Muslims. How do people feel about them?

[BearSalam]

I said that there were no grey areas in islam, it is black or white (pardon the pun). Either you are a moslem and go to mosque on friday, or you are not a moslem and do not go to mosque on a friday.
And further if one tried to defect from islam, god help you cos they would make your life hell on earth.
YES what i say right now IS.......

and YES this is the definition of the muslim religion.

I'm sorry but you are totaly wrong man. Maybe you have never read about islam or not familiar with history but, this is not what the fact says man . religion has never been black or white. this is too closed minded to say so. considering the complexity and the flux of thoughts in it.
in judaism, in islam or in christianity. there was always this tradition of critics, debates, interpretations and philosofy (even back in the days)...In islam for instance, if you think you summarize islam in one traditionalistic side (which is the minor one called "hanbalite"__they are the ones who choose to live by their own) you just threw all the other schools of thoughts (the sufi muslims, the one with hanafi tradition "the liberals", the exoteric ones, the esoteric...etc.......so many) in garbage. even within the islamic tradition in history their was this notion of confrontation and freedom of speech and debates between scholars...please don't ever say black or white. because its not really. and it will probbly take me long pages to explain you the difference between schools and thoughts in islam. you can read about that if you are interested.
and please if you still think its blck or white, just explain it to me. i live in a muslim country with islamic ethics etc...and i don't know this. maybe something you know and i forget it...where did you hear that? teach me

Once again....
YES I talk about religion, not traditions.
YES they are stereotypical, and rigid, and in a box, and are/were from Paki/India, and YES they are traditionalists. And YES they are indians. And YES the men all wear their little musim beards and little white embroidered skull caps with their white pyjamas in public as a uniform to repesent their religion. And YES they force their women to wear black pyjamas in public.

well here we go, i'm so sorry to contradict you again but the facts are here. i bet you're joking when you say "all". my parents are muslims, they don't have beard, they don't wear "black pijamas" by the way, there is no black pijama in ou tradition, i'm from morocco, just to understand that its has to do with traditions i'm not indian) and everybody that i know in my country and in my surroundings (80% of them are muslims doesn't wear anything like that, don't have a beard and they will be shocked reading you right now )

Please dont bother to appreciate anything on my behalf BRO. I never asked you to and i dont want you to.

Oh, and im not your BRO!!

Dont try water it down BRO cos this is how it is...

allright, i appreciate everybody, and its very interesting to discuss these things, to correct some stereotypes and of course to make things clear. to exchange opinions also.

you might be like those muslims you told me about in your own way, rigid in thinking and not open to not leting me calling you brother.

for me you are my brother in humanity and everybody else.
cheers.

depends to the person really...

 

[BearSalam]

Fascinating stuff... the idea of religion!!

The opium of the people.

I agree

 

[zoltanspawn]

I observe it more than theorize it. I observe the muslim people I know. I observe the people I know from muslim families. I listen to the character of the grievances of people in the news who come from nominally muslim countries, and what they bitch about is the same kind of everyday stuff that people bitch about in other non-muslim places. I read books by muslims and ex-muslims about the nature of their communities. I study the governance of countries in the middle east, and maghreb. Admittedly I've skipped Indonesia.

Not that many people are crazy jihadis. (In the western sense of the word.) Identity? The "ummah" has never really panned out in practice. And I think it is amusing to obtain a sense of selfhood from collective speculation about divinity. More to the point, my experience is that many so-called muslims feel the same way. Another analogy would be to people who consider themselves culturally jewish, but not religiously so. Identity can overlap with religion without depending on it.

You're a keen observer, Bankside, but I think in this case you may be out of your depth. Which isn't a bad thing, unless you subscribe to the position that scholars should be omniscient. How could one actually observe hundreds of millions enough to make characterizations--down to percentages--about Islam as it happens all around the globe? I would guess that sort of thing actually requires dedicated study by someone specializing in Islam, or perhaps a layperson who is immersed in the culture and has traveled a lot. I'm interested in armchair observations, but with plainer recognition of their nature.

My own minimal and anecdotal experience with Islam is limited to a single country, and the people I've met in masjids, districts, homes and whatnot. Most I would describe as culturally Muslim, but not in a way that would verify for me the 'eid muslim.' Rather than having vague, habitual, or lipservicey feelings about their Muslim faith, they displayed a profound connection and loyalty to their community. Islam was lived, and many seemed fiercely proud of their religion.

I have no idea if Islam happens similarly in Mauritania, Turkey.....Morocco.....Azerbaijan.....Maldives.....Albania......

 

[Ekim23]

I feel good

 

[kallipolis]

How could one actually observe hundreds of millions enough to make characterizations--down to percentages--about Islam as it happens all around the globe? .

Prejudice feeds the imagination of the ignorant person sufficiently to warn us that such generalised characterisations of the Muslim person are also readily apparent in the judgements of those who deem the gay person guilty of everything that the ignorant person believes justifies their easy generalisations.

 

[hotatlboi]

Like others have said, I personally dislike Islam mostly for the same reasons I dislike other religions. But I also dislike those who would suggest that we take away religious freedom for Muslims and do not allow them to practice their religion, or build houses of worship, or participate in government, or any of that.

BearSalam and other muslims have just as much right to their religious ideas as Christians or atheists or anyone else and government should protect that right.

 

[Telstra]

Like others have said, I personally dislike Islam mostly for the same reasons I dislike other religions. But I also dislike those who would suggest that we take away religious freedom for Muslims and do not allow them to practice their religion, or build houses of worship, or participate in government, or any of that.

BearSalam and other muslims have just as much right to their religious ideas as Christians or atheists or anyone else and government should protect that right.

The main teaching of Islam/Christianity is submit and obey god.
I have no problem with that BUT god must tell me directly. Not from someone else or from any books telling me which probably all made up ...

