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On-Topic Is Being Counter Culture a Viable Choice for All Gay People?

Wait do you deny that gay men are more promiscuous than straight men? It isn't some homophobic rant. It is reality. Whether that reality is based on the inability to marry or simply a different viewpoint on life is unknown until we have marriage but as Maxpowr posted above the idea of promiscuity has died in his view in Mass. (At least i think that is what he stated)
 
Wait do you deny that gay men are more promiscuous than straight men? It isn't some homophobic rant. It is reality. Whether that reality is based on the inability to marry or simply a different viewpoint on life is unknown until we have marriage but as Maxpowr posted above the idea of promiscuity has died in his view in Mass. (At least i think that is what he stated)

I'm not going to get into denying or not denying with people who push things like "known reality."

What you are trying to do with the above is reinforce your own opinion in your own head. All the while completely ignoring that all the things you are so outraged that people said, you pretty much just made up I suppose in order to be outraged.

Such is life.
 
When you start equating things like promiscuity to things like gay you are entering territory well covered by homophobes. Be careful. I didn't call you any names at all - so I do find it curious that that's the first place you went.

Why might that be? Neither did anyone jump to this extreme:

" I mean seriously. You agree with Rolyo that every action you have taken has been a result of being a gay man?"

I also find it curious that this is the first place you went.

Why do I find those things curious of guru of Psychology studying with the wise men on the mountains?

When people put words in other people's mouths in order to argue with themselves, it suggests mental dissonance.

I didnt go there he did. You agreed.

I am sorry to interject in your homophobic rant, but it got too cliched, so I thought I should say something:

Being different and being counter culture are two DIFFERENT things. Nobody here is equating one with the other. But it IS easier to be counter culture when you are different, that's an undeniable fact.

As for how being gay is just one more thing about you, I am glad that this delusion works for you, because I'm sure it gives you great comfort. However, for those of us who have no problem with being different, the realization that everything you've ever done (including the need to be talking to a psychiatrist btw) is a direct result of being born with a dick that points to boys, is not in any way problematic.

I want the same things straight people (are supposed to) do - a nice place to live, someone to live there with, a stable and happy life, kids - but I do not want them in the same way that straight people do, because I did not get where I am today the way straight people did. I have posted this on a number of times, and I will post it again because it clearly bears repeating:

See he assumes I am for instance talking to a psychologist because I am a homosexual. In reality I am talking to a psychologist to work through a dramatic life change that will come from changing careers at 41.

both of you assume you know what is in my head when you have never even met me or bothered to know me. Hence you are each projecting your experiences onto me.
 
I prefer anonymity. I'm not in the closet, my friends, family, workmates and a even few associates of people who i know whom I don't know personally, know i'm gay. I don't care who knows i'm gay, but i don't care for people to know, does that make sense? Its just NOT IMPORTANT in the course of living the daily life. It only becomes important when there is an issue that involves it, other than that, i'm not Mitch the gay, i'm just Mitch. If you don't need to know, why should i have to tell you basicaly, thats my attitude. I'm sure that some celebrities take that approach because they don't want it being an issue that gets in the way of their daily lives, selfish perhaps when society could certainly use the role models, but perhaps its just not what they want.



A questionable claim i'd say for two reasons (note i'm not suggesting its untrue, just that there are likely more factors involved). Look back at ancient Greece and Rome. Plenty of people were open to others in regards to their sexual interests, even if it only existed in circles of society rather than in public. So more tolerant society has existed long before the modern rights movement came about. In Africa, as another example, there is well documented evidence that homosexual practices were entirely tolerated prior to the introduction of two well-known religions that have completely transformed the lives of gay people there.
The second reason is that, homophobic people have an ignorant impression of what gay is, and that impression is based solely on the 'glittery nail'. Essentially my point is, that narrow-minded people who meet gays who are the 'anonymous' type, can equally be credited with the gradual change in social attitude. And liberal people throughout history, whatever sexuality will have contributed in part too. I think its a little tricky to identify any subsection of gay society as being the ones to thank for the freedom we enjoy now. Its far more easy to pinpoint the subsection of humanity that is to blame for setting back a once accepted aspect of humanity (in times and places, i'm not sure of homosexuality in Asia or S.American history).

