Mass shooting at Pulse Nightclub in Orlando Florida: Political Discussion [SPLIT]

[TX-Beau]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

...I never said that all Muslims or all Abrahamic peoples for that matter are homophobic. However the fact remains that the Abrahamic religions all teach homophobia. Now I realize that some Muslims and other Abrahamics do not follow the teachings of their religion in this and other regards. This does not change however what the doctrine explicitly states.

Yeah, there's a bunch of Christians who teach inclusion and acceptance, and there are Jews who do also, and I would say that there are Muslims who are no less Muslim because you insist they are homophobes when they are not, and nor is their religion. You don't get to decide what is Islam and what is Christianity for all of them.

In the end you need to ask yourself what you want. Do you want Muslim homophobes to stop being homophobes? Do you simply want to vilify? What is the point of your statements?

I usually don't say this in here because no one in here is usually trying to change things, but if you want less Muslim homophobes, your strategy in talking about them is wanting.

 

[offthewall14420]

Re: NRA is responsible for the Orlando killings

I assume NRA does not have a huge amount of money or assets in any event, Manufacturers are liable if they produce a defective gun. But the are not liabe for bad acts comitted with their guns. Knives can be used to kill people. Should they be liable? Hammers, acrewdrivers, axes, drain cleaner, rat poison. Laws should be made by Congress in a democracy, not by nonelecred judges.
If guns are responsible, so is our official policy of divisiveness and multiculturalism.

Do you know what strict liability is? Why was it waived by Congress for the gun industry?

The American people have every reason to expect it to be applied to the gun industry. They need to pay for their externalities.

Plus the NRA needs to be considered a hate group.

 

[Benvolio]

Re: NRA is responsible for the Orlando killings

Do you know what strict liability is? Why was it waived by Congress for the gun industry?

The American people have every reason to expect it to be applied to the gun industry. They need to pay for their externalities.

Plus the NRA needs to be considered a hate group.

I do indeed understand strict liability in tort. It imposes liability for defective products, and if a defective gun is produced which, for instance, fires without the trigger being pulled, or which explodes, the manufacturer would be liable. But you are not complaining about defective guns. Your complaint is that they work well but are used too often and for wrong purposes. This is not an instance in which strict liability is applicable.

 

[Mariatenebre]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

Yeah, there's a bunch of Christians who teach inclusion and acceptance, and there are Jews who do also, and I would say that there are Muslims who are no less Muslim because you insist they are homophobes when they are not, and nor is their religion. You don't get to decide what is Islam and what is Christianity for all of them.

In the end you need to ask yourself what you want. Do you want Muslim homophobes to stop being homophobes? Do you simply want to vilify? What is the point of your statements?

I usually don't say this in here because no one in here is usually trying to change things, but if you want less Muslim homophobes, your strategy in talking about them is wanting.

I am aware that many Christians, Jews and Muslims are not homophobic but are inclusive and lovely people. However this does not change the fact that the religious texts they adhere to are homophobic and brutal. They may choose not to follow it but that doesn't change what the text actually states nor does it do anyone good to pretend that these verses don't exist. I could use another example I met a person who claimed to be a Nazi once but he claimed he did not hate all non whites, Jews etc. Had them as friends, didn't have an issue with race mixing and even disagreed with Hitler on many things he was also pro gay as well. Now does his existence mean that Nazism as an ideology is inclusive and tolerant no it is just that said person is not adhering to the premises outlined in his ideology. I am aware that many Muslims are good people but pretending that Islam as a religion or that the Quran and Hadith is accepting of homosexuality is simply not true.

 

[Benvolio]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

Jesus said nothing against homosexuality. And he did say; let him who is without sin cast the first stone. In numerous ways he indicated he was changing to rules of the what we call the Old Testament. So, realistically it is not true that the Christian texts are homophobic. I am not a believing Christian, but I am familiar with the New Testament.

 

[Telstra]

Christians love the Old Testament stories !!!

 

[palemale]

Re: NRA is responsible for the Orlando killings

I do indeed understand strict liability in tort. It imposes liability for defective products, and if a defective gun is produced which, for instance, fires without the trigger being pulled, or which explodes, the manufacturer would be liable. But you are not complaining about defective guns. Your complaint is that they work well but are used too often and for wrong purposes. This is not an instance in which strict liability is applicable.

Strict liability imposes liability for a tort where someone is engaged in an inherently dangerous activity and does not require proof of negligence or fault. It also applies in product liability cases, which is why so many products come with warning labels (so manufacturers can avoid lawsuits).

 

[Benvolio]

Re: NRA is responsible for the Orlando killings

Strict liability imposes liability for a tort where someone is engaged in an inherently dangerous activity and does not require proof of negligence or fault. It also applies in product liability cases, which is why so many products come with warning labels (so manufacturers can avoid lawsuits).

In the products area, it requires that the product be defective. A product without adequate instruction and warnings as to possible side effects may be considered defective.

 

[jbrown329]

Exclusive: Song pays tribute to Pulse victims
In a Last Word exclusive, co-writers/singers Brandon Skeie and Eli Lieb share their song “Pulse” with MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell in remembrance of the 49 victims of the Orlando attack. Duration: 9:06 MSNBC

 

[offthewall14420]

Re: NRA is responsible for the Orlando killings

I do indeed understand strict liability in tort. It imposes liability for defective products, and if a defective gun is produced which, for instance, fires without the trigger being pulled, or which explodes, the manufacturer would be liable. But you are not complaining about defective guns. Your complaint is that they work well but are used too often and for wrong purposes. This is not an instance in which strict liability is applicable.

