Is it necessary to “come out”?

[magicdick]

Being the norm doesn't change the fact that being closeted and privacy are not the same thing. The only person who can decide to come out is the person. Everyone in one's life can know you are Queer and if one won't come out, they won't. Some will and some won't. If one insists on living in the closet, that's not my decision, and I will respect their right to decide, even as I call the closet what it is. No one does anyone any favors by pretending and inventing reasons it's not what it is.

All of us were forced in there against our will. That deserves consideration, and as long as one doesn't then go out and shit on the rest of us, or harm people with the deception, I'm not going to out them. It remains that denying your friends and family an honest space in your life, that hiding your partner and requiring them to lie for you, is going to do harm.

I don't deny that coming out is a tough decision that should be left up to the individual. I don't deny that hiding one's sexuality can do one's psyche harm. But we've strayed from the content of the original post. We've had a civil discussion and taken it further than I expected. That is good, at least for me.

You are obviously above average in intelligence, but your writing is cloudy. I'm not sure what you are saying at times. Perhaps if I read through your words several times, I might get your drift. But it is not my job to study what you write in order to understand it. (We're not talking the meaning of life, no deep philosophical issues here, unless you want to discuss "FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE!" or "ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE". I don't for several reasons, one of them being JUB is not conducive to such.)

I suggest you write your thoughts and then reread them. You'll then see what I see: muddled thought. Time to reread. And then re-write. Always edit your first draft. I do. Several times.

Peace.

 

[magicdick]

Maybe I'm missing something but I thought in 2025, "coming out" described a process of personal discovery not an event.

Fifty years ago, I knew people who threw coming out parties. In at least one case that I remember, everyone, gay or straight, ended up at a gay bar and they loved the cheap drinks and good dance music so much that they all had another coming out party the next weekend.

The younger generation seems to have moved beyond that point. They don't think of sexuality as binary. Unless they live in a particularly backwards part of the US or they are from an extremely conservative family, they just tell the few people who need to know and then they live their lives openly and unashamed.

And that's really what is at the heart of the last few posts- the question of who needs to know and whether feeling ashamed and what the definition of "needs to know" and whether concealing one's sexual orientation is about being ashamed of it?

Unless they live in a particularly backwards part of the US... There's the rub: Much of America is "particularly backwards". Look who's in the Oval Office.

If your words reflect reality then there is hope. I just don't know enough to know their truth.

 

[KaraBulut]

Unless they live in a particularly backwards part of the US... There's the rub: Much of America is "particularly backwards". Look who's in the Oval Office.

If your words reflect reality then there is hope. I just don't know enough to know their truth.

I wouldn't say, "much".

There are some areas in the US where there's a disproportionate influence in socially conservative religions. With the exception of places like Utah, those are also the same areas that are rapidly depopulating, as kids graduate from high school and move away for better economic opportunities. That shift to urban spaces is what accounts for social attitudes changing rapidly.

The point at which I think we crossed the rubicon was when I met people in the active military who were open in their platoon and with their command. For example, at 16:00 in the video below, a commander leaving a military base thanks several people, including his husband.

Fifteen years ago, I was a moderator in a forum that had a large number of LGBT minors. During that time, I saw a big change in how kids came out to their families. There were cases where there was a chance that a family would financially punish a gay child but for the most part, the parents weren't shocked when a kid came out as gay or lesbian. There was also much more acceptance of "pansexuality" and fluidity, where there was more openness about experimentation. The kids knew other gay kids in their school, so there wasn't as much of a feeling that they were unusual or "a freak". In the course of a decade in that forum, the forum became more about dealing with normal teenage issues and less about "coming out". the The controversy also shifted from L/G/B and more toward T, previewing a lot of the controversey that we're currently having over trans issues.

Because this forum has more older members, we do have more of a pre-2000 attitude toward LGBT issues. The kids born since 2000 have grown up with LGBT characters on all of their TV shows and it is not rare for kids to be openly gay while still in public school. It's really not that big of an issue for them. And I think we could learn from their openness and acceptance.

