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Kiss-In Planned at Mormon Temple

Man...that just fucking blows my mind that someone can reject a kid because they are gay, or go to gay weddings/have gay friends but not support them. fuck...

But didn't your parents, who are Mormon, support you? If so, why do you think they're different? What worked? Do other Mormons in your community feel the same way, are they supportive too? I'm definitely curious about your situation, b/c it might be useful for the bigger picture.
 
I don't think I'm confusing anything, but I guess we'll see.

I suspect that you're one of these people who thinks that the end; harmony and equality is also the means of getting our rights.

The mere existence of propositon 8 means that that approach didn't work.
 
I suspect that you're one of these people who thinks that the end; harmony and equality is also the means of getting our rights.

The mere existence of proposition 8 means that that approach didn't work.

No. But I also don't let my emotions get the best of me and I look at the broad picture to determine what works best. I'm all about strategy. What will help us, what won't work, what we should learn from our past attempts, how to best use our resources, etc. It's a cost benefit analysis. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's like the folks who wrote letters and spent money arguing that company owners should fire all their Mormon employees. Yeah, that's stupid, b/c it will never happen. Why? B/c it would be a Title VII violation. Don't fight a battle you cannot possibly win. I mean really, does banging your head against a wall over and over again help at all? No.

Further, why do some people attack my perceived personality instead of my arguments. Come up w/ why the kiss in will work, and specify what you expect it to accomplish, instead of stating that I'm wrong b/c my personality sucks. Next, someone will point out my spelling and grammar errors or will make a snotty remark about my profession. Sheesh!
 
Man...that just fucking blows my mind that someone can reject a kid because they are gay, or go to gay weddings/have gay friends but not support them. fuck...

Which is why trying to be nice to them will NEVER work. We have to hit them hard in the pocketbook and make them SCARED to fight us.

We can't appeal to their humanity.. they have none. We can only appeal to their sense of greed, and if they might lose their businesses, they won't be making donations.
 
My husband was a Mormon. He believed in what he was doing. He did his mission work etc., and he was progressing up the Mormon ladder, (I forgot what his title was). Anyway, as he progressed and met other Mormons in his 'group', he realized that they 'hated' gays and lesbians and preached against them!

In the end, it forced him to come out of the closet and be who he is! And some time later, he left the church due to their unbending hatred toward nonstraight people!
 
No. But I also don't let my emotions get the best of me and I look at the broad picture to determine what works best. I'm all about strategy. What will help us, what won't work, what we should learn from our past attempts, how to best use our resources, etc. It's a cost benefit analysis. Nothing more, nothing less.

Softness won't work. That I garantee. LGBTs need to come together and put them under pressure.
 
No. But I also don't let my emotions get the best of me and I look at the broad picture to determine what works best. I'm all about strategy. What will help us, what won't work, what we should learn from our past attempts, how to best use our resources, etc. It's a cost benefit analysis. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's like the folks who wrote letters and spent money arguing that company owners should fire all their Mormon employees. Yeah, that's stupid, b/c it will never happen. Why? B/c it would be a Title VII violation. Don't fight a battle you cannot possibly win. I mean really, does banging your head against a wall over and over again help at all? No.

Further, why do some people attack my perceived personality instead of my arguments. Come up w/ why it will work, not why my view on life sucks.


Unfortunately I think it's because my parents have always been odd Mormons to begin with. My mom is pro-choice. And while they were weirded out at first by my sexuality I think they kind of expected I was gay - at least my mom did. The mormon pop. in my town is extremely small. They don't approve, but I don't think they say much about it. Hell, my town in general is small, but no one has harrassed me yet.
 
And I say unfortunately, because I have no special forumula for making mormons less antigay :(
 
There is no special way to make anyone feel less anti-gay but going to them and saying your religion was founded by a fraud and is ill conceived, they lack humanity and only understand greed, and so on is not going to do anything more than reinforce what they already believe.
 
Softness won't work. That I guarantee. LGBTs need to come together and put them under pressure.

Why? Yes, this faith donated a lot of money to hinder gay rights, however, they are a minority religion. They have less money than the Catholic Church and less numbers. They are less of a threat than most other religions. They are also one of the least likely to change. So, why focus on them?

Why take our fight up w/ any religion? How will that help us to obtain equal rights? If these people are really doing it for GOD, you won't be able to intimidate them. You won't be able to stop them. People have died for GOD, a mere kiss in and/or boycott isn't going to change that.

