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Is wrong for parents to assume their child is heterosexual?

Here's another approach to this. It may seem like an unrelated example, but the principles are still the same.

My mother always told me that I can grow up to be whatever I want and that she would support me in my attempts. At the same time, she also made the assumption that I wanted to be an artist because I always loved to draw and paint. Here's the thing - I really don't want to be an artist but I've never told her that.

Should I be resentful towards my mother and claim that she was pressuring me to be something that I didn't want to be or should I instead realize that she is a human being and made an innocent assumption based on her observations and understand that what she said originally - that she would support me no matter what - still holds true?

I understand that younger people will usually choose the former, but as they grow older they should be rational enough to see the latter.
 
Here's another approach to this. It may seem like an unrelated example, but the principles are still the same.

My mother always told me that I can grow up to be whatever I want and that she would support me in my attempts. At the same time, she also made the assumption that I wanted to be an artist because I always loved to draw and paint. Here's the thing - I don't want to be an artist.

Should I be resentful towards my mother and claim that she was pressuring me to be something that I didn't want to be or should I instead realize that she is a human being and made an innocent assumption based on her observations and understand that what she said originally - that she would support me no matter what - still holds true?

It is one thing to be understanding and recognize that there was no harm. It's another thing entirely to shrug it off and ignore the bigger picture which is that she shouldn't be doing that in the first place. No one should. That is the thing. Their true intentions behind the assumptions don't matter. They shouldn't make them. It's a part of the problem. Fuck making excuses for people you know? I'm liberal, but I ain't that liberal.
 
It is one thing to be understanding and recognize that there was no harm. It's another thing entirely to shrug it off and ignore the bigger picture which is that she shouldn't be doing that in the first place. No one should. That is the thing. Their true intentions behind the assumptions don't matter. They shouldn't make them. It's a part of the problem. Fuck making excuses for people you know? I'm liberal, but I ain't that liberal.

People make assumptions. You do it, I do it. It's human nature and is unavoidable. It isn't "right" but it should only become a problem when it reaches the point where one person treats another person as a lesser human being. If a parent made the assumption that their child was straight and then refused to accept them when they came out of the closet it would be a problem, but if they made the assumption and did accept their child then that's something that the child has to deal with as they mature or they are just going to end up resenting the people that love them.

If you want to get all technical, then the child would also be making an assumption. They would be assuming that their parents are pressuring them and would not accept them just because their parents made the assumption that they were straight.
 
People make assumtpions. You do it, I do it. It's human nature and is unavoidable. It isn't "right" but it should only become a problem when it reaches the point where one person treats another person as a lesser human being. If a parent made the assumption that their child was straight and then refused to accept them when they came out of the closet it would be a problem, but if they made the assumption and did accept their child then that's something that the child has to deal with as they mature or they are just going to end up resenting the people that love them.

If you want to get all technical, then the child would also be making an assumption. They would be assuming that their parents are pressuring them and would not accept them just because their parents made the assumption that they were straight.

Could be that the people who just so happen to make assumptions impress upon their children that making assumptions is the right way to do things and those kids who are not what they assume their parents want also assume those parents will not accept them and they have nothing to look forward to except being disappointments to the ones they love.

So I'll say it again.
You keep saying it isn't right, at what point does it become wrong?
 
If you can't handle basic assumptions just jump off a cliff already b/c you won't make it far in life. This is the basic social aspect of all human life..

I hate dancing.. yet I was pressured to go to prom and school dances unintentionally. I was pressured to go to college although that may not be my wish.. there is social pressure in every single f'ing aspect of life.
It is just that you are gay that you all are focusing on this one scenario. There are millions of scenarios in which children may face stress and strain b/c they feel compelled to be something they are not.

But part of life is growing into yourself. The best a parent can do is be supportive of whatever choices you make.. it is not up to them to try to restructure the way society works.

A.K.A Kill yourself? Did you just tell people who are experiencing the anguish of the closet to kill their selves?

And whose job is it to fix the parts of society that are broken?
 
