Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wealth

[Kulindahr]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

Obviously your reading and comprehension skills need improvement, kiddo. As a teen I did agricultural work. To go through school, I did what ever shit jobs were available, and was glad to get them.

I never needed a union goon to make anybody pay me more because I was always able and willing to work circles around any two people I ever met, and that effort was always, repeat always rewarded.

Spare me the marxist rhetoric. People join unions because they want something for nothing. Period.

Your retort against Kenny has some foundation: I was the first person ever to get a raise in the entire history of the first place I worked, because of higher quality and effort.

BUT that wouldn't happen today; the place is a temp-hole, a place that never keeps anyone long enough to have to give a raise, never rewards extra effort, indeed seemingly does its best to make sure everyone learns to never give more effort than that minimum wage without benefits is worth.

So your "Period" up there isn't so: people join unions because they want to be paid what they're worth, and to get work conditions befitting human beings.

But as I said, that's at the bottom, which is where unions still have their place -- at the tops they've become guilds, leeching everything they can get from the world around, like parasites uncaring whether they kill the host.

 

[Glafna]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

Unfortunately, you're right. Socialism will be the reality for the next 4 years. It's been creeping its way upon us for 40 years. Now that society has gotten used to a drop of water on their head very 4 seconds, it can get ratcheted up to 2 seconds. Those of us in our 40's can only hope we stave it off until we're gone.

What's amazing is how clearly divided we've let ourselves become. Note that those on JUB who are voting Obama primarily on Gay Rights issues are also embracing the other aspects of his platform. I find that odd. I see very few people who are disturbed by his "spread the wealth" comments and now the revelations that he's long been socialist in regards to wealth. And that acceptance is largely because many are drawn in on other issues.

Please note that Sweden has had Socialist leaders, one of whom was the most loved of all of them, and I believe that the Labor Party(correction?) in England is doing quite well. And then there is the NDP, which is often considered to be socialist, and their one of the big 5 political bodies in Canada.

Socialism is NOT BAD, it's when the power is abused by the leader that it gets bad. get that through your thick skull.

 

[Glafna]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

Actually, "small business" doesn't shoulder the tax burden. Most of the income tax revenue is shouldered by the richest in this country.

As for the "bail out" I agree. But given that the government contributed greatly to the problem there wasn't a lot of choice. I would have been all for letting the banks fail. If the stove is hot and you touch it, you get burned. Life's a bitch.

As for other countries being socialist. I really don't care. I'm not a world citizen first, I'm an American. And if it ever comes down to us or them, I'm with us.

While small business would shoulder some of the burden, it is my understanding that the corporations would be paying much much more.

 

[Glafna]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

Only two kinds of people need unions:

1. People who are too incompetent to hold a job on their own merits.
2. People who are too lazy to hold a job on their own merits.

There may be a 3rd category, people who simply want something for nothing, but that's probably a subset of 1 or 2 above.

Union greed has succeeded in driving the steel industry out of this country, and it has damn near succeeded in driving auto production out of this country.

The "right to work" laws are the only thing that protects workers from being enslaved by unions in those states smart enough to have such laws.

Your forgetting a 4. kind of person.

The person who doesn't want to end up getting fucked over, like my co-workers have been. One has been promised at least 32 hours a week, and is getting screwed over by the boss. Myself, they've edited my shifts so that I fall just under the requirement for full time benefits.

Your just so anti-socialist(you and nearly all Republicans and quite a few Democrats) that you don't want anything to do with Socialism. But your basing it off of the USSR under Stalin. As I've said before, look at Lenin when you want to think of a good socialist leader.

 

[HenryReardon]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Many unions can be like that but my parents, without the union at the university they taught at, would have been taken advantage of even more than they were. They were over-worked, screwed over and under-paid by the administration. The union stepped in and forced them to pay them what they deserved and now expect them to work crazy amounts of over time.

