Last U.S. Manufacturer of Lethal Injection Drug Ends Production

[BostonPirate]

BP, your list is incorrect because it has a death penalty offense for New York. The state's highest court struck down that law, so New York does not have the death penalty for any offenses.

The request was for 31, I included 35, so I guess we are still in the ballpark.

I wonder why that site hasn't been updated... thats three states with incorrect info.

 

[Kulindahr]

The request was for 31, I included 35, so I guess we are still in the ballpark.

I wonder why that site hasn't been updated... thats three states with incorrect info.

Let's sue 'em. That incorrect info is causing me severe emotional distress.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

^^I actually have mixed feelings about speeding up the process as I don't EVER like hearing about cases like the one I posted the link to...

Note that I suggested slowing the actual trial down, speeding the appeals up, and adding in an additional check to the system by ensuring that the lawyer wasn't someone doing it solely for the money.

Having said that -- I've heard a GRUESOME theory about quickly killing the criminal in the SAME MANNER in which he killed the victims -- it might actually WORK as a deterrent. (although I'm not sure if ANYONE is sadistic enough to carry out the actual death sentence)...

That would be interesting.....

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

yeah? ok. so you command it, so it will be done oh great and mighty kuli.....

Thank you for playing, but I don't think that "murder and aggravating factors 1-X" multiple times as well as variations of "victim killed in conjunction with another felony" or "premeditated murder" counts. I was sort of almost expecting 3 dozen DIFFERENT reasons for capital punishment, not a mere 20 or so. Nice try, however,

the point I was trying to make is that each state writes its own laws on capital punishment.

Sort of. As I just pointed out, they tend to share the same basics. Also, in some states, the crimes you listed are prosecuted at the federal level (treason being the obvious, kidnapping across state lines another). Another issue is that you list omitted that even crimes that should get you the death penalty usually don't unless they are particularly heinous (abuse to a minor, for example, has to involve a lot before it goes to a death penalty). Even some crimes where multiple deaths have been involved (such as causing a train wreck), the person has only received a life sentence. Just because there is a death penalty doesn't mean that is always sought.

And you still haven't even bothered providing an alternative...

RG

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

^
Or the sex crimes thing in Oklahoma. If their laws are like many places, that could get you a death sentence for taking a leak where a little kid happened to see......

The problem is that you would need to do something really interesting to get the death penalty for that, like it caused the child to drown....

[The "resisting arrest" issue, BTW, usually only applies if someone was killed while you were resisting arrest...]

RG

 

[BostonPirate]

the agravating factors are different from state to state.

Still saying...

states decide on the use of the death penalty individually and as such they each write their own laws.

Those laws are all different in some varying degree or another. you may notice one says WITH eight agravating factors, instead of one of ten or something.

but thanks for playing

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Something going on there is the failure of a principle the Founding Fathers took for granted: that it's better for a hundred (or a thousand) guilty to walk free than one innocent to be punished.

I think this is the real crux of the argument, and why there needs to be at least some reform. I know of a lot of horror stories, such as a lawyer that slept through most of the trial, as well as others. It's just weird that every time you hear of someone who was actually innocent of the crime, it can usually be linked back to an incompetent lawyer who did something so stupid as to cost the case. I'm obviously for the death penalty, but at the same time I would like to make sure that the right person is being punished by it.

Personally I think that any time an innocent person is punished, the DA on the case should be tarred and feathered and pilloried, the officers who arrested the innocent person should be busted back to new recruits, and perjuring witnesses.... okay, that would be cruel and unusual, so I'd send them to replace the innocent person in prison and remain there for as long as the wrongly convicted person did.

I think this should apply to any official who pushes through a death penalty case or a lawyer whose incompetence can be proven as well, with the person at least being punished as an accomplice. Bet that would force a slowing down of things...

RG

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

states decide on the use of the death penalty individually and as such they each write their own laws.

Noted. Each state has to govern their people in the way that they believe is best. Unfortunately, I'm just not seeing how a stated implements or doesn't implement the death penalty is really relevant to a discussion on the merits or lack thereof...

Those laws are all different in some varying degree or another. you may notice one says WITH eight agravating factors, instead of one of ten or something.

So some states have better editors than others. I really don't see how, if one state wants more factors listed or another wants fewer listed, it's intrinsically different.

but thanks for playing

No offense, but could you at some point put together a cogent argument together? You keep taking potshots at the argument, but nothing of actual import. You have not provided alternatives, you have not argued an actual reason why not, and you really haven't argued an opinion either way. Wanna up your game and actually join the discussion?

RG

 

[BostonPirate]

You want to up YOUr game and actually read?

let me be more clear then.

The laws ARE, in fact, different. There not just different amounts of agravating factors, there are different .. you know... agravating factors from state to state.

let me help you there, buddy...

california...

first-degree murder with special circumstances[27]

1. for financial gain (1)
2. the defendant had previously been convicted of first or second degree murder (2)
3. multiple murders (3)
4. committed using explosives (4) ; (6)
5. to avoid arrest or aiding in escaping custody (5)
6. the victim was an on-duty peace officer; federal law enforcement officer or agent; or firefighter (7) ; (8) ; (9)
7. the victim was a witness to a crime and the murder was committed to prevent them from testifying (10)
8. the victim was a prosecutor or assistant prosecutor; judge or former judge; elected or appointed official; juror; and the murder was in retaliation for the victim's official duties (11) ; (12) ; (13) ; (20)
9. the murder was "especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel, manifesting exceptional depravity" (14)
10. the murderer lay in wait for the victim (15)
11. the victim was intentionally killed because of their race, religion, nationality, or country of origin (a hate crime) (16)
12. the murder was committed during the commissioning of robbery; kidnapping; rape; sodomy; performance of a lewd or lascivious act upon the person of a child under the age of 14 years; oral copulation; burglary; arson; train wrecking; mayhem; rape by instrument; carjacking; torture; poisoning (17)
13. the murder was intentional and involved the infliction of torture (18)
14. poisoning (19)
15. the murder was committed by discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle (21)
16. the defendant is an active member of a criminal street gang and was to further the activities of the gang (22)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_California