It isn't "right" but it should only become a problem

And if those assumptions has the child treating themselves as the lesser human, it's the job of the child to "get over" the "insignificant things" and realize the parent may or may not be accepting? That's an awful lot of bullshit for a child to handle...
 
I've said my peace and anything further would just be beating a dead horse, but I'll sum it all up for you:

Assumptions are unavoidable in life. If your parents assume you are straight but will still accept you for who you are regardless, then you should quit stressing yourself out over nothing and be grateful that you have loving, open minded parents. You may feel stressed about this when you are younger since children don't think as rationally as adults, but you should be able to move on from it once you mature. If you can't then that's a problem that you manifested within yourself due to your own insecurities about your sexuality and is not your parents' fault.
 
People make assumptions. You do it, I do it. It's human nature and is unavoidable. It isn't "right" but it should only become a problem when it reaches the point where one person treats another person as a lesser human being. If a parent made the assumption that their child was straight and then refused to accept them when they came out of the closet it would be a problem, but if they made the assumption and did accept their child then that's something that the child has to deal with as they mature or they are just going to end up resenting the people that love them.

If you want to get all technical, then the child would also be making an assumption. They would be assuming that their parents are pressuring them and would not accept them just because their parents made the assumption that they were straight.

The point is that it isn't right. Like you said. And since it isn't right then why side with it just because you understand the thinking behind it. It seems like that is what is going on here.

And don't forget that we are talking about children here. It is the job of the parent to set a strong foundation for their child and though they could do far worse than assume their child will be straight that does not mean that they should be assuming it or that it's okay. Especially on a subject as heavy as sexuality because it can be very impactful.

I'm done with this though. Thanks for the conversation.
 
They aren't broken.. it's the way society works. There is nothing wrong with assuming what is 90% probable. That in no way is making a moral judgement about the situation. You want to change this one scenario.. but if we change every scenario that is similar that we would experience a complete transformation of society that I'm not sure would be for the better.

And I'm saying if you can't handle such a simple aspect of life.. if you can't live with the fact that people might assume you are straight...then you might as well stop there, b/c life gets incredibly harder than that.

Tell that to the kids that killed themselves because they couldn't see another way to deal with society not being broken...

Tell them you aren't making a moral judgement about the situation.

I don't want to just change this one scenario, it just happens to be what THIS thread is about.

And that transformed society hasn't happened so one can't say if it's better or worse.

I can handle people assuming I'm straight. I can't handle the bullshit that comes with it when they find out I'm not.

For such a simple aspect of life, it must be something that it's the common denominator for this message board. Or could it be that you wish this aspect was just a simple thing?
 
Well, can't it go both ways?

Is it not also possible that a gay couple could assume that they're child could grow up to be gay as well?

I mean, yeah, it sounds like something right-wing pundits yell out by saying gay couples create gay children; but if we're making the argument that heterosexual couples are hoping for straight children, then there's a good chance there's a few gay parents hoping that their children are also gay.

Ideally, a child could be raised sexually neutral; with parents explaining everything to them when they have the 'birds and the bees' talk; not just talking about how boys and girls are different, and how they couple up, but also how some boys like boys and some girls like girls.
 
i have two sons, one 29 and one 12. the older one knows about my sexuality the younger one does not. I told both my boys that it would not matter to me who they love as long as they were safe and happy. i know that if someone had told me that i would probably not felt like i had to get married, but then i would not have my sons, so i guess it has been worth it after all.
 
Well, can't it go both ways?

Is it not also possible that a gay couple could assume that they're child could grow up to be gay as well?

I mean, yeah, it sounds like something right-wing pundits yell out by saying gay couples create gay children; but if we're making the argument that heterosexual couples are hoping for straight children, then there's a good chance there's a few gay parents hoping that their children are also gay.

Ideally, a child could be raised sexually neutral; with parents explaining everything to them when they have the 'birds and the bees' talk; not just talking about how boys and girls are different, and how they couple up, but also how some boys like boys and some girls like girls.