Defective marketing is the tort. You don't need a defective product. That's why CONGRESS (and Bernie Sanders) passed a bill to limit their liability to preempt lawsuits.

Tobacco companies were held liable for their product under the same rationale.

Another example is Oxycontin.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

Jesus said nothing against homosexuality. And he did say; let him who is without sin cast the first stone. In numerous ways he indicated he was changing to rules of the what we call the Old Testament. So, realistically it is not true that the Christian texts are homophobic. I am not a believing Christian, but I am familiar with the New Testament.

Taking only the word of Jesus and ignoring the ancient world cut off hands and sell kids into slavery and stone prostitutes stuff in the Old Testament is a presentation of Christian teachings that varies by denomination and interpretation. You cannot hold Islam to its worst passages if you recuse the same standard for Christianity.

 

[Benvolio]

Re: NRA is responsible for the Orlando killings

Defective marketing is the tort. You don't need a defective product. That's why CONGRESS (and Bernie Sanders) passed a bill to limit their liability to preempt lawsuits.

Tobacco companies were held liable for their product under the same rationale.

Another example is Oxycontin.

What is the deceptive marketing in guns?

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

I am aware that many Christians, Jews and Muslims are not homophobic but are inclusive and lovely people. However this does not change the fact that the religious texts they adhere to are homophobic and brutal. They may choose not to follow it but that doesn't change what the text actually states nor does it do anyone good to pretend that these verses don't exist. I could use another example I met a person who claimed to be a Nazi once but he claimed he did not hate all non whites, Jews etc. Had them as friends, didn't have an issue with race mixing and even disagreed with Hitler on many things he was also pro gay as well. Now does his existence mean that Nazism as an ideology is inclusive and tolerant no it is just that said person is not adhering to the premises outlined in his ideology. I am aware that many Muslims are good people but pretending that Islam as a religion or that the Quran and Hadith is accepting of homosexuality is simply not true.

So the fuck what? Plenty of religious people have rejected hatred in their Christianity and their Islam and their Judaism, and you don't get to define their religion for them just because you have a political agenda.

Your point is moot, and just as inflexible and intolerant, and indeed bigoted as anything you are condemning. You want to change minds, or do you just want to forge on in righteous dudgeon, projecting your prejudices on everyone else?

There is no religion between the pages of a book - it's all interpretation and practice, and if some Muslim has decided that hate isn't part of his religion, you don't get to tell him no.

Yeah, and that Nazi thing is just pretty stupid - false parallel and all.

 

[Telstra]

How can this old dirt say this:
""Barack Obama is directly responsible for it, because when he pulled everybody out of Iraq, al-Qaida went to Syria, became ISIS, and ISIS is what it is today thanks to Barack Obama's failures, utter failures, by pulling everybody out of Iraq," a visibly angry McCain said as the Senate debated a spending bill."

 

[rareboy]

A little off-topic there.

 

[Telstra]

How can this old dirt say this:
""Barack Obama is directly responsible for it, because when he pulled everybody out of Iraq, al-Qaida went to Syria, became ISIS, and ISIS is what it is today thanks to Barack Obama's failures, utter failures, by pulling everybody out of Iraq," a visibly angry McCain said as the Senate debated a spending bill."

Not off topic,
McCain said Obama is responsible for Orlando shooting because of the above reasons.

 

[offthewall14420]

Re: NRA is responsible for the Orlando killings

What is the deceptive marketing in guns?

That selling more guns is the only way to stop gun violence. That assault weapons are for use in self-defense or hunting. They've actively worked to market to children and deceived Americans about the public health hazard. Through various media, movies, tv, and radio they've promoted an inherently dangerous product as benign.

 

[offthewall14420]

Not off topic,
McCain said Obama is responsible for Orlando shooting because of the above reasons.

I thought McCain said in 2010 that it was his last election. Seriously, he needs to lose and cannot be allowed to die in the Senate... particularly after the Keating scandal. He's a hypocrite of the highest order.

 

[Kulindahr]

To tell you the truth, I see you less as an expert and more as an obsessive collector who has a blind spot towards anything that might get in the way between you and your hobby.
I believe that your arguments are overly flexible and irrational when it comes to justifying gun accessibility and that your anger when confronted with the potential for your hobby to be taken away is somewhat concerning.
I don't think you're bad, but I don't think you realise how extreme your viewpoint is.

What does this have to do with me?

I cited an expert -- you make it about me.


BTW, this has nothing to do with a "hobby", and everything to do with the understanding of liberty on which this country was founded.

 

[Kulindahr]

And of course the usual ammosexuals are making the usual self-serving deflecting pseudo-arguments to defend their musket ammendment. Because your pathetic "rights" and paranoid "what if" scenarios are more important than lives lost.

Fuck your second amendment and fuck your rights. The biggest shooting spree in the history of this country just occurred, and THEY DID IT TO US! Have some fucking respect.

This is a great example of the lying garbage the antis engage in to avoid rational thought.

The Founding Fathers understood, and millions of Americans agree, that the best way to protect lives is that potential victims be allowed to be armed. It's only common sense to have protection on the spot than to wait hours for the police to get around to doing their jobs.

To argue for more disarmament of potential victims shows not a trace of respect for individuals -- all it shows is an utter lack of value of human life.