I still think it's prudent to infiltrate churches and make them get to know us, but I'm not that focused on them. Why bother w/ them? As I stated, we either need the approval of the majority voters, the approval of Congress, the approval of the President, or the approval of SCOTUS. It was much more important to deal w/ religion when the Republicans controlled Congress and the Presidency b/c we weren't going to make headway w/ either of them, so it made sense to look elsewhere. Legal battles were a long shot since SCOTUS leans conservatively. Therefore, churches and religious people became good targets since the majority of Americans are religious. That was our in--persuade the majority of the people so they'll vote in favor of equality in their states and will vote for politicians who support equality.

However, the last election changed the atmosphere and our strategy should adapt to the change. I think our focus should shift to Congress and President Obama. Our resources would be better spent targeting them. The Democrats have the majority and the Presidency. We need to let them know, w/ our voices and our money, that we want equality. They have the power to make it happen for the entire U.S. Additionally, we stand a better change of meeting our goals through them. Although religious people may not be concerned w/ pleasing the LGBT community, the Democrats will definitely take it into consideration since the LGBT community is a core part of the party's support.

I think a lot of our problem is that people get fired up for a little while, but the passion dies down. Well, this is something that we need to work on everyday. And,not just emails to politicians but actual phone calls and visits to their offices. Not just one protest, but a continued rally. Having a specific plan in hand, and having specific goals in mind, just works better. It's the better strategy.
 
If, according to your assessment, dearest Alpha, the mormons aren't a threat, then what's all the hubub? We can shift our focus to the current government that would likely be much more willing to help our cause than the last government. We can also thumb our noses at jackasses who think it's alright to deny us the same civil dignities they enjoy. We're not terribly religious as a whole so there's no reason to take the high road or turn the other cheak when discriminated against. We don't need to act all goody-goody and be their friends and hope they will eventually accept us, especially if they're such a minority. They need to know that we will stand up and push back and we are not afraid of them.

Oh, and all the different christian factions talk shit about each other all the time. It doesn't matter if we also point out that their religion is based on lies and what they really care about is material wealth. They share with us their beliefs, and we share ours.
 
I've been saying we should do something like this ever since Prop 8 passed. I think they should do this in front of the Mormon temple every Sunday from now till the apocalypse... the bastards have it coming.
 
Why? Yes, this faith donated a lot of money to hinder gay rights, however, they are a minority religion. They have less money than the Catholic Church and less numbers. They are less of a threat than most other religions. They are also one of the least likely to change. So, why focus on them?

It's an excellent place to start.

Why take our fight up w/ any religion? How will that help us to obtain equal rights? If these people are really doing it for GOD, you won't be able to intimidate them. You won't be able to stop them. People have died for GOD, a mere kiss in and/or boycott isn't going to change that.

You are assuming that a religion that picks on other minorities is made up by steadfast individuals. In practice, a little pressure can work miracles. Look at the Church Of England.
 
You can't slap people in the face and then demand they respect you. Well you can do it, but the respect you are looking for will probably not come.

Religion is just that. It is just something we have to deal, not just on a gay level, but on so many others aswell.

They should have thought about that before they set out to destroy gay marriage. They want to destroy our lives, let's give them a taste of their own medicine

Religion vs homosexuality is a battle that will always be fought and never won. Of course there are the few examples on acceptance, but as a group it will always be a battle. It goes back to the basic ideal, that we fear what we don't understand. This type of protest will add fuel to a fire that has just been burning, and burning.

The battle will be won the moment LGBTs truly have equal rights. We're not that far from that happening.
 
Equal rights under the law is one thing but being seen as eqauls in the eyes of others is another.
 
You can't slap people in the face and then demand they respect you. Well you can do it, but the respect you are looking for will probably not come.

Religion is just that. It is just something we have to deal, not just on a gay level, but on so many others aswell.

I will say this, if the two guys were on private property and kissed and it offended the people there, then they have the right to speak out against it. Just as you have the right to speak out against it.

I think alot of people seem to forget that everyone has a right to their own opinion, within the the law.

Religion vs homosexuality is a battle that will always be fought and never won. Of course there are the few examples on acceptance, but as a group it will always be a battle. It goes back to the basic ideal, that we fear what we don't understand. This type of protest will add fuel to a fire that has just been burning, and burning.

I agree with this. How are you better when your response to these things is "let's mock their religion" and piss off their morals? Do you really think that'll ever lead to acceptance? It solidifies our 'status' as unnatural, immoral deviants.
 
I do hope the kissing goes well. I wish I could come and do some of the kissing. However, my knowledge of the LDS people is that no dialogue is going to happen, not in our lifetimes.

Shep+:confused:
 
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