Mass shooting at Pulse Nightclub in Orlando Florida: Political Discussion [SPLIT]

[jbrown329]

America's First Openly Gay Imam Reflects on Orlando Massacre

Mother Jones: What was your reaction when you heard about the Orlando shooting?

Daayiee Abdullah: Well, I'll put it in context. Last week was the celebration of Muhammad Ali, a perfect example of a hero and an American Muslim. For me, as a black American Muslim, he was the epitome of following his faith to the best of his ability. Then, Saturday afternoon, I did a wedding for an interfaith couple, a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man. I woke up expecting a leisurely Sunday morning, and someone calls me at 9 and says, "Have you seen the news?" I tuned in and saw that this massacre had occurred. My first thought was, "Oh my god, I hope it's not a Muslim." And then of course the name Omar came out, and I thought, "Oh my god, 'terrorism' is going to be called left and right." The bottom of my heart fell out. Luckily, we didn't see the LGBT community accusing the Muslim community of homophobia and Islamophobia running rampant. Gay and Muslim rights advocates are working together to deal with this issue. Though the gunman may have killed 50 people and injured as many, the reality is that's not going to stop those communities from cooperation and continued growth.

Mother Jones

 

[EJMichaels]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

A semi automatic is NOT a sporting rifle.

From Outdoor Life's article 20 Versatile Semi-Automatic Rifles

Regardless of what you think or how you feel about using semi-automatic guns for hunting, autoloaders and AR-style rifles are becoming more common in camps and virtually every major manufacturer is producing these guns in calibers heavy enough to drop deer, hogs and bears. Not to mention the fact that they're a blast on the range.

But what's the real difference between an AR and a semi-automatic rifle? It's seminal, and aesthetic. ARs were initially designed by ArmaLite Inc. -- hence the AR designation -- as civilian versions of military rifles, while the other semi-autos in this review were developed first and foremost as hunting or competitive shooting firearms. However, as ARs continue to grow in popularity as hunting rifles and semi-auto hunting rifle makers continue to borrow features from the AR world (synthetic stocks, detachable magazines) trying to separate the types of guns on a philosophical level is an exercise in futility. Both rifles fire a single bullet each time the trigger is pulled and they both automatically eject the spent cartridge and chamber in a new one.

 

[gsdx]

Re: NRA is responsible for the Orlando killings

Ten things you probably didn't know about the NRA:

1. The NRA was originally not a civil rights organization.

The NRA was founded in 1871 after the Civil War by Army and Navy Journal editor William Conant Church (pictured above) and General George Wood Wingate of the Union Army, who were both dismayed at the horrible accuracy of Union soldiers during the Civil War. The original purpose of the organization was for rifle marksmanship training. However despite this, the NRA is the oldest civil rights organization in the United States.

2. The NRA has a history of being for gun control.

In 1934, the NRA supported the National Firearms Act, which served to regulate and tax firearms that were considered used by gangsters at the time. They also supported the Gun Control Act of 1968, which expanded on the system to license firearm dealers and prohibit criminals and those with mental impairments from owning firearms.

3. The NRA has a history of supporting the Civil Rights Movement.

While African Americans were being terrorized by the Ku Klux Klan, where the Klan were sometimes aided by local law enforcement, the NRA setup charters to help train local African American communities to be able protect themselves. The most prominent case being in 1960 in Monroe, N.C. where the local National Association for the Advancement of Colored People head Robert Williams also chartered an NRA Rifle Club that successully defended an assault on one of their leader's homes by the KKK without casualties.

See the rest: https://mic.com/articles/23929/10-surprising-facts-about-the-nra-that-you-never-hear#.oXWmSnJFt

 

[palemale]

The founders did not yet realize that they needed to defend against liberals as well as wild animals and attacking Native Americans. They regarded the need to hunt game and defend their families was too obvious to need spelling out. The recitation about militia is introductory. The operative portion of the Amendment is unambiguous; the right to keep bear arms shall not be infringed.

You and the activist, right wing majority on the Supreme Court ignore one of the oldest rules of statutory interpretation. The rule, known in Latin as Noscitur a Sociis, a thing is known by its associates, holds that an ambiguous word or passage in a law or contract takes its meaning from the other words and provisions accompanying it.

You do not quote the second amendment accurately here because you leave out the comma between "arms" and "shall." There are four separate clause in the second amendment, which does make it ambiguous. Thus, the final clause, "shall not be infringed," takes its meaning from the preceding three clauses. The full text is:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

We all know that the right-wing majority on the Supreme Court is result driven, and they do not care about the actual text unless it supports the result they want.