While the gay couple you suggest may exist, one would hope they would know the sexual orientation of their child isn't something to be hoped for one way or the other. It's going to be what it is. IF there were ways to mold and pressure an orientation die hard homophobes would be lined up to learn the technique.

Sexual neutrality and gender neutrality are unavoidable but the solution isn't exclusivity of one or the other but inclusivity of it all. When all sides and angles are fairly represented and equal then nature will take it's course in the individual. Imagine that.
 
No. You have missed the root of the issue, and I admit that I did too. Before I read this thread in its entirety I was a little confused by the question. My response was going to be like so many others in here, "No, it's not wrong because that is the majority." But after reading what SayMyName and Elvin have said (among others), I have a much better understanding.

It is understandable that a parent would assume that their child will be straight, but it is not right and it's definitely wrong to pressure them--in any way--to believe they are or should be straight whether that is the intention or not. I think we can all agree that if we were to have a gay child we would love him/her regardless but the topic at hand is how we raise them before their sexuality is revealed to us. And to raise them with the assumption that they will be straight because it's "natural", "easier", or "better" is just wrong. And I can recognize how it's a part of the core of problematic thinking about homosexuality.

Thanks for the enlightenment guys. That's why I love this place sometimes.



I don't. I'm not here to argue or be right. Give me a different perspective that makes sense and hell I'll admit I got it wrong.

Thanks man. It's nice to know some of the discussion in this thread has actually made a difference. That's great. Too bad other people come on here with the same circular arguments - guess it's just totally over their heads. Wonder if it is a coincidence that they both happen to be bisexual and have access to straight privilege.
 
Wonder if it is a coincidence that they both happen to be bisexual and have access to straight privilege.

Oh so I don't have an opinion worth considering? Bisexual men are not capable of having some of the same experiences as gay men when it comes to how the world views their sexuality?

I hate it when people bring that up. It makes bisexual men feel unwelcome.
 
Oh so I'm not allowed to have an opinion worth considering? Bisexual men are not capable of having the same experiences as gay men when it comes to how the world views their sexuality?

I hate it when people bring that up. It makes bisexual men feel unwelcome.

I'm not trying to be biphobic. I'm just wondering if maybe that has something to do with the different viewpoint.
 
People make assumptions. You do it, I do it. It's human nature and is unavoidable. It isn't "right" but it should only become a problem when it reaches the point where one person treats another person as a lesser human being.

You have to like a thread where a person arguing against assumptions freely posts:

I guess people just have different opinions on this. You have gay people that want full and true equality, and then we have you uncle tom fucking faggots.

And this

Too bad other people come on here with the same circular arguments - guess it's just totally over their heads. Wonder if it is a coincidence that they both happen to be bisexual and have access to straight privilege.

I guess it’s okay to be homophobic and biphobic if you are arguing for equality. Funny though he doesn’t seem to care he is also using circular arguments.

So many fucking gay uncle toms in our community.

But I guess it’s okay for him.


In all fairness I know consistency is hard for some people.
 
You have to like a thread where a person arguing against assumptions freely posts:



And this



I guess it’s okay to be homophobic and biphobic if you are arguing for equality. Funny though he doesn’t seem to care he is also using circular arguments.



But I guess it’s okay for him.


In all fairness I know consistency is hard for some people.

Way to take everything I said and quote it out of context and make me look like a bad guy. You're pathetic. You're an ideologically lazy poster. I specifically stated that I wasn't trying to be biphobic but pointing out that the attitudes that perpetuate homophobia and heterosexism in this thread, those attitudes are being defended primarily by bisexual guys. I simply raised the question of if that's a coincidence or not since they still have access to straight privilege, and they need to own that privilege. You can look through my posting history because I've specifically defend bisexuals numerous times on this board, most recently in the thread about pride when someone was saying that bisexuals, especially if partnered to an opposite sex partner at the time, should not come to pride. I specifically defended bisexuals. But of course when you take all of my posts out of context like that you make it look bad. And if you're offended about the 'faggot' comment, as I said earlier, I was using that self-consciously in order to highlight that this kind of thinking is what will always make us be seen as faggots - the uncle tom thinking. Interesting how you came into this thread just to pick a fight with me and not actually weigh in on the topic at hand - I think everyone that has read it knows who has had a more convincing and eloquent and less circular argument. And it's not the heterosexist sympathizers.
 
