in my day to day life with people as well.

Answer the phone with a smile, and it can be heard in your voice.

Put the good will before the laws and the laws will scarcely be needed and what we laws have will help things, not make them the same -ol' same ol.'

I've seen many a law passed with the best of good will and intentions, only to utilized for the most vile and evil outcomes.

How does that phrase go? "That path to hell is paved with....?"

But I get your point.

 

[RandomAccess]

Now, Kuli. . . a little honesty on your part would be very refreshing right now.

Originally Posted by Kulindahr
Everyone but you, you mean -- your words were a fabricated accusation, based on nothing I've said.

Barely... for the second time, this is what you said :

Originally Posted by Kulindahr
I don't care who comes across the border illegally, I only owe them one thing: a warning to turn back, and if they don't, a bullet between the eyes.

Words you then tried to justify by mentioning the US Constitution...
So I am asking you to quote where in the US Constitution is it advocated to murder unarmed and unthreatening people, whoever they are... otherwise your words seem revealing of ulterior motives.

Originally Posted by Kulindahr
Um, for the second one, I'd have to refer you to the Constitution. Or are you saying that the United States does not own its own territory?

You were not talking about the United States... you were talking about YOURSELF and about how YOU "only owe them a warning and a bullet between the eyes".
The United States is an entity run by a government and I think it has a defense department big enough to repel any invasion if deemed necessary.
What I'm asking you is to produce documentation that asserts, as a lambda citizen, your ownership of the country's soil and that legitimizes your shooting around of immigrants in the name of the Constitution and claimed security matters.

He's got you dead-to-rights. . . now man-up! I've seen you dodge before, but never more blatantly!

 

[Backlum-Chaam]

Emergency rooms get a lot of traffic from illegal aliens; so do county health clinics. But they don't pay for them, citizens do -- and that's handing over wealth. They also drive on our roads, which are supported by taxes, and not just gas tax and car registration and driver's licenses; they don't pay those taxes, citizens do -- and that's handing over wealth. They use our parks, and schools, and recreation areas, all without paying the taxes to support those -- and that also is handing over wealth.

Where did you get the impression that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes?

And who do you think builds the clinics, roads, parks, schools and recreation areas that you claim illegal immigrants aren't "paying" for?

 

[JackFTwist]

I don't care who comes across the border illegally, I only owe them one thing: a warning to turn back, and if they don't, a bullet between the eyes.

I don't remember Jesus saying anything like that... am I missing something in the Bible or does it all become disposable depending on one's mood?

 

[spiralgary]

^^ Vicente Fox has his agenda and when it's not in the best interest of USA he can go to hell

The flow of gringo $$$ into Mexico's economy sent by illegals to their needy families mean there is more $$$ for folks like El Presidente to steal.

Vicente Fox is no longer president..... **Just passing by, I'm not going to argue more about this subject**

 

[Backlum-Chaam]

I don't remember Jesus saying anything like that... am I missing something in the Bible or does it all become disposable depending on one's mood?

I would assume the Bible becomes disposable depending on one's religion.

I may not agree with Kulindahr, but he certainly shares my right not to care what Jesus or the Bible says about such things.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Vicente Fox is no longer president..... **Just passing by, I'm not going to argue more about this subject**

That was established and acknowledged early on.

We were talking about his new book.

There's nothing more to "argue" about that subject.

 

[JackFTwist]

I would assume the Bible becomes disposable depending on one's religion.

I may not agree with Kulindahr, but he certainly shares my right not to care what Jesus or the Bible says about such things.

You may dispose of anything you like - but you misunderstand Kulindahr - he places great store in following Scriptural teaching. What immigrants would Jesus put a bullet through their head - well, it doesn't work that way. Which is the point.

 

[wanderer]

We should have separate legislation for "neighbor countries."
We should make it a low-hassle affair for law-abiding Canadians and Mexicans.
They should be able to walk into San Ysidro or Nogales or McAllen or Detroit or St Alban's, Vermont, and pick up a low-cost lookin'-for-work visa. At the same time they can review relevant labor opportunities.
We get marginal labor needs met---there are many, many.
They get work and work experience and they can return home when they want to, no hassle; and they'll be bringing not only work skills to their home barrios but ideas about life and politics as it might or might not be.