 

[kallipolis]

The main teaching of Islam/Christianity is submit and obey god.
I have no problem with that BUT god must tell me directly. Not from someone else or from any books telling me which probably all made up ...

The two great commandments invite us to love God, and love our neighbour, as our self.

When you eventually get round to listening to God, you will learn of his great love for you.

 

[Telstra]

The two great commandments invite us to love God, and love our neighbour, as our self.

When you eventually get round to listening to God, you will learn of his great love for you.

Sure thing kallipolis.
The whole bible/koran is reduced to one word "love".
That is good, i don't want to hear anything else from any preacher accept the word "love". That is, no bible say this and bible say that ...

Why don't we just replace all the words in the religious books with "love'.

 

[FirmaFan]

When you eventually get round to listening to God, you will learn of his great love for you.

When you listen to god, is it an audible voice? Is the voice of god projected straight into your head? How does one "get around" to listening to god, and how does one go about making sure they are speaking to the god they are wishing to communicate with (as nearly every god ever worshiped has had some follower proclaim to be communicating with it)?

 

[Telstra]

When you listen to god, is it an audible voice? Is the voice of god projected straight into your head? How does one "get around" to listening to god, and how does one go about making sure they are speaking to the god they are wishing to communicate with (as nearly every god ever worshiped has had some follower proclaim to be communicating with it)?

I'm sure when people "listen to god" they are normally talking to themselves or listening to their inner voice. Every human experienced that including all atheists.

 

[FirmaFan]

I'm sure when people "listen to god" they are normally talking to themselves or listening to their inner voice. Every human experienced that including all atheists.

What I find interesting is that whenever anyone claims to have spoken to god or claims that others have, the is absolutely no knowledge gained with regards to...well...anything that wasn't already known by the person claiming divine communication.

I rather enjoy those who like to say things like the bible stated scientific facts well before their actual discovery. Never once has anyone been able to provide an example where the knowledge could not have already been known given the times in which the bible was written.

 

[kallipolis]

Sure thing kallipolis.
The whole bible/koran is reduced to one word "love".
That is good, i don't want to hear anything else from any preacher accept the word "love". That is, no bible say this and bible say that ...

Why don't we just replace all the words in the religious books with "love'.

Love is the essence of our relationship with God, as love is the realisation of our relationship with our family, friends and those whom we come to love as our loving partners.

The finer details of our relationship with our neighbours requires us to spend our life time learning how to love. Through the experience of living we work out how best to love one another, that we also may be loved in return.

 

[NineOfClubs]

Any religion that demeans, negates, and bashes both women and gays is nothing but some sort of heterosexual male dominance scheme....

 

[kallipolis]

When you listen to god, is it an audible voice? Is the voice of god projected straight into your head? How does one "get around" to listening to god, and how does one go about making sure they are speaking to the god they are wishing to communicate with (as nearly every god ever worshiped has had some follower proclaim to be communicating with it)?

The experiences of the schizophrenic personality instruct us that those voices that speak in our head are as much a product of our vivid imagination, as they are of believing that we are Napoleon Bonaparte.

Then there is the experience of those who calmly accept that they are the recipients of words that could only be spoken by The Logos. That is a story as old as time it self.

 

[Deandbn]

allright, i appreciate everybody, and its very interesting to discuss these things, to correct some stereotypes and of course to make things clear. to exchange opinions also.

you might be like those muslims you told me about in your own way, rigid in thinking and not open to not leting me calling you brother.

for me you are my brother in humanity and everybody else.
cheers.

depends to the person really...

Thanks Bear Salam for not taking this personally which i am sure it is easy to do. I thnk you are probably a wonderful person thankfully not caught up in the jihad and hate and killing of the other moslems around the world. They have unfortunately lost their reputation. enough said.

 

[bankside]

The experiences of the schizophrenic personality instruct us that those voices that speak in our head are as much a product of our vivid imagination, as they are of believing that we are Napoleon Bonaparte.

Then there is the experience of those who calmly accept that they are the recipients of words that could only be spoken by The Logos. That is a story as old as time it self.

Your opinion is, noted!

 

[kallipolis]

Your opinion is, noted!

I am thrilled that you take note of my opinions.

 

[BearSalam]

Like others have said, I personally dislike Islam mostly for the same reasons I dislike other religions. But I also dislike those who would suggest that we take away religious freedom for Muslims and do not allow them to practice their religion, or build houses of worship, or participate in government, or any of that.

BearSalam and other muslims have just as much right to their religious ideas as Christians or atheists or anyone else and government should protect that right.

thank you so much for your wise words. I believe so. i believe in sechularism and each person way of life and opinions should be accepted and each racism and discrimination should be abolished.

 

[BearSalam]

Thanks Bear Salam for not taking this personally which i am sure it is easy to do. I thnk you are probably a wonderful person thankfully not caught up in the jihad and hate and killing of the other moslems around the world. They have unfortunately lost their reputation. enough said.

oh thank you mr Deandbn for your comments and for your contribution in which i really get deeply interested. i'm not caught up in jihad, hate or murder hopefully like most of the people on earth (including muslims, jews or communists and else...).
more than 95% of muslims are just people like you and me. And unfortunatly we keep focusing on these minor crazy jihadist bombers who represents evil people just like every one evil from different background. You must also know that the first victims of those bombers are muslims after all. terrorism that happened in algeria back in the time, in tunisia and in egypt has resulted the killing of muslims living there. (just to know that this is not the way muslims are and i think its more than obvious). and the media keep frightnin people everyday about these small stupid groups of criminals...

an arab proverb says : "The falling tree makes more noise than the forest grow"

and this is what exactly happening.

best wishes my friend! (i won't call you brother since you are not confortable with it...Respect)