The one difference, is whom we love and have sex with. Your argument is no different than a feminist saying to other women, "we will never be like men, because we are NOT men". It's an undeniable truth, but its an undeniable irrelevent truth. In every aspect bar that one inalienable difference, we CAN be just like them, because we are ALL people. If you want to attach a relevence to who we sleep with as being of significance to our identity, you'd be taking an ironically narrow-minded view.
.
No, its just 'A' life. Straight people don't live 'straight' lives, they live ordinary lives, and some live extraordinary lives. As a gay guy who is nobody special, i'm living an ordinary life because i can, i don't need to hide who i am, so i can live just like the straight guy does. That 'straight' guy loves women, i love men, that doesn't mean we live different lives, it just means we are different people.



I disagree. I think its harder to relate to someone unless you can show the similiarities you have. It just can't work by itself to argue that your life is as valid as theirs, if they cannot see a commonality, why might they listen?.


I say we are no different to straight people (bar the one obvious), and i call myself straight-acting. I'm not hiding behind anyone. I'm being myself. That mentality exists DESPITE the gay revolution, because the prior is a truth, and the latter, a term of self-identity. You make it sound like 'camp' types or drag-queens are some kind of heroes....they're not, they're just being themselves, just like every other gay guy wants to, that includes those of us who are not 'in your face' gay (i assume you mean camp, i just had this weird image of a regular looking guy, walking down the street and pulling out an uzi whenever someone passes by, telling them to put their hands on their heads, before declaring "i am gay! OK", waiting for the stricken response "er, ye, yea, ok ok" and then calmly continuing with his journey, that's definately in-your-face lol).

And it annoys me when some gay men seem to be so dismissive of ANY type of gay guy that is different to them, as if they have a monoploy on what being gay is. I don't think that the hardship that more effeminate gay men or transexuals have had to (and still do) endure is lost on gay men in general. Its harsh, it is, but that cannot and mustn't be used as an excuse to discount the 'being true to themselves' reality of men who are not by nature effeminate or gender-confused etc. So gays who appear to be 'wanting' a heteronormative life to you, really aren't, they are just living.


I am inclined to agree with Kuli on this point. Its not that gay 'culture' is trying to be straight, its simply that culture has adapted to be inclusive of gay 'people'. I'm lost on the 'hook-up' site thing, i don't use them, so its a little hard to understand what you mean by their heteronormativity on them.

See posts on things you made up for me to say. Wash, rinse repeat.
 
I think the whole idea of "counterculture" is based on academically questionable ideas arising from socialism and sociology.

The choice is not "be myself" or "assimilate to someone else's idea of who I should be." Who else's idea? Some other person. And if that person has power to define how I live my life, the only possibility is that I also have that power.

So I will define a sphere of reduced possibilities for homophobes. They are now living in my society, under my rules. Society will contain them, and they can be marginalized and alienated until they grow up. If any of them feel bullied and suicidal because not only can they get married, but so can I, then I don't know exactly what kind of psychotherapy they need, but it isn't my responsibility to limit myself.

Basically I am talking about the ability to change and to lead society as a preferable alternative to hiding away from it, or assuming that we have to live in a straightjacket of conformity which is really only an illusion.

Bankside this is probably the most accurate statement I have read in this thread.

I may express myself inaccurately or be perceived inaccurately by the posters above. However it is the choice of how you react to life and social constraints that defines who you are. Not some preconceived notion that because I am gay it must define me entirely.

- - - Updated - - -

I prefer anonymity. I'm not in the closet, my friends, family, workmates and a even few associates of people who i know whom I don't know personally, know i'm gay. I don't care who knows i'm gay, but i don't care for people to know, does that make sense? Its just NOT IMPORTANT in the course of living the daily life. It only becomes important when there is an issue that involves it, other than that, i'm not Mitch the gay, i'm just Mitch. If you don't need to know, why should i have to tell you basicaly, thats my attitude. I'm sure that some celebrities take that approach because they don't want it being an issue that gets in the way of their daily lives, selfish perhaps when society could certainly use the role models, but perhaps its just not what they want.