Way to take everything I said and quote it out of context and make me look like a bad guy. You're pathetic. You're an ideologically lazy poster. I specifically stated that I wasn't trying to be biphobic but pointing out that the attitudes that perpetuate homophobia and heterosexism in this thread, those attitudes are being defended primarily by bisexual guys. I simply raised the question of if that's a coincidence or not since they still have access to straight privilege, and they need to own that privilege. You can look through my posting history because I've specifically defend bisexuals numerous times on this board, most recently in the thread about pride when someone was saying that bisexuals, especially if partnered to an opposite sex partner at the time, should not come to pride. I specifically defended bisexuals. But of course when you take all of my posts out of context like that you make it look bad. And if you're offended about the 'faggot' comment, as I said earlier, I was using that self-consciously in order to highlight that this kind of thinking is what will always make us be seen as faggots - the uncle tom thinking. Interesting how you came into this thread just to pick a fight with me and not actually weigh in on the topic at hand - I think everyone that has read it knows who has had a more convincing and eloquent and less circular argument. And it's not the heterosexist sympathizers.



I read every post in this thread.

I didn’t take you out of context, I simply quoted you. People can press the icon to see your context.

Just because you say you’re not phobic doesn’t mean you are. After all I have never heard of someone being phobic admitting too it. By my recollection the bi and gay numbers for their side was about the same. The bi guy was just more vocal. Also just because you defend someone sometimes, doesn’t make you any less of a phobe. It just means you take more of an issue on another topic.

Furthermore, I’m not bi.

Did you ever stop to think though the reason the pluralsexuals see it different is because they still experienced it the same as you? You turned the thread into a thread about assumptions, all the while assuming it’s only being seen different because they’re not gay.


Further still you talk about the younger generation having a hard time being themselves because of assumptions. How do you think it would make them feel to see an open gay man call another queer man a faggot in a derogatory way just because he is pissed? You’re talking out both sides of your mouth.


This thread is a joke.

You want to talk about context? Talk about it with the GLBT suicide rates that were posted. It is assumed all of those that killed themselves only did it because they were GLBT. No x-factors are shown.

The reason I didn't state my opinion was I figured it would be obvious, but also I figured there would be zero chance of having a real discussion.


I think everyone that has read it knows who has had a more convincing and eloquent and less circular argument. And it's not the heterosexist sympathizers.


Funny you say that. I read it and I see it their way. Also eloquent doesn’t equal right. Your blinded by your biases.


I was raised my mother and her girlfriend. I was raised in a gender neutral home. The pressure was still there, still constant and never ending. Kids worry no matter what you do. Your argument did not convince me at all. In fact it helped me see it their way. When I started to read the thread I was leaning towards your argument, but your argument helped change that theirs.


For someone so against people assuming you should stop it yourself. Calling people names does nothing, but show how little ground you have to stand on. Assuming people are “heterosexist sympathizers” makes you look like a fool. And calling fellow GLBT people faggots just because you disagree shows just how petty, petulant, and hateful you are.
 
Heterosexuality is normal though. It is a common occurrence that conforms to an expected norm (standard pattern of behavior for the purpose of reproduction), about 90% of our species in fact.

Homosexuality is also normal. It too is a natural occurrence and perfectly healthy, it is just not an expected norm.

They're normal by different definitions. lucky7 referenced it, but never specified the differences in definition...and honestly he shouldn't have to anyway. I don't see why people didn't automatically recognize what he was saying...but you know, us gays and all...hypersensitive folk. ..|


Where did you get the stupid idea heterosexuality is normal? Animal kingdom proves the contrary.

http://bradcorban.wordpress.com/2009/06/
 
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