There is a new wave of social conservatism brewing in the background- much like what we saw in the late 1970s and 1980s. So far, that conservatism seems more focused upon women's role in society, and less about gay/lesbian people.

 

[TX-Beau]

I don't deny that coming out is a tough decision that should be left up to the individual. I don't deny that hiding one's sexuality can do one's psyche harm. But we've strayed from the content of the original post. We've had a civil discussion and taken it further than I expected. That is good, at least for me.

You are obviously above average in intelligence, but your writing is cloudy. I'm not sure what you are saying at times. Perhaps if I read through your words several times, I might get your drift. But it is not my job to study what you write in order to understand it. (We're not talking the meaning of life, no deep philosophical issues here, unless you want to discuss "FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE!" or "ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE". I don't for several reasons, one of them being JUB is not conducive to such.)

I suggest you write your thoughts and then reread them. You'll then see what I see: muddled thought. Time to reread. And then re-write. Always edit your first draft. I do. Several times.

Peace.

No, there's nothing muddled, and you have not pointed out where you are so very confused. The tags on my avatar are pointless to this discussion and just look like you're making some passive-aggressive accusation.

It's pretty simple, actually. If you don't want to hear, you won't listen. That is so very common.

It's not my job to baby-talk anonymous people on the Internet, and if you don't want to hear it, no one is asking you to engage.

 

[TX-Beau]

I wouldn't say, "much".

There are some areas in the US where there's a disproportionate influence in socially conservative religions. With the exception of places like Utah, those are also the same areas that are rapidly depopulating, as kids graduate from high school and move away for better economic opportunities. That shift to urban spaces is what accounts for social attitudes changing rapidly.

The point at which I think we crossed the rubicon was when I met people in the active military who were open in their platoon and with their command. For example, at 16:00 in the video below, a commander leaving a military base thanks several people, including his husband.

Fifteen years ago, I was a moderator in a forum that had a large number of LGBT minors. During that time, I saw a big change in how kids came out to their families. There were cases where there was a chance that a family would financially punish a gay child but for the most part, the parents weren't shocked when a kid came out as gay or lesbian. There was also much more acceptance of "pansexuality" and fluidity, where there was more openness about experimentation. The kids knew other gay kids in their school, so there wasn't as much of a feeling that they were unusual or "a freak". In the course of a decade in that forum, the forum became more about dealing with normal teenage issues and less about "coming out". the The controversy also shifted from L/G/B and more toward T, previewing a lot of the controversey that we're currently having over trans issues.

Because this forum has more older members, we do have more of a pre-2000 attitude toward LGBT issues. The kids born since 2000 have grown up with LGBT characters on all of their TV shows and it is not rare for kids to be openly gay while still in public school. It's really not that big of an issue for them. And I think we could learn from their openness and acceptance.

There is a new wave of social conservatism brewing in the background- much like what we saw in the late 1970s and 1980s. So far, that conservatism seems more focused upon women's role in society, and less about gay/lesbian people.

They also don't hide.

 

[TX-Beau]

They don't have any analogue to thinking they shouldn't be as open as straight people. It still cost them though, in a lot of places they still get the shit. Not just Utah.

 

[KaraBulut]

They also don't hide.

More important, they don't have to.

 

[TX-Beau]

More important, they don't have to.

More like they don't want to. My niece has been bullied for being a lesbian since at least middle school, in Austin, and her friends have similar stories. The difference is that they don't feel ashamed of who they are, fight back, support each other, and at least most of their parents are supportive.

Utah is hell for Queer people, but it's no picnic in the South, or the plains either. Outside Urban areas in California can also be stifling, and I suspect it will get worse over the next four years. Let's all hope the progress we made will stick.

 

[KaraBulut]

They don't have any analogue to thinking they shouldn't be as open as straight people. It still cost them though, in a lot of places they still get the shit. Not just Utah.