A questionable claim i'd say for two reasons (note i'm not suggesting its untrue, just that there are likely more factors involved). Look back at ancient Greece and Rome. Plenty of people were open to others in regards to their sexual interests, even if it only existed in circles of society rather than in public. So more tolerant society has existed long before the modern rights movement came about. In Africa, as another example, there is well documented evidence that homosexual practices were entirely tolerated prior to the introduction of two well-known religions that have completely transformed the lives of gay people there.
The second reason is that, homophobic people have an ignorant impression of what gay is, and that impression is based solely on the 'glittery nail'. Essentially my point is, that narrow-minded people who meet gays who are the 'anonymous' type, can equally be credited with the gradual change in social attitude. And liberal people throughout history, whatever sexuality will have contributed in part too. I think its a little tricky to identify any subsection of gay society as being the ones to thank for the freedom we enjoy now. Its far more easy to pinpoint the subsection of humanity that is to blame for setting back a once accepted aspect of humanity (in times and places, i'm not sure of homosexuality in Asia or S.American history).


See posts on things you made up for me to say. Wash, rinse repeat.

Your quoting MicthyMo and attributing it to me.... very interesting.
 
It's called bad editing, Deal with it.

Scratch that, it's called bad reading comprehension from someone looking desperately to be offended.
 
Okay... so your reaction is I don't actually wanna explain myself. And I can't type very well.

I don't type very well either. but why join a conversation if you have nothing to say?

And actually it is not bad typing is is failure to comprehend what i say versus other people. If you are going to conflate what people say to make a case against me or my points then it doesnt hold water.
 
????

You are not the only person on this board, you don't want to listen to me, Jim Dandy. But please stop pretending that you didn't just invent the great majority of all of that offense you seem so intent on pursuing.
 
Did I call myself homophobic? Or delusioned because I don't accept your definition of what it is to be gay.

I think not.

In fact I take into account much more than my sexuality to define self. Apparently you are incapable or choose not to. But again you getting to be like the right wing arguments on this board. You default to attacking me instead of accurately addressing my concerns over your general view of gay men.
 
You have "concerns," about my "general view of gay men," no, what you did was wig out over your own exaggerations of things I said and even didn't say, then throw a hissy fit.

It's gotten tedious so yeah, I'm pretty much done here.
 
Okay see ya. But feel free to drop in other unsubstantiated descriptions of who i am and how I think to define your views.
 
Seems pretty simple:

The author + 1 feel that their view of gay lifestyle is the only one

If you don't subscribe - and i don't

then there's something "wrong" with you

debating that with them is ABSURD as they have no right to say so

my simple/stupid is that JH doesn't agree but doesn't begrudge - while the other two not only begrudge but are downright offensive about it

wonder how others think or are they sitting this one out

[Text: Removed by Moderator]

I play football - is that ok?

I lament the lack of gay men who like sports and look for them - so we have more in common - is that ok?

I love being gay (didn't always) but it's not the primary factor in my life

why aren't others chiming in here against the gay culture bullies?

watching ryder cup right now - is that ok?
 
JayHawk, you do have some vague point that I was too generalizing with the bolded statement. Sadly, in the context of the post it was in, it rings hollow, because the same post features the words:

Sexuality is one of the most primal, strongest driving forces in a person's life, especially in his formative years.

Notice, one of. Not the only one. But definitely among the strongest ones, and the one that colors a huge percentage of your driving impulses. You ignored my example and instead focused on one statement that - taken out of context - could be made to sound extreme. Sad, and telling that you've got things to deal with.

Oh, and by the way, sexuality doesn't mean having sex. Sexuality is attraction - both physical and romantic. You can be a chaste virgin, and your sexuality would still be the same strong driving force that it would be if you're the neighborhood tramp. To call sexuality "sex addiction" is about on the same line of thought as the "bi" guys' "girls are for love, guys are for fucking" bullshit.