Texas

With one exception, the only crime for which the death penalty can be assessed is "capital murder". Capital murder is specifically defined by the Texas Penal Code as

1. murder which involves one or more of the elements listed below:[4]
2. Murder of an on-duty public safety officer or firefighter (the defendant must have known that the victim was such)
3. Intentional murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit a felony offense (such as burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat)
4. Murder for remuneration or for promise of remuneration (both the person who does the actual murder and the person who hired them can be charged with capital murder)
5. Murder while escaping or attempting to escape a penal institution
6. Murder while incarcerated with one of the following three qualifiers:
7. While incarcerated for capital murder, the victim is an employee of the institution or the murder must be done "with the intent to establish, maintain, or participate in a combination or in the profits of a combination",
8. While incarcerated for either capital murder or murder, or
9. While serving either a life sentence or a 99-year sentence under specified Penal Code sections not involving capital murder or murder.
10. Multiple murders (defined as two or more murders during the same "criminal act", which can involve a series of events not taking place at the same time)
11. Murder of an individual under six years of age
12. Murder of a person in retaliation for, or on account of, the service or status of the other person as a judge or justice of any court

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Texas

can you see how the agravating factors vary so wildly?

the laws are all completely different

Nice try though

the agravating factors of texas will not get you the death penalty in california

thats just the reality. Do you really want to continue with this? shall I list all the laws for you to read through and compare?

 

[BostonPirate]

Or, maybe she should!

HA!!!

I like me some Snooks. a short chubby drunk dykey looking person.... that perfectly describes me

 

[laikaNYC]

Instead of the death penalty, I like the idea of sending murderers and rapists to a gulag style prison in Alaska

 

[Kulindahr]

Instead of the death penalty, I like the idea of sending murderers and rapists to a gulag style prison in Alaska

Send 'em to Canada to work in the tar sands.


Interesting statistic:

of all the criminals who go to prison/jail and get out, the two least likely to re-offend are murderers and rapists.

Another:

of all crimes where people are wrongly convicted, murder and rape are at the top of the list.

 

[Ninja108]

Something going on there is the failure of a principle the Founding Fathers took for granted: that it's better for a hundred (or a thousand) guilty to walk free than one innocent to be punished.

Personally I think that any time an innocent person is punished, the DA on the case should be tarred and feathered and pilloried, the officers who arrested the innocent person should be busted back to new recruits, and perjuring witnesses.... okay, that would be cruel and unusual, so I'd send them to replace the innocent person in prison and remain there for as long as the wrongly convicted person did.

Indeed, I personally feel it is an outrage when DA's who helped put innocent men and women in prison on death row or in prison for decades face no reprucussions for their actions,especially when evidence comes out that they knew the person was most liekly innocent but choice getting another win to add to their records over justice.

 

[Kulindahr]

Indeed, I personally feel it is an outrage when DA's who helped put innocent men and women in prison on death row or in prison for decades face no reprucussions for their actions,especially when evidence comes out that they knew the person was most liekly innocent but choice getting another win to add to their records over justice.

From a public advocate in a neighboring county:

You know what you call an assistant DA who goes for truth instead of a win?
Unemployed.

 

[joaama]

Send 'em to Canada to work in the tar sands.


Interesting statistic:

of all the criminals who go to prison/jail and get out, the two least likely to re-offend are murderers and rapists.

I find that incredibly hard to believe.

 

[BostonPirate]

I find that incredibly hard to believe.

yeah, I agree.

but don't ask for a citation.It gets messy.

 

[Kulindahr]

I find that incredibly hard to believe.

The information is from the Office of Justice Programs, U.S. Department of Justice.

It seems weird until you consider that murder and sex crimes are quite generally crimes of passion. Property crimes tend to be "business" matters, people engaging in an occupation meant to acquire income; people that do that sort of thing go back to it at nearly a 2/3 rate within two years of release from prison. Sex offenders and murderers go back to those "occupations" at less than a 5% rate.


Another statistic: there's a strong predictor for those who will reoffend -- the ones who abscond or fail to register while on supervision. The rest turn out to be as safe as the general public.

 

[cocksucker4use]

Life and death. Capital punishment vs. abortion vs. euthanasia/assisted suicide. Three social issues that continue to drive political debate. The three big problems with capital punishment: 1) it is not a deterrent, as capital offenses are still committed, and 2) innocent persons are sometimes convicted of capital crimes and 3) there are different standards of application of capital punishment across states.

 

[bankside]

Send 'em to Canada to work in the tar sands.

Why on earth would you reward a criminal with that kind of bounty? $90 000 per year salary, no health care premiums, beautiful countryside, and even an arts scene in a frontier town sort of way. People are so eager to live there that a mobile home in a trailer park goes for half a million.

Does not compute for ex criminal reintegration program...

 

[Kulindahr]

Why on earth would you reward a criminal with that kind of bounty? $90 000 per year salary, no health care premiums, beautiful countryside, and even an arts scene in a frontier town sort of way. People are so eager to live there that a mobile home in a trailer park goes for half a million.

Does not compute for ex criminal reintegration program...

??

How did you get that out of a gulag-style work camp?

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