I used Utah as an exception, not because they are still hostile to homosexuals- LDS has relaxed a bit on the issue. It's more of an example of a conservative area of the US that is increasing in population but remaining conservative.

I've seen a big evolution in the workplace. It used to be that it was a whispered conversation about a coworker being gay or lesbian. Over the course of the past 30 years, there's much more visibility and no one bats an eye when a male coworker talks about a husband or a female coworker talks about a wife. I can't think of a single case of anyone "coming out" in the past 10 years in the way that people did in the 1980s or 1990s. I've also been in job interviews, where the candidate talked about their same-sex partner which would have never happened 40 years ago.

 

[KaraBulut]

More like they don't want to. My niece has been bullied for being a lesbian since at least middle school, in Austin, and her friends have similar stories. The difference is that they don't feel ashamed of who they are, fight back, support each other, and at least most of their parents are supportive.

I'd contrast that with the norm when we were in school and the kids were bullied on the presumption that they "acted gay".

I remember the first time I went out to a gay bar after graduating high school and I saw at least half a dozen of my fellow graduates there. They would have never stepped into a gay bar before graduation for fear of being outed.

The assholes and bullies are unlikely to go away completely but it is a big change that someone can openly identify as LGBT before graduating from high school. That's a really important change in society.

 

[TX-Beau]

I used Utah as an exception, not because they are still hostile to homosexuals- LDS has relaxed a bit on the issue. It's more of an example of a conservative area of the US that is increasing in population but remaining conservative.

I've seen a big evolution in the workplace. It used to be that it was a whispered conversation about a coworker being gay or lesbian. Over the course of the past 30 years, there's much more visibility and no one bats an eye when a male coworker talks about a husband or a female coworker talks about a wife. I can't think of a single case of anyone "coming out" in the past 10 years in the way that people did in the 1980s or 1990s. I've also been in job interviews, where the candidate talked about their same-sex partner which would have never happened 40 years ago.

I agree progress has been made, Utah IS hell for Queer people - the Mormons talk out one side of their mouth about it, but if you listen to the people who grew up in that church, their stories are less than rosy. But that's religion. I hope Utah will get better as the percentage of Mormons declines. Small Town Texas, outside the cities, and in the majority of the South being a gay kid is no longer likely to get the shit kicked out of you but it's still the subject of those whispers.

Which is where we get to what's happening in the country as a whole, they came for the Trans people and no one stood up for them, now Drag Queens are being banned, at least two cases are working their way up the courts to challenge Obergefell is someone going to stand up for us?

I hope so, I hope the progress is not just a blip. It wouldn't pe prudent however to assume that and not pay attention.

 

[Biggijstar]

No if you have set a great life and are happy why come out. People don't realize that coming out actually ruins lives

 

[magicdick]

No if you have set a great life and are happy why come out. People don't realize that coming out actually ruins lives

Probably the best advice yet. Sadly there are many who don't like living secret lives. But, as you say, "...great life and happy...", why ruin a good thing?

 

[Biggijstar]

Probably the best advice yet. Sadly there are many who don't like living secret lives. But, as you say, "...great life and happy...", why ruin a good thing?

Exactly gays want everyone to be out and proud but forget some people just like being private

 

[TX-Beau]

Exactly gays want everyone to be out and proud but forget some people just like being private

"Gays" want to live lives where they are not required to lie to their friends and family, and are not required to hide from and lie to yours. "Gays" you don't know generally don't care about the decisions you make for yourself. Only when you start demanding deception do the "Gays" get pissy.

No one cares about your closet, unless you start fucking with the rest of us. As I said above, no one is going to bother outing you or indeed even noticing you're there. Hiding is like that.

 

[firsttimeagain]

It's possible, sure. It's what guys did -- when they could find each other -- for centuries. And there's nothing wrong with that.
(Some queer people will disagree and insist that you have to be public, but I don't think there are many of those here at JUB.)




Well, that's the thing. If you're in a serious relationship, eventually other people in your life will figure that out. You ought to be able to be just as casual about it as straight people are about their spouses: some mention it a lot, others barely at all, but they never think much about it; they just do it.

