NSA data mining

[tigerfan482]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

Thanks for that.

The EFF is probably the best source for legal considerations concerning the internet. That's a great summary of some of the latest information.

Of interest is the FISA court's statement that it cannot and does not police the NSA. While that should be obvious, I don't think most people appreciate that our spy agencies are operating without any real outside supervision. Even the Senate Intelligence Committee, which is supposed to oversee the NSA, did not know about the NSA's internal audit. The committee had to get the audit from The Washington Post!

That's beyond ridiculous.

Actually, the EFF is the WORST source for legal considerations concerning this topic, if for no other reason because they are clearly favoring one side. As stated before, their summary even misquotes and misattributes quotes to incorrect sources.

And the FISC's statements was not that it doesn't hold NSA accountable. It's statement is that it has to rely on information provided by NSA in its enforcement because it doesn't have resources to have someone in every operational location at every operational hour of the day every operational day of the year. This is no different than any other court in this country enforcing any other ruling or requirement. That's exactly what the chief judge of the FISC said. Every court must rely on the information provided to it in regards to compliance with court orders.

The 2,776 violations during 2012 occurred at a single NSA facility (Ft. Meade, Maryland). There are undoubtedly many thousands more violations occurring every year, nationwide.

Actually, I spoke to five friends I had and they said that report takes into account everything worldwide, since all of the data is reported back to Fort Meade to disseminate.

It is ridiculous to depend on an agency of any kind to regulate itself. As the NSA's own audit reveals, it has been lying to Congress about its own activities, and hiding from Congress its activity. Some sort of regulatory framework needs to be set up to keep these people under control.

It is becoming quite clear that Ed Snowden has done this nation an enormous service. A rather large portion of our federal government has been out of control for some time now, and no one was allowed to point that out to us.

Now, we need to do something about it.

The NSA doesn't regulate itself. The NSA self-monitors and self-reports compliance issues. The FISC and Congress regulate the NSA via laws and court orders. And the NSA audit does not reveal it has been lying to Congress. The mere fact that the report exists shows that the NSA isn't lying to Congress about anything. It's just as easy to put out a report saying "oh we've made no mistakes and everything is great." I would still like to see the rest of the report that the WP decided to withhold that contains all of the details of these compliance violations. What are they hiding from us? I mean since they're not revealing everything they know, they must be up to something bad correct?

And I would like to know exactly what you think the government is out of control on.

 

[tigerfan482]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

http://news.yahoo.com/under-fire-u-spy-agency-defends-surveillance-programs-000936926.html

Looks like there are some reasonable explanations for the report. One thing I want to point out that almost all articles I have read on this have said as well as the government is that there is no evidence of any intentional or willful violations of the law. That seems to shoot holes in the idea that the NSA is willfully lying to anyone or is engaged in doing whatever they want to do.

This article also says that NSA analysts make 20 million queries of intelligence databases every month, meaning that they make approximately 240 million queries a year. To have only 2700 compliance issues out of 240 million is absolutely amazing given the technical complexity and breadth of data they deal with. That's 0.000011% error. I think these guys are the real heroes, combing through this data trying to protect the people of this country and only having a 0.000011% rate of error.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

Actually, the EFF is the WORST source for legal considerations concerning this topic, if for no other reason because they are clearly favoring one side.

Objective reporting that offers a much more complete picture favours the truth...a worthwhile contribution to a debate in which the lackeys of the NSA spend their time misrepresenting the truth with reams of words calculated to deceive and distract.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

http://news.yahoo.com/under-fire-u-spy-agency-defends-surveillance-programs-000936926.html

One thing I want to point out that almost all articles I have read on this have said as well as the government is that there is no evidence of any intentional or willful violations of the law. That seems to shoot holes in the idea that the NSA is willfully lying to anyone or is engaged in doing whatever they want to do.

Your comfort factor must soar when sourcing articles that confirm your preconceived bias that the NSA can and does no wrong....

 

[tigerfan482]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

Objective reporting that offers a much more complete picture favours the truth...a worthwhile contribution to a debate in which the lackeys of the NSA spend their time misrepresenting the truth with reams of words calculated to deceive and distract.

I definitely agree. And once you find some objective reporting, let me know. It's definitely not the EFF. Having a preconceived bias (as you'll be noting in your next post) is the very definition of NOT being objective.

 

[tigerfan482]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

Your comfort factor must soar when sourcing articles that confirm your preconceived bias that the NSA can and does no wrong....

While that's not what the article says, I can definitely see we have a case of the pot calling the kettle black here. Just go ahead and replace "can and does no wrong" with "always does everything wrong" and we have your position.

 

[frankfrank]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

I put about as much credence in their statement that they've done no wrong, as in the FBI track record of internally investigating something like 150 in-custody killings, and they've said that 100% of the killings were justified.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

I put about as much credence in their statement that they've done no wrong, as in the FBI track record of internally investigating something like 150 in-custody killings, and they've said that 100% of the killings were justified.

Ah! but there are those posting here who believe, and insist that all should believe everything that the NSA expounds.... is the truth.

Fortunately, naivety is not infectious....