If your parents were teachers then they were presumably professionals.
The concept of professionals and the concept of unions are mutually exclusive.

The whole idea of "collective" bargaining is anti-American.

 

[HenryReardon]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

Your forgetting a 4. kind of person.

The person who doesn't want to end up getting fucked over, like my co-workers have been. One has been promised at least 32 hours a week, and is getting screwed over by the boss. Myself, they've edited my shifts so that I fall just under the requirement for full time benefits.

Your just so anti-socialist(you and nearly all Republicans and quite a few Democrats) that you don't want anything to do with Socialism. But your basing it off of the USSR under Stalin. As I've said before, look at Lenin when you want to think of a good socialist leader.

"Good socialist" now there's a truly redundant concept.

 

[wastingmymind]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

In don't wanna butt in in this thread, but can I just point out how socialism help ended child labour and advocated for a minimum wage as such. Those things can't be good.

 

[smelter]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

Kenny, the jaded philosophy of a HenryReardon can best be summed up in one sentence: 'I'm doing just fine, so why aren't the rest of you.'.

The view from the top is clear and its not meant to be shared with the great unwashed.

 

[HenryReardon]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

I've been working since I'm 13 years old,and have never had a boss that just walked up to me and said ''Kenny, I recognize the hard work and commitment you demonstrate,I'm gonna give you a raise''..Never happened Captain.

Did you ever once consider acquiring other skills and bettering yourself so you might one day be in such a position??????

 

[HenryReardon]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

I say the time is coming when people will take what is not given.

There lies revealed, the mentality of a looter.

If I can't have what I want, I'm okay with the government taking money at gunpoint from others so they can give it to me.

It puts you on the same moral plane as people who loot stores and shops during natural disasters or other emergencies.

My 'attitude' as you call it, is not a republican attitude. It is an American attitude.

My ancestors came to this country (most of them before 1750) for a variety of reasons; some to escape oppressive governments; some to worship as they pleased; and for a variety of other reasons; but mostly, for an opportunity to take care of themselves as they saw fit.

It is that attitude that has made this country the greatest in the world. Not perfect, far from it, but greater than anything has has been before.

That's an odd notion these days, the idea of taking care of oneself and one's own.

And it is that attitude that Obama and the left lunatic fringe of the democrat party are out to destroy.

 

[White Eagle]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

Ohhhhhhhhh I'm sorry you thought those were my thoughts. No those were the opinions of the McCain/Palin ticket:

John McCain: Here’s what I really believe, That when you reach a certain level of comfort, there’s nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.

Sarah Palin: A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, she told a visiting journalist—Philip Gourevitch, of this magazine—that “we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.” http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/11/03/081103taco_talk_hertzberg

I salute you, sir. It's fun to see a neocon fall for something that they believe in.

 

[White Eagle]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

And in the end, I still don't care.

What we've been doing for 8 years has been a big huge disaster, so let's give the other side a try now. All of you Republican supporters have been proven 100% wrong about everything. So it's time to just sit back, take your lumps, admit that voting for Dubya was the biggest mistake you made in your life and let people who aren't you fix what you've fucked up.

Very well said, and you, sir, get a big salute also. I don't think anyone has said it quite like this.

 

[naked gent]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

My 'attitude' as you call it, is not a republican attitude. It is an American attitude.

My ancestors came to this country (most of them before 1750) for a variety of reasons; some to escape oppressive governments; some to worship as they pleased; and for a variety of other reasons; but mostly, for an opportunity to take care of themselves as they saw fit.

Henry many people, perhaps even some of your ancestors, came to this country to escape exactly the same concentration of wealth which you keep defending. Ours was to be an egalitarian society which, among other things, means equality in economic rights which becomes less and less likely the more wealth is concentrated.

You do a disservice to many of those at the bottom of the economic ladder who physically work harder, and for much less, than those at the higher end of the ladder. You have a very narrow view of what makes a business successful exhibited by your belief that should small businesses see their tax rates increase slightly they will lay people off or won't be able to create more jobs.