Oh ,and PS - no, gay guys aren't more promiscuous than straight guys. They just have more luck getting laid.
 
I don't see where either of them are saying you should focus your entire life around your sexuality. But to hide it? To be secretive? That's no way to live.

And I'll say it very clearly... those who spend their whole life in hiding or this so called "anonymity" do absolutely nothing for the gay community. You may say you want your life to be ordinary like every other straight man, but we all know that's just not going to happen... unless you are very secretive.

And those who call themselves "straight acting" are just using cop-outs and it's demeaning to being gay as a whole. As if being "gay acting" isn't a desirable trait... I just wish people would realize they are reinforcing stereotypes inadvertently.

Your taking out of context my use of anonymity. You equate it instantly will hiding. I do not hide who I am or what i am to anyone. But to say I must be counter culture to fully embrace my sexuality I take issue with completely. Their initial reactions to me saying as such was just as yours. That I am hiding. I find nothing wrong with anyone expressing themselves however they wish to do so. However if i am comfortable expressing my sexuality through who i love and am around then I do not consider it hiding if I am simply not flamboyant or outwardly identified by any casual observer as gay. Can you walk into a crowded market and discern who is straight and who is gay immediately for each individual? Of course not. That stance does not make those folks any less relevant or substantial.
 
JayHawk, you do have some vague point that I was too generalizing with the bolded statement. Sadly, in the context of the post it was in, it rings hollow, because the same post features the words:



Notice, one of. Not the only one. But definitely among the strongest ones, and the one that colors a huge percentage of your driving impulses. You ignored my example and instead focused on one statement that - taken out of context - could be made to sound extreme. Sad, and telling that you've got things to deal with.

Oh, and by the way, sexuality doesn't mean having sex. Sexuality is attraction - both physical and romantic. You can be a chaste virgin, and your sexuality would still be the same strong driving force that it would be if you're the neighborhood tramp. To call sexuality "sex addiction" is about on the same line of thought as the "bi" guys' "girls are for love, guys are for fucking" bullshit.


Oh ,and PS - no, gay guys aren't more promiscuous than straight guys. They just have more luck getting laid.

Again perhaps I took what you said out of context but I maintained from the beginning that sexuality is one of and not entirely whereas your response made it seem as if it was the only driving force in all I do. I agree with what you stated above except that i somehow have something to deal with. I can't imagine being happier with my accomplishments and who i am. That is the essence of living with ones self.
 
Gays in Maryland are bourgeois even without marriage equality (yet). The social scene is dead, except those in the DC suburbs who go in and out of the capital. We live quiet lives like the straights, and promiscuity is pretty low slash frowned upon. Gay marriage will not assimilate us because we've always been like them. Marriage will authenticate what we already are.

Very well said. The vast majority of our brothers are in that same boat I believe. The greatest travesty is the very few who only feel if others live the way they describe is when you can feel self attained or actualized. Unfortunately they appear to be the most vocal often times.
 
This is your bigotted opinion. YOU don't identify the term, and take offence at it, so somehow those who DO self-identify with this term must be lesser gay men.
This is the key point. Those seeking to justify their own existence by denigrating others simply to feel superior when in fact they are simply much more deluded.
 
You assume a arrogant stance that because you are so must others be. That is denigrating.

And the assumption is that. however based on around ten percent of America being gay I can't say that i see that many outwardly gay men and women. 30 million outwardly expressive gay folks? Where do you see them?
 
Go onto social media and you will find thousands of self identified gay persons yet you dont see thousands in the community or club scenes. it is not scientific by any means. Just the observations of gay culture across hundreds of cities.
 
Exactly JB. And being a strong member of the gay community does not revolve around holding a protest but it could. I perceive myself as setting a excellent example of success for a gay man in the service. I have also had the example of many gay men and women serving before me. Hopefully I have affected some young sailor in some positive way for what they can become or as an example of solid leadership. Maybe I haven't. Who really knows.
 
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