 

[tigerfan482]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

Fortunately, naivety is not infectious....

No but paranoia is.

 

[palbert]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

.... Actually, I spoke to five friends I had and they said that report takes into account everything worldwide, since all of the data is reported back to Fort Meade to disseminate.
....

One hop.

 

[palbert]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

No but paranoia is.

“Even a paranoid can have enemies.”

--Henry Kissinger

 

[kallipolis]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

No but paranoia is.

Only when drinking from the NSAs fountain of "truth."

 

[Rolyo85]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

Good thing there are enlightened people to share the Real Truth with us. Who needs facts when you have CONVICTION!

 

[kallipolis]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

Good thing there are enlightened people to share the Real Truth with us. Who needs facts when you have CONVICTION!

The "real truth" according to the NSAs apologists!!!!! Some truth...some deception.

 

[palbert]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

Good thing there are enlightened people to share the Real Truth with us. Who needs facts when you have CONVICTION!

It must be Real Truth if NSA's UK minions are using terrorism statutes to detain the partner of Glenn Greenwald for 9 hours and seize his belongings. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/18/glenn-greenwald-guardian-partner-detained-heathrow

Whichever edge of Hanlon's Razor you choose the NSA minions lose.

Convictions will follow when the NSA is held to account.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

Convictions will follow when the NSA is held to account.

I doubt that either will occur.

The NSAs pals in the UK are simply being good cousins.

 

[Corny]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

I don't think calling people paranoid or tinfoil hats makes any sense any more. We were just shown that 90% of the stuff that people easily used to dismiss as paranoia, is, in fact, true.

 

[Stardreamer]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

“This is a mournful discovery.
1)Those who agree with you are insane
2)Those who do not agree with you are in power.”
Phillip K. Dick

“Strange how paranoia can link up with reality now and then.”
Phillip K. Dick

“Paranoia is just the bastard child of fear and good sense." (Charlie)
"Poor thing. Let's adopt it, give it a last name and raise it right." (Jace)
"You want to get it a puppy, too?"
"Sure. We'll call it Panic. It and little Paranoia can play together at the park and scare the hell out of all the other kids.”
― D.D. Barant, Back from the Undead

“Paranoia is just having the right information.”
― William S. Burroughs

“My paranoia wasn't always right, but just to be on the safe side, I never went to sleep with a clown in the room.”
― Mark Henwick

I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code.
-Emo Phillips

The truly paranoid are rarely conned. <-- like that one.

I sincerely believe people talk about me. Mine would be a pretty meaningless existence if they didn't.

Why are some people terrified of "black helicopters" and don't even notice that they are being monitored almost constantly by the whole network of obvious surveillance cameras, credit cards, ATMs, EZpass, company ID/access cards, magazine subscriptions, SSNs, taxes, fees, video rentals, Internet firewall recording, 'cookies', ... ? <-- TRUTH!

Paranoia: the belief that someone cares.

When everyone is out to get you, paranoia is only good thinking.

"Paranoia is knowing all the facts."
- Woody Allen

Paranoia is a social disease--you get it from screwing other people.

"This is the Nineties, Bubba, and there is no such thing as Paranoia. It's all true."
- Hunter S Thompson

"Paranoia is only the leading edge of the discovery that everything in the world is connected."
- `The Illuminatus Trilogy'

The greater the concentration of power, the greater the paranoia it generates about its need to destroy everything outside itself.

"When everyone _is_ out to get to you, being paranoid isn't going to help." -
- Q, Star Trek: The Next Generation

 

[bankside]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

I don't think calling people paranoid or tinfoil hats makes any sense any more. We were just shown that 90% of the stuff that people easily used to dismiss as paranoia, is, in fact, true.

Pff. They're just using facts to make you think it's true.

 

[newbored]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

[...]NSA's UK minions are using terrorism statutes to detain the partner of Glenn Greenwald for 9 hours and seize his belongings. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/18/glenn-greenwald-guardian-partner-detained-heathrow

Whichever edge of Hanlon's Razor you choose the NSA minions lose.

Convictions will follow when the NSA is held to account.

Yeah, that incident was quite peculiar...

The 28-year-old was held for nine hours, the maximum the law allows before officers must release or formally arrest the individual. According to official figures, most examinations under schedule 7 – over 97% – last less than an hour, and only one in 2,000 people detained are kept for more than six hours.

Miranda was released, but officials confiscated electronics equipment including his mobile phone, laptop, camera, memory sticks, DVDs and games consoles.

Greenwald had this to say:

To detain my partner for a full nine hours while denying him a lawyer, and then seize large amounts of his possessions, is clearly intended to send a message of intimidation to those of us who have been reporting on the NSA[...]

This measure is without justification since it involves an individual against whom there are no charges that can legitimate the use of that legislation.[...]

Brazilian Government.

David's detention was unlawful and inexcusable. He was detained under a law that violates any principle of fairness and his detention shows how the law can be abused for petty, vindictive reasons.

"There is simply no basis for believing that David Michael Miranda presents any threat whatsoever[...]

Widney Brown, Amnesty International's senior director of international law and policy.