Libya, Bradley Manning and Human Rights

[Kulindahr]

Perhaps you could publish your Credo on your blog page.

I'm a newbie and still trying to comprehend why the CE&P Snakepit seems so thuggish.

I and Donny have our own pic on our avatar. Everyone else seems to be hidden behind movie pictures

CE & P took a "thuggish" turn recently when it began to be apparent just what barbarians had been turned loose in D.C. and elsewhere by the Tea Partites. A bunch of right-wing name-calling has contributed.

Still, it's more polite than many forums.



edit: my avatar is no "movie picture"

 

[BostonPirate]

Perhaps you could publish your Credo on your blog page.

I'm a newbie and still trying to comprehend why the CE&P Snakepit seems so thuggish.

I and Donny have our own pic on our avatar. Everyone else seems to be hidden behind movie pictures

You come in swinging yourself, there champ.

We get to know each other in time, and it becomes evident that you never know who is going to land where on the issues. We are a very opinionated and diverse group of people.

You do make a good suggestion for a new thread since there are alot of newer guys here. maybe we need a personal views thread again... its been a few months.

 

[Kulindahr]

UN is debating the no-fly zone right now. The ambassador from France is talking, but CNN is talking over it.

 

[Kulindahr]

You come in swinging yourself, there champ.

We get to know each other in time, and it becomes evident that you never know who is going to land where on the issues. We are a very opinionated and diverse group of people.

You do make a good suggestion for a new thread since there are alot of newer guys here. maybe we need a personal views thread again... its been a few months.

No politicians allowed -- their views are for sale.

 

[BostonPirate]

UN is debating the no-fly zone right now. The ambassador from France is talking, but CNN is talking over it.

Crowleys running that big YAP of hers.

 

[Kulindahr]

Security Council is voting. Russia and China abstained.

. . . .

Come on.... voting concluded. Waiting for total.

Ten votes in favor -- no votes against -- five abstain.

Resolution passed.

 

[BostonPirate]

Security Council is voting. Russia and China abstained.

. . . .

Come on.... voting concluded. Waiting for total.

Ten votes in favor -- no votes against -- five abstain.

Resolution passed.

the no fly zone is in effect then. Good work done by the Dept of State. Hats off to Hillary and Lisa.

 

[Kulindahr]

This approved not just a no-fly, but "all necessary measures" to "protect civilians".

Presumably that would allow NATO or someone to blow away the Libyan armor advancing on Benghazi. It forbids "foreign occupation", which I think was pointedly aimed at the U.S.

 

[Kulindahr]

This meets the requirements Italy set out. Presumably, France and Britain were ready to go, waiting on this, and there will be warplanes sortieing from southern Italy before morning there.

Unfortunately, Gaddhafi may not need air power any longer. Maybe that's what the "all necessary measures" is about.

 

[jackoroe]

JayoTN, first let me welcome you to CE&P. Now let me advise you that we don't look kindly on personal attacks on other members. I'd suggest that you address the topic at hand and not other members. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.

 

[BostonPirate]

This approved not just a no-fly, but "all necessary measures" to "protect civilians".

Presumably that would allow NATO or someone to blow away the Libyan armor advancing on Benghazi. It forbids "foreign occupation", which I think was pointedly aimed at the U.S.

Could be the Obama admin may have wanted it there. They were in a closed meeting before this suddenly broke. Who knows what came from where.

They say they are going to take out the Libyan airforce and wipe out anti aircraft installations as part of the no fly zone.

 

[Kulindahr]

Could be the Obama admin may have wanted it there. They were in a closed meeting before this suddenly broke. Who knows what came from where.

They say they are going to take out the Libyan airforce and wipe out anti aircraft installations as part of the no fly zone.

I didn't hear that on CNN, just that they may have to.

Wish I was a billionaire -- I'd offer $1k US to any Egyptian soldier who decided to "volunteer" to help the rebels... and $250 per volunteer as a "thank you" to the military council for granting all those nice boys an indefinite leave.

But to really help at this point, they're going to have to eliminate Qaddhafi's armor, and enable the rebels to start taking towns back -- and as each town was taken, it would come under that clause about protecting civilians.

If only this could have been even four days ago!

 

[kallipolis]

This meets the requirements Italy set out. Presumably, France and Britain were ready to go, waiting on this, and there will be warplanes sortieing from southern Italy before morning there.

Unfortunately, Gaddhafi may not need air power any longer. Maybe that's what the "all necessary measures" is about.

No refuelling is needed on Italian territory for French, and British aircraft.

France can scramble its aircraft from a base on the French island of Corsica.

The United Kingdom can scramble its aircraft from two large RAF bases on the island of Cyprus, that are also part of British sovereign territory on that island.

Incidentally the CIA operate their U2s out of RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus. Cyprus also acts as a major RAF listening post, and radar complex monitoring aircraft movements over Israel, Lebanon, and Syria.

The rebels in Benghazi are throwing an enormous open air party to celebrate the good news from the UN.

 

[Lostlover]

It looks like people haven't learned their lessons from the hawkish US stance before the Iraq war. Oh how soon people forget.

 

[Kulindahr]

No refuelling is needed on Italian territory for French, and British aircraft.

France can scramble its aircraft from a base on the French island of Corsica.