 

[Mariatenebre]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

It wasn't jihad. It was not an ISIS cell. This was a severly confused, closeted Muslim with mental health issues who was brought up to believe beinbg gay was wrong. He was a loner. He only aligned himself to ISIS to justify his extreme actions. ISIS of course will tag an to anything they think chimes with their extreme views

Actually it was jihad said closeted Muslim did this jihad attack most likely as a way to atone for being gay. He was mentally ill but still this attack is Islamic.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

Actually it was jihad said closeted Muslim did this jihad attack most likely as a way to atone for being gay. He was mentally ill but still this attack is Islamic.

I'm not sure where you, personally, fall on this point Mariatenebre. You seem to be pretty consistent with condemning all three Abrahamic religions. But there is certainly no mainstream discussion of Christianity as a terrorist religion or responsible for terrorism when white Christians launch shooting sprees or whatever else. And those incidents, in the U.S., certainly far dwarf the ones committed by Muslims.

 

[Benvolio]

You and the activist, right wing majority on the Supreme Court ignore one of the oldest rules of statutory interpretation. The rule, known in Latin as Noscitur a Sociis, a thing is known by its associates, holds that an ambiguous word or passage in a law or contract takes its meaning from the other words and provisions accompanying it.

You do not quote the second amendment accurately here because you leave out the comma between "arms" and "shall." There are four separate clause in the second amendment, which does make it ambiguous. Thus, the final clause, "shall not be infringed," takes its meaning from the preceding three clauses. The full text is:



We all know that the right-wing majority on the Supreme Court is result driven, and they do not care about the actual text unless it supports the result they want.

The first rule of consruction 9s that yiou look at thr litteral meanin of the word and do not look for ambiguity if none exists. '...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." That is absolutely clear and the first part of the sentence does not modify it in anyway. If you look outside the document, a rifle was essential for hunting and defence. Many were still living on the frontier and would be for another hundred years. If the liberals had announced that guns would only be allowed for the militia the Bill of Rights would not have been adopted--but of course not even the liberals intended what modern liberals now claim.

 

[kallipolis]

This New Yorker article helped me better appreciate the right to bear arms argument. An educational read, and brief:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/so-you-think-you-know-the-second-amendment

I quote:

For more than a hundred years, the answer was clear, even if the words of the amendment itself were not. The text of the amendment is divided into two clauses and is, as a whole, ungrammatical: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” The courts had found that the first part, the “militia clause,” trumped the second part, the “bear arms” clause. In other words, according to the Supreme Court, and the lower courts as well, the amendment conferred on state militias a right to bear arms—but did not give individuals a right to own or carry a weapon.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

Actually it was jihad said closeted Muslim did this jihad attack most likely as a way to atone for being gay. He was mentally ill but still this attack is Islamic.

The CIA disagrees with you.:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ooter-omar-mateen-isis-pulse-nightclub-attack

I quote:

CIA has not found any link between Orlando killer and Isis, says agency chief
John Brennan told the Senate intelligence committee Thursday that CIA has no evidence of a connection between Omar Mateen and the Islamic State

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

Actually it was jihad said closeted Muslim did this jihad attack most likely as a way to atone for being gay. He was mentally ill but still this attack is Islamic.

So I can say that the Muslim guy who's been my friend for 25 years who is utterly accepting of my gayness and always has been, his absolute welcome is Islamic?

Let's not massively oversimplify for the sake of pointless vilification. Even if - which is not the case, that all Muslims were terrorists, no one gets anywhere by reductivist recrimination.

 

[TX-Beau]

The first rule of consruction 9s that yiou look at thr litteral meanin of the word and do not look for ambiguity if none exists. '...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." That is absolutely clear and the first part of the sentence does not modify it in anyway. If you look outside the document, a rifle was essential for hunting and defence. Many were still living on the frontier and would be for another hundred years. If the liberals had announced that guns would only be allowed for the militia the Bill of Rights would not have been adopted--but of course not even the liberals intended what modern liberals now claim.

You forgot the MARAUDING INDIANS!!!!!!



Poor Ben, so myopic, so obtuse.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

I'm not sure where you, personally, fall on this point Mariatenebre. You seem to be pretty consistent with condemning all three Abrahamic religions. But there is certainly no mainstream discussion of Christianity as a terrorist religion or responsible for terrorism when white Christians launch shooting sprees or whatever else. And those incidents, in the U.S., certainly far dwarf the ones committed by Muslims.

