North Carolina and Indiana

[syntax]

I think it is high time to remove Florida and Michigan from her arsenal. Cut Michigan's in half, give her 37 and Obama 27. Cut Florida's in half, give her 53 and Obama 33. That at least handles the pledged delegates and allows for the 'will of the people'. As for superdelegates, they have none. Problem solved.

Plouffe was feeling so confident in Obama's lead that he allowed that he would be willing to give Clinton the lion's share of the delegates from Michigan and Florida. She won both states, even though their primaries violated party rules and both candidates agreed to boycott them and have been arguing about the fairest way to seat the delegates ever since.

After long arguing that Clinton's wins were not legitimate and shouldn't benefit her in the delegate count, Plouffe said seating the delegations is "going to require us being generous and offering to give her some delegates."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080507/ap_on_el_pr/primary_analysis

 

[Kulindahr]

Wow -- I thought for sure Clinton was going to have Indiana by 8 - 10%. This has got to hurt!

 

[southern fox]

The whole talking point that Obama has "never been vetted" is thankfully as dead as a doornail with this victory.

He took the worst pounding in his political career, and had the hardest month of his campaign, and exceeded expectations with a glow, beating back Clinton from her greatest opportunity to cast him as unelectable.

 

[construct]

CNN has crunched some more numbers on the Indiana delegate race. They're now showing

Obama 33
Clinton 37
Remaining 2

Combining that with RCP's numbers for North Carolina, we get

Obama 96
Clinton 84
Remaining 7

Net gain of 12 for Obama so far.

 

[Kulindahr]

That Indiana vote is interesting -- looks to me as though with just a few more votes Obama could have had the popular win, but still have had fewer delegates.

Anyway, this is a net gain for Obama no matter where those other 7 delegates end up.

 

[NickCole]

The idea that blacks voting for Obama is racist is utter bullshit.

In any form of politics, people vote for their own, especially in a mold-breaking election. That African Americans are supporting one of their own at smashing down a racial barrier is hardly racism.

If that were true then 90% of whites would be voting for Hillary.

Obama and a troubling number of African Americans have turned this primary into voting about race and getting defensive about it.

It's not only selfish and divisive to choose to "vote for their own," rather than a more objective standard, it's playing right into the hands of Republicans.

 

[NickCole]

Clinton Wins Tiebreaker​

Hillary Clinton won the tiebreaker as defined by Barack Obama on April 11, 2008:

"I think Indiana is very important," Obama said. "We've got three contests coming up in pretty big states -- Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Indiana. They all have significant numbers of delegates, and they are states where Sen. Clinton and I are actively campaigning."

"You know, Sen. Clinton is more favored in Pennsylvania,” he added, “and I'm right now a little more favored in North Carolina, so Indiana right now may end up being the tiebreaker. So we want to work very hard in Indiana. While Sen. Clinton has some advantages here, I benefit coming from an adjoining state.”

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/11/878455.aspx

 

[MystikWizard]

It's laughable that Nick Cole is calling Indiana a win and a tiebreaker after squeaking by with such a dismal victory. It may be a tie-breaker in the sense that Hillary won Pennsylvania and Indiana while Obama won North Carolina, but certainly not in the Big Scheme of things.

And Nick, as far as your charge with Blacks, I charge the same thing to you with what White Women have done with Hillary in the sense of voting for "one of their own". It's the same thing, no matter how you look at it. No one side is better than the other.

But the Youth got out and voted, and the College-Educated got out and voted .... and they voted for Obama. Tim Russert said it best last night ... "We now know who the nominee is going to be." With how distracted Bill Clinton looked last night, I think the Clinton's know, as well.

 

[NickCole]

It's laughable that Nick Cole is calling Indiana a win and a tiebreaker after squeaking by with such a dismal victory.

Well that negative attack reveals more about you and Obama's support than about me.

You call it laughable but the fact is Indiana is a win for Hillary.

All the more so because it's in Obama's backyard, a large portion of the state is in Chicago's media market and Obama again outspent Hillary by a wide margin.

And I didn't call Indiana a tiebreaker, Barack Obama did.

 

[MystikWizard]

Well that negative attack reveals more about you and Obama's support than about me.

You call it laughable but the fact is Indiana is a win for Hillary.

All the more so because it's in Obama's backyard, a large portion of the state is in Chicago's media market and Obama again outspent Hillary by a wide margin.

And I didn't call Indiana a tiebreaker, Barack Obama did.

"Win" is just a word.

Who hauled in more total delegates last night?

Speaking of delegates, Mark Penn's very own words were "this race is about delegates".

Time to pack your bags. The race is over.

Stay home on Election Day, too while you're at it. You have caused enough trouble on this Forum promoting your Feminist Agenda popping up 5 negative Obama threads a day. You have demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt how you are the true divisive one with your distortions of the truth.

It's like I told Lancelva, and I don't know if he believed me or not at the time. The public is tired of that style of politics and all the spin associated with it. Now, after last night, maybe he will.

 

[NickCole]

"Win" is just a word.

Funny, I remember Obama said words have meaning.

I guess to Obama supporters words only have meaning when it suits your agenda.

Time to pack your bags. The race is over.

Pack what bags, and go where? I shouldn't come on this forum any more? Shouldn't participate in the primary, in the general election? This typical ObamaStyle message --exemplified by the droning Hillary should drop out mantra that's gone on for many weeks now-- is disgusting.

Stay home on Election Day, too while you're at it.

This is the message we've received from the Obama campaign.

It's very sad for the Democratic Party because not only is that divisive and dismissive and opposed to everything Democracy stands for, it is destuctive to a political party.