The United Kingdom can scramble its aircraft from two large RAF bases on the island of Cyprus, that are also part of British sovereign territory on that island.

Incidentally the CIA operate their U2s out of RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus. Cyprus also acts as a major RAF listening post, and radar complex monitoring aircraft movements over Israel, Lebanon, and Syria.

The rebels in Benghazi are throwing an enormous open air party to celebrate the good news from the UN.

I am corrected.

They should be overflying Benghazi and the town where Qaduffi's forces are currently, and make the point. They should also request permission from Egypt to fly around the edge of Libyan space and come in on the air defenses from the rear -- according to the maps I've seen, the defenses on the land side are nil. The Colonel should be getting awakened in the middle of the night to be told the free people of the world are serious (finally).

 

[Kulindahr]

It looks like people haven't learned their lessons from the hawkish US stance before the Iraq war. Oh how soon people forget.

Which has what to do with Libya?

 

[jayoTN]

your world view is archaic. The Gov't of Libya did NOT ask us to do a no fly zone, the rebels did.

That is complicated diplomatically. The Sec of state and the UN are working on this fix. If you can't see that then you are ever tied to unilatteral gun barrel diplomacy.

you seem to think that the world needs to see the USA as a star on the stage or we aren't doing anything. That is NOT a conservative value.

You don't know me, so don't make assumptions about who I am and what my personal philosophy is.

It would seem that you are incorrect this time.

Do you even listen to yourself?

The National Libyan Council (which has other names mentioned in the media, such as the Transitional Council, etc.), which is made up of rebels and led by Gadhafi's former justice minister Mustafa Abdul Jalil, has been asking for a no-fly zone for weeks. France has officially recognized this council as the "legitimate" government of Libya and even had plans to install an ambassador in Benghazi. (I would assume those plans are currently on hold given the volatile situation in and around Benghazi at the moment.) Furthermore, France and Britain have called upon the European Union to likewise recognize the Council as the "legitimate" Libyan government. Obviously, the Gadhafi regime are not going to ask for a no-fly zone.

Since you are such a fan of the United Nations, why do most of their involvements produce either ineffectual results or make the nation worse than before. How is that UN-backed transitional government working in Somalia? Likewise with Bosnia and Kosovo? Bosnia remains a patch-work quilt of the various ethnic groups and Kosovo remains unrecognized as an independent republic by most of the world. The West African nation of Ivory Coast has had two men claiming to be president since November 2010, despite efforts by the UN to get the defeated president to leave office using sanctions and asset freezes (sound familiar?). Even the tensions in the Middle East between Israel and the Arabs can be traced back to the UN partition of Israel prior to its independence. The U.S. Senate is often called the world greatest "debating society", but the ineffectual and inept United Nations is beginning to resemble such a society instead of a world body that helps to resolve world problems and crises.

 

[BostonPirate]

Do you even listen to yourself?

The National Libyan Council (which has other names mentioned in the media, such as the Transitional Council, etc.), which is made up of rebels and led by Gadhafi's former justice minister Mustafa Abdul Jalil, has been asking for a no-fly zone for weeks. France has officially recognized this council as the "legitimate" government of Libya and even had plans to install an ambassador in Benghazi. (I would assume those plans are currently on hold given the volatile situation in and around Benghazi at the moment.) Furthermore, France and Britain have called upon the European Union to likewise recognize the Council as the "legitimate" Libyan government. Obviously, the Gadhafi regime are not going to ask for a no-fly zone.

Since you are such a fan of the United Nations, why do most of their involvements produce either ineffectual results or make the nation worse than before. How is that UN-backed transitional government working in Somalia? Likewise with Bosnia and Kosovo? Bosnia remains a patch-work quilt of the various ethnic groups and Kosovo remains unrecognized as an independent republic by most of the world. The West African nation of Ivory Coast has had two men claiming to be president since November 2010, despite efforts by the UN to get the defeated president to leave office using sanctions and asset freezes (sound familiar?). Even the tensions in the Middle East between Israel and the Arabs can be traced back to the UN partition of Israel prior to its independence. The U.S. Senate is often called the world greatest "debating society", but the ineffectual and inept United Nations is beginning to resemble such a society instead of a world body that helps to resolve world problems and crises.

you don't have a clue as to how I feel about the UN and quite frankly, my opinion of it doesn't matter in this instance.

for once, the USA doesn't have to be first called upon to be the policemen of the world and then hated for the actions we took. The US economy simply cannot handle another engagement.

If you have a problem with that, then I suggest you write to your congressman or senator and tell them they need to expand the military budget.

Something tells me they wont take you seriously.

Now there are other people stepping up to the plate with a plan, and the USA helped facilitate that, but is not responsible for it financially or militarily.

in business we call that a sweet deal.

 

[pat grimshaw]

…the USA doesn't have to be first called upon to be the policemen of the world…

~~
So many people laugh at the UN's ineffectualness but I wonder how the oppressed people of the world can take the UN seriously while it's located in the heart of New York, the symbol of Capitalism

 

[Lostlover]

Which has what to do with Libya?

Beating the drums of war. Criticizing Obama for not taking action yet not specifying what type of action. A country that executed a war like the 2003 Iraq War should be afraid and apprehensive about starting new wars, not eager and anxious.