What would be bad would be making deliberate efforts to hide your relationship, or, worse, actively deceive people by telling them you're seeing a woman. That's a miserable way to have to live.

Years ago I might have hid it from everyone, but now I’m in a different place. I will never tell the world because I don’t think it is necessary. However, if I find the right guy and we are seeing each other regularly, I’m not to hide it. People will know and I will not deny it. The people that have a problem with it will just have to learn to except it. I’m not going to worry about that like I used to. Accepting who I am has really changed my mind set with everything. The day I admitted to myself.that I am gay just lifted that weight off my shoulders.

Though I am not completely out of the closet to the world, I am coming out a little at a time. It’s been a long process and a long time coming. I wish I would have years ago, but I can’t go back. It’s part of my journey. I know it’s never going away, I tried to suppress it or run from it thinking it would go away or I would grow out of those desires. It’s not going away and I don’t want it to. I want to be who I am and I am gay. I want to share that with someone special.

I want more than sex, I want a lasting relationship. But, realistically, I’m sure I will make some mistakes along the way. Relationships can be difficult and finding that special someone to grow with will take time. I’m fully aware of that.

So, I might have to strike out a few times in the process. Hopefully I can find good safe sex to gain that experience that I so desire. Then hopefully it will lead to that relationship I really prefer.

No, I will not try to hide or purposely deceive others. Especially trying to make others think I’m seeing a girl. That not going to happen. I’m past seeing girls. I been there and it’s not what I want ever again. Everyone will know without me telling them that I’m seeing a guy. I think I will be OK with that now because I’ve fully excepted that I’m gay and I’m not going back. Not going to live that way. So, I’m not hiding who I am any longer. Though I may not tell everyone, if they ask, I will tell them yes I’m having a relationship with… hopefully they will be cool with it. I’m not going to worry about it. Thanks for your input. It is very helpful as my journey continues. I’m looking forward to being me…

 

[72-Jay]

I don't see it being necessary, but rather something each individual guy should decide for himself (its also the fact it doesn't need to be like a lightswitch where its totally out or totally closeted, but rather a matter of "how out...").

As for me: I'm for the most part not out, but not totally closeted either. I'll readily admit I support gay rights & such, but as a general thing I wouldn't admit to being bi (that would be reserved for a *very* limited people). I also do go to pridefest which yeah there is some risk of your life going to such events... but I enjoy going so a risk taken (and there is an advantage to being a dull boring individual that doesn't stand out in a crowd)

If I ever had a boyfriend (something I'd quite like to have, but the chances are very unlikely of it happening) ... that I'd have to keep quiet, for family/neighbors/etc he's "just a friend" (one they would never meet)
Really for a relationship, I'd more want something more along the line of cuddle-buddy or "relationship based on love, not sex"

 

[firsttimeagain]

I don't see it being necessary, but rather something each individual guy should decide for himself (its also the fact it doesn't need to be like a lightswitch where its totally out or totally closeted, but rather a matter of "how out...").

As for me: I'm for the most part not out, but not totally closeted either. I'll readily admit I support gay rights & such, but as a general thing I wouldn't admit to being bi (that would be reserved for a *very* limited people). I also do go to pridefest which yeah there is some risk of your life going to such events... but I enjoy going so a risk taken (and there is an advantage to being a dull boring individual that doesn't stand out in a crowd)

If I ever had a boyfriend (something I'd quite like to have, but the chances are very unlikely of it happening) ... that I'd have to keep quiet, for family/neighbors/etc he's "just a friend" (one they would never meet)
Really for a relationship, I'd more want something more along the line of cuddle-buddy or "relationship based on love, not sex"

I am by far not out. Though I am making progress and I am coming out more than I have ever been. That doesn’t mean I’m advertising it to everyone. I am masculine and I’m looking for masculine. I’m not interested in walking in parades or hanging out at priceless or whatever. So, I guess I’ll never be fully out.