For better or worse, the way Republicans have won these past several years is by encouraging neocons, religious fundamentalists, country club conservatives to join together. Their Presidential campaigns reached out rather than this ugly shunning Obama supporters do. The Clintons always reached out, too, and that's why Bill Clinton won two terms when no other Democratic Presidential candidate could. But Obama inspires what you write to a Democrat: stay home on Election Day.

I won't stay home on election day. That's for sure.

 

[MystikWizard]

But Obama inspires what you write to a Democrat: stay home on Election Day.

I won't stay home on election day. That's for sure.

First of all, Obama didn't inspire me to write that. That was me and me alone.

You, along with Iman, have essentially attacked Obama creating several negative threads a day. You have shown through your spinning and distortions, and also through refusing to participate in the poll who who the losing candidate's supporters would support in the General Election ... that you do not care about the Democratic Party as a whole.

With supporters like you, who needs Republicans to go up against?

 

[naked gent]

Is it racism? . . . it would seem the polarization is growing.
Over 90% of the Black vote in NC is going to Obama . . . is it racism?; what if 90% of the White vote were going against him? wouldn't we call that racism?

The idea that blacks voting for Obama is racist is utter bullshit.

If that were true then 90% of whites would be voting for Hillary.

Obama and a troubling number of African Americans have turned this primary into voting about race and getting defensive about it.

I'm with Jack on this and allow me to explain why. I think the appropriate analogy for race when it comes to white voting is ethnicity, or in the case of Mitt Romney religion.

White ethnics do tend to vote for "their own" with Italians voting for italians and greeks voting for greeks. its about how you identify yourself in our society as in italian-american or african-american.

In Romney's case he got more than 90% of the mormon vote which mirrors the black vote for Obama.

Don't get me wrong this is not what we want a democracy to look like and we are dismayed to see it happen in Iraq where the sunnis vote for sunnis and the shia for shia and the kurds for kurds. To have voting just be a vehicle to display societal prejudices or fears only codifies those problems and to mature the society must get past them.

In this country to the degree that a particular group becomes assimilated they tend to stop voting as a group. In the 1960 election JFK received 83% of the catholic vote but I think if a catholic ran today he could not expect to see that kind of support just because of his religion as I believe John Kerry can attest to.

Thats why you can't compare the assimilated white vote to the black vote although it is true that in the 04 election white candidates received 100% of the white vote.

Black voters are acting just like all other group voters who have come before them have. Is it really reasonable or fair to expect them to act in any other way?

 

[sunoftheskye]

LOL, mad....

 

[NickCole]

Amazing.

Obama supporters have said Hillary is hated and her candidacy is destroying the Democratic Party, they've said Obama is a unifying candidate, an agent of change and a brighter future. And yet they're also saying it's up to Hillary to build a bridge.

It's very strange to expect the one characterized as hated and destructive to build a bridge rather than the unifier and agent of change they claim is electable.

But really this is what Obama and his supporters are about. They want to be viewed as unifiers but they don't want to do the work of unifying; they want to win but they don't want the responsibility of building; they want power but they rally around bumper sticker slogans rather than substantive plans.

This does not bode well if Obama is the nominee.

 

[naked gent]

This does not bode well if Obama is the nominee.

Nick I look forward to the day Obama is elected and reading a post of yours explaining what a disaster his presidency will be.

 

[JackFTwist]

I'm with Jack on this and allow me to explain why. I think the appropriate analogy for race when it comes to white voting is ethnicity, or in the case of Mitt Romney religion.

White ethnics do tend to vote for "their own" with Italians voting for italians and greeks voting for greeks. its about how you identify yourself in our society as in italian-american or african-american.

In Romney's case he got more than 90% of the mormon vote which mirrors the black vote for Obama.

Don't get me wrong this is not what we want a democracy to look like and we are dismayed to see it happen in Iraq where the sunnis vote for sunnis and the shia for shia and the kurds for kurds. To have voting just be a vehicle to display societal prejudices or fears only codifies those problems and to mature the society must get past them.

In this country to the degree that a particular group becomes assimilated they tend to stop voting as a group. In the 1960 election JFK received 83% of the catholic vote but I think if a catholic ran today he could not expect to see that kind of support just because of his religion as I believe John Kerry can attest to.

Thats why you can't compare the assimilated white vote to the black vote although it is true that in the 04 election white candidates received 100% of the white vote.

Black voters are acting just like all other group voters who have come before them have. Is it really reasonable or fair to expect them to act in any other way?

Wow. Great post. You got it. Thank you so much for saying it so well.

 

[sunoftheskye]

Accompanied by Fox News Youtube video, cut and pastes from Free Republic, links to WorldNetDaily, and scanned notes from his McCain '08 rallies.

A mess.

 

[MystikWizard]

McCain will be pleased to have your support in November.

Let's not forget it was her nastiness, her Rovian tactics, that has driven the wedge. It's just as much her party as his, so if she can forsake her cult of personality (chants of her name, "Yes SHE will"... really?) maybe this country will have a Democratic presidency in the fall. Until she lets that go, he can try to build a bridge but she'll keep burning them.

That's the thing.

I expect these Clinton supporters to be waiting there expecting the Obama supporters to come their way and beg for their support, after all they've done. Not going to happen, at least on my end.

If you Clinton supporters want to pout and stomp your feet about Hillary not winning, then go ahead and vote for McCain. Keep in mind that it's your country your throwing away to the Neocons and you are essentially granting Bush a third term. McCain has already stated that he will be in Iraq indefinitely and has joined Hillary in tough-talking Iran. The man won't do a damn thing to help the Economy and would be worse on Gay Rights than Obama.