If you own a small business and are making $400,000 a yr under Obama's plan your taxes will increase $5400 a yr......not so much that you'll fire anybody and not enough for you to hire anybody should you not have to pay it.

Further most businesses I know of are currently far more concerned with a possible loss of business because of a declining economy than they are with any possible tax increase no matter how much it concerns you. And that could force them to lay people off.

Good businessmen care about their customers as much as they care about themselves and if you own a restaurant, for instance, the fact that people are likely to be spending fewer nights out at your establishment is on your mind much more than tax policy.

As the supposed party of business you might think republicans might understand that but their incessant cry for tax cuts has blinded them to certain business realities. When Reagan ran in 1980 and wanted to reduce taxes the top tax rate was 70% and it was a disincentive. But today's republicans get themselves all worked up over whether the top rate should be 36% or 39.6% with the same zeal as those who opposed the 70% top rate and all they succeed in doing is making themselves look silly.

 

[beafous]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

I didnt realize that George Bush was in the House or Senate.

Oh wait, they both are controlled by the Democrats

He proposed the Bill.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Many unions can be like that but my parents, without the union at the university they taught at, would have been taken advantage of even more than they were. They were over-worked, screwed over and under-paid by the administration. The union stepped in and forced them to pay them what they deserved and now expect them to work crazy amounts of over time.

If your parents were teachers then they were presumably professionals.
The concept of professionals and the concept of unions are mutually exclusive.

The whole idea of "collective" bargaining is anti-American.

1. The concept of professionals and unions are not mutually exclusive: electricians, plumbers, masons and others are definitely professionals, but also have unions.
Okay, they actually have guilds, but they call them unions.
Any group providing services, skilled or not, can band together and form a union. The only limit, really, is being "management".

2. If collective bargaining is unAmerican, we have a problem: collective bargaining is an activity arising out of freedom of association, and if that is unAmerican, then there's no reason in principle that sodomy laws are wrong.
Actually, I'd call it very American: it says, "We own ourselves, and we're going to band together to get a good price for ourselves", or "We own ourselves, and we're not going to be treated like property".
Heck, that last one worked for starting a new country.....

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

"Good socialist" now there's a truly redundant concept.

If it's redundant, that means that the word "socialist" already means "good".

I doubt that's what you intended.

 

[smelter]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

If it's redundant, that means that the word "socialist" already means "good".

I doubt that's what you intended.

Gee, and for a moment there I thought Henry was converted ..... damn!!!

 

[Glafna]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

"Good socialist" now there's a truly redundant concept.

Heh, of course you ignored the rest of my post.. don't that figure.

And yes, he was a good socialist leader. First of all, he known that the country had to be eased into socialism, not forced into it. Second, he understood the concept of a good leader, and from what I remember from history class, he was not an agressor. Finally, he outright TOLD, in words and in voice, before his death, that Stalin is not to be trusted, and is not to be allowed to rise in power any further(paraphrasing). Unfortunately, there were too many power hungry fools who allied with Stalin, and eventually got removed.(one was banished and ended up with an ice-pick in his skull while in Mexico).

Seriously, all you are Henry is a good ole fashioned Socialist-phobe, raised on the thoughts that anything that isn't a Democratic Capitalist system is either evil or not an effective government.

 

[Glafna]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

Gee, and for a moment there I thought Henry was converted ..... damn!!!

If only, then I can stop arguing grade 10 history with him(at least grade 10 Canadian history). Seriously, wtf did you guys learn about Russia in school???

 

[Glafna]

Re: Obama 2001 Interview on NPR-Restribute the Wea

In don't wanna butt in in this thread, but can I just point out how socialism help ended child labour and advocated for a minimum wage as such. Those things can't be good.

How'd I miss this one... Lemme guess Henry, skimmed over it, right?