But, I’m more open and surly more out than I’ve ever been in terms of looking for a guy. My radar is always out and if I am interested I will surely not let an opportunity pass me by.

The few apps and sites I’ve tried have thus far been a waste of time and money for the most part. But, I am OUT on those platforms. So, others might see me that I might not otherwise come out to, but that’s part of it. I’m not ashamed of where I am. As a matter of fact, I’m really relieved and super excited that I’m actively looking.

For those that don’t need to know, I’m not telling them. If they find out in time, the so be it. I love where I am. It’s exciting to think about the possibilities that are to come.

I understand the cuddle buddy and love part which is why I’ve accepted that I’m gay. I do want more than sex, but I do want sex a lot. Lol. That’s obviously the reason I’m 100% attracted to men. Yes I’ve tried relationships with women. But, I know without a shadow of a doubt that I’m not attracted to women in that way. I guess it took those experiences to make me realize what I really want. I do not desire sex with females.

Seems like it was too complicated trying to hide behind that. I would be fine keeping it quiet, but I would also not hide it now. I’m just more open now to let it be what it is. If I find that special guy, people are going to know without us tell them. I will be fine with that when I cross that bridge. Thanks again…

 

[hughie63]

I am by far not out. Though I am making progress and I am coming out more than I have ever been. That doesn’t mean I’m advertising it to everyone. I am masculine and I’m looking for masculine. I’m not interested in walking in parades or hanging out at priceless or whatever. So, I guess I’ll never be fully out.

But, I’m more open and surly more out than I’ve ever been in terms of looking for a guy. My radar is always out and if I am interested I will surely not let an opportunity pass me by.

The few apps and sites I’ve tried have thus far been a waste of time and money for the most part. But, I am OUT on those platforms. So, others might see me that I might not otherwise come out to, but that’s part of it. I’m not ashamed of where I am. As a matter of fact, I’m really relieved and super excited that I’m actively looking.

For those that don’t need to know, I’m not telling them. If they find out in time, the so be it. I love where I am. It’s exciting to think about the possibilities that are to come.

I understand the cuddle buddy and love part which is why I’ve accepted that I’m gay. I do want more than sex, but I do want sex a lot. Lol. That’s obviously the reason I’m 100% attracted to men. Yes I’ve tried relationships with women. But, I know without a shadow of a doubt that I’m not attracted to women in that way. I guess it took those experiences to make me realize what I really want. I do not desire sex with females.

Seems like it was too complicated trying to hide behind that. I would be fine keeping it quiet, but I would also not hide it now. I’m just more open now to let it be what it is. If I find that special guy, people are going to know without us tell them. I will be fine with that when I cross that bridge. Thanks again…

I'm more likely to lie about my age than my sexual preference! Which isn't something I'm proud of but it's a time of life thing.

 

[firsttimeagain]

Exactly gays want everyone to be out and proud but forget some people just like being private

Looking back to when I started this thread…I’ve really grown a lot. I’ve learned a lot. My desires are still the same as they have always been. But, I’ve gone from saying I’m curious to realizing I’m way more than curious. I’m gay and that admission to myself is such a huge change in everything. I’ve got a long way to go, but I’m on my way. Obviously, There are varying ideas from different guys. From gay guys wanting everyone to be out and proud to those others that may want that privacy, but they are still gay.

In the business world, I don’t care who are and what you do privately as long as you take care of business in a professional manner. None of it matters except business. So in business, I will never let my personal desires get in the way of my business and my career.

So, I understand the privacy thing too. I guess I’m in between. I think people will know as time moves forward. I’m now totally OK with that and don’t care what other people think. That too is a big change in my mind set. I’m really relieved and very comfortable with my progress. I guess I will see how things develop as time keeps moving forward.

I do like my privacy, but I am more open and out than when I started. Once I finally find a partner and start having sex and maybe developing a relationship, I’m sure my perspective will change further. One day at a time…

I can’t wait to have that new perspective to share. Thank you all for engaging in this conversation, it has helped me tremendously.