But the crude, un-American, anti-Mexican sentiments, whether direct or piggy-backed, expressed here are of course nothing I would want either Canadians or Mexicans to witness.
.
.
.
Legality and legalistic violence is for those that surrender to personal impotence. Not very American.
We all have come out of a violent womb. Keep coming out or life isn't worth living.

i must admit i do like this idea. you have read my previous comments which definetely support the immigration laws and supports enforcing them. however what you bring up is not in place yet, and i do think it would be worth trying. i also stated earlier that investment into Mexico may be worth while to the American economy. Canada is not that much of a problem because many americans work in canada, and many canadians cross the border to work and shop. the mechanics of that border are much different than the american/mexican border.

i think it would be great if the southern workers could get the passes to come here and look for work and then go home like you say, and while they are here, can learn a few skills, and learn the laws, and then take them home and enrich their cities. but i also think that they wouldnt leave because it would still be worse over there. what do you think?

 

[Kulindahr]

I say Pushaw!

He wasn't putting words in your mouth.

He was asking you a question based upon a couple of comments that you made.

He was asking for clarification, and your justification for making such comments, and you've been side-stepping the question for nearly two pages now.

Get out of your "defense" mode, and go back into your "offense" mode and read it again.

He's doing a total Bill O'Reilly, twisting my words into something I didn't say.
I never talked about murder.
And I explained my comments.

But for your information:

Barely... for the second time, this is what you said :

I don't care who comes across the border illegally, I only owe them one thing: a warning to turn back, and if they don't, a bullet between the eyes.

Words you then tried to justify by mentioning the US Constitution...
So I am asking you to quote where in the US Constitution is it advocated to murder unarmed and unthreatening people, whoever they are... otherwise your words seem revealing of ulterior motives.

He quoted me, and then made something up -- made up because there's nothing like that in the post. That's a Bill O'Reilly stunt.
What was in the post is me addressing how to handle the whole situation -- better border security, stronger penalties for being here illegally, stronger penalties for hiring illegals, proposals to improve things.

So he's asking a question that puts words in my mouth and further has nothing to do with what he quoted from me.
Which as far as I can see makes it unanswerable... and "revealing of ulterior motives".

 

[Backlum-Chaam]

I never talked about murder.

Of course you didn't. I'm sure there are lots of documented cases out there of people who have survived "a bullet between the eyes".

 

[Kurn]

i think it would be great if the southern workers could get the passes to come here and look for work and then go home like you say, and while they are here, can learn a few skills, and learn the laws, and then take them home and enrich their cities. but i also think that they wouldnt leave because it would still be worse over there. what do you think?

The great majority would love to be able to return to Mexico. The cost of living is much less. The social environment, at least in most places, is quite congenial. The weather is nice and warm most of the time.
Thousands of non-Hispanic Americans have retired to Mexico over the years. Must be something good about the place.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Of course you didn't. I'm sure there are lots of documented cases out there of people who have survived "a bullet between the eyes".

Or maybe he was just talking about "glueing" or some other form of placement.

 

[2243]

^ LOL. I've been spectating this thread, but the mental image that gave was just hilarious. Actually glueing the bullet between the eyes, "There you are..."; could even be followed with a light spank, "Now, you head on back that way... and don't come back now! Ya' hear?!"

 

[2243]

We should have separate legislation for "neighbor countries."
We should make it a low-hassle affair for law-abiding Canadians and Mexicans.
They should be able to walk into San Ysidro or Nogales or McAllen or Detroit or St Alban's, Vermont, and pick up a low-cost lookin'-for-work visa. At the same time they can review relevant labor opportunities.
We get marginal labor needs met---there are many, many.
They get work and work experience and they can return home when they want to, no hassle; and they'll be bringing not only work skills to their home barrios but ideas about life and politics as it might or might not be.

But the crude, un-American, anti-Mexican sentiments, whether direct or piggy-backed, expressed here are of course nothing I would want either Canadians or Mexicans to witness.

.............

 

[Kurn]

The great majority would love to be able to return to Mexico. The cost of living is much less. The social environment, at least in most places, is quite congenial. The weather is nice and warm most of the time.
Thousands of non-Hispanic Americans have retired to Mexico over the years. Must be something good about the place.

I thought of a useful comment that needs to be emphasized about Mexico: The worst parts of Mexico are the parts that most Americans tend to see: Tijuana, Cd. Juarez, Reynosa, etc.
There are problems in other parts of Mexico, but nothing that a little friendly local advice or common sense won't steer you away from. Same as the USA but expressed differently.
A lot of what's bad about Mexico can be traced to norteamericano bad habits. Mexicanos have bad habits, too, for sure. Some times they combine into legendary excess.
But that's not what day-to-day Mexico is about at all.