There is a difference between people who act for political reasons (let's face it ISIS is political NOT religious) and people who are fucked up by homophobic religions.

Fundamentalists of all stripes attribute to God whatever their pet hatred is, but that doesn't cover extremism with the goal of political objectives.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

In Scotland football is ALL about religion

If it was true, all the Scots would actually play FOOTBALL!

 

[jbrown329]

It was only a matter of time.

And now the conspiracy theories. The massacre at Pulse was a "false flag" attack. All designed by the government to grab your guns.

This was posted to the local Craigslist Rants&Raves. Orlando shooting is fakehoax and here is why

I've went rounds (before) with the asshat that posted that.

 

[TX-Beau]

It was only a matter of time.

And now the conspiracy theories. The massacre at Pulse was a "false flag" attack. All designed by the government to grab your guns.

This was posted to the local Craigslist Rants&Raves. Orlando shooting is fakehoax and here is why

I've went rounds (before) with the asshat that posted that.

I'm going to hand that idiot one of these.

 

[palemale]

The first rule of consruction 9s that yiou look at thr litteral meanin of the word and do not look for ambiguity if none exists. '...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." That is absolutely clear and the first part of the sentence does not modify it in anyway.

The first rule of construction is that you do not look at words in isolation. You have to look at the sentence the words are in, the paragraph the sentence is in, the statute the paragraph is in, you get the picture.

You very conveniently leave out the comma in the two clauses you misquote above. The complete text of the 2d amendment is:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The sentence is grammatically fucked up, no question about that, but you completely read the first and second clause out of the amendment. The first clause is the subject of the sentence, the second and third clauses are modifiers, and the final clause is the predicate. That is the way the Supreme Court read the amendment for at least 100 years before the Heller case. The reference to the people in the third clause is to people in the collective sense, and modifies the subject of the sentence, which is the Militia, in the same way that most states in state criminal court cases title those case "People v. Joe Blow."

 

[Mariatenebre]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

I'm not sure where you, personally, fall on this point Mariatenebre. You seem to be pretty consistent with condemning all three Abrahamic religions. But there is certainly no mainstream discussion of Christianity as a terrorist religion or responsible for terrorism when white Christians launch shooting sprees or whatever else. And those incidents, in the U.S., certainly far dwarf the ones committed by Muslims.

Actually I do think Christian teachings are responsible for Christian terrorism and when Christians do these attacks I always call them out. In fact when it comes to Christian terrorism there seems to be no problem on the left with calling out the Christian roots of terrorism. It is a trend that the right basically are apologists for Christianity and the left for Islam. If you are a woman, Pagan, Atheist or LGBT you are on your own.

So I can say that the Muslim guy who's been my friend for 25 years who is utterly accepting of my gayness and always has been, his absolute welcome is Islamic?

Let's not massively oversimplify for the sake of pointless vilification. Even if - which is not the case, that all Muslims were terrorists, no one gets anywhere by reductivist recrimination.

I never said that all Muslims or all Abrahamic peoples for that matter are homophobic. However the fact remains that the Abrahamic religions all teach homophobia. Now I realize that some Muslims and other Abrahamics do not follow the teachings of their religion in this and other regards. This does not change however what the doctrine explicitly states.

 

[Telstra]

It was only a matter of time.

And now the conspiracy theories. The massacre at Pulse was a "false flag" attack. All designed by the government to grab your guns.

This was posted to the local Craigslist Rants&Raves. Orlando shooting is fakehoax and here is why

I've went rounds (before) with the asshat that posted that.

And did you flag his ad ?
If not, why not?

 

[jbrown329]

And did you flag his ad ?
If not, why not?

Not yet. I stayed long enough to pull the link to my desktop. Otherwise I would've probably put my fist though the monitor. I've not been back to see if any of the locals have let him/her have it. There are some who will. I'll be checking later to see responses.

 

[johaninsc]

Not yet. I stayed long enough to pull the link to my desktop. Otherwise I would've probably put my fist though the monitor. I've not been back to see if any of the locals have let him/her have it. There are some who will. I'll be checking later to see responses.

yeah..I see quite a few posts by those False Flag nuts over at Yahoo News comments

there's some (or one?) now posting the same thing about the Pulse shooting...could be the same guy

I just troll the shit out of them (or him)