Obama admits that he is a Muslim.

[LittleDove]

It is a much older fraud than that.

I don't know that I'd necessarily consider mythology to be a fraud, even though it may not be true.

The Merovingians, like the Romans, were given an ancestry which stretched back to Troy. Alexander the Great was held to descend from Hercules and Achilles. The Lusignans counted a mermaid amongst their ancestry. The pre-Christian, pagan sacral Kings at Uppsala, the Ynglings, were held to descend from Freyr.

With greater or lesser degrees of plausibility, there have been attempts to derive the descent of Rollo, the founder of Normandy, and Rurik, the founder of Rus, later Russia, to the Ynglings. Be that as it may, the poet Alexander Pushkin and his wife were descendants of Rurik, in both cases through their mothers.

Amongst Pushkin's other descendants of British citizenship, one might note the Duchess of Abercorn, the Dowager Duchess of Westminster, and the Marquis of Milford Haven. The last, being a descendant of Queen Victoria stands closer to the throne than his cousins, who merely descend from the Electress Sophia.

Bringing this back to the topic of the thread, or to the reason it was posted, one might also note that Pushkin's maternal great-grandfather started life somewhere on the shores of Lake Chad, in present day Cameroon ... from whence he was kidnapped into slavery, taken to Istanbul, and later presented as a gift to Peter the Great. No doubt the possibility, however remote, that someone of African descent might sit on the British throne will be as horrifying to Ben as he finds that black man in the White House.

 

[Mariatenebre]

Thank you. I thought I was the only one rolling my eyes at the seemingly cut-n-paste reply on every anti-Muslim topic / quote.

I never see a post about the positives of his/her beliefs, but rather using absurd/obscure references so the poster never has to account for any shortcomings on their own religion while blasting all Abrahamic religions. The poster reminds me of most Libertarians I know. They are against everything that is wrong, and for everything that is right, knowing they will never have to actually perform or account for their actions. A "spitballer" I believe is what you call these people.

Why would anyone become a "pagan"? The poster certainly doesn't offer any constructive opinions other than "I know you are, but what am I" retort.

First of all I am not asking anyone to come over to my religion. Most Pagans do not seek converts nor do we force people to convert. What I have maintained is that one should look for benevolent Gods to worship as opposed to downright malicious, sexist, racist, homophobic and barbaric deities. When it comes to LGBT people there are actually LGBT Gods that accept gay people and most Abrahamic societies prior to the Abrahamic religions accepted LGBT people in various forms.

 

[Mariatenebre]

The only thing I would disagree with here is that Christianity in the U.S. has never stopped involving itself in politics. The right in this country IS a Christian Sharia Law movement. The reason you get people like the 'baggers with outsize influence is because moderate people who are Christians give them the benefit of every doubt usually, and Maria does have a (when she's not going over the top about it) point that it's up to moderate Muslims to deal with their runaway extremists.

But we also have to understand that Islam is a fig leaf in the Middle East for serious POLITICAL strife and division. ISIS doesn't exist because of Islam, it exists for political reasons.

That is nonsense ISIS exists because of Islam. Muslims were doing terrorism since Islam's inception because that is what the religion demands. Mohammad had Pagans and disbelievers killed, he introduced the many sexist ideas of his religion on to the people, he had gays executed, he threatened to burn people in their homes for disbelief. Ever heard of Abu Afaik and Asma Bint Marwan. Abu Afaik was a poet who criticized Mohammad and was killed. Asma Bint Marwan in turn wrote poetry against Mohammad for his violence and his followers found her and killed her while she was suckling her child. When they brought her head to Mohammad he stated that no two goats will lock horns over her. Since goats lock horns over any inconsequential thing this meant that her death to him was beyond insignificant. Islam spread over the world through jihad and forcibly converted and slaughtered disbelievers where ever Islam hit. Everything ISIS is doing Mohammad did. When it comes to the gay thing Abu Bakr aka the father of Mohammad's child bride Aisha had gays burned alive. Ali aka Mohammad's son in law had them stones and throne off of tall buildings just like ISIS. Before Islam you could be of any religion and go to Mecca and Medina and freely practice your religion. After Islam if you so much as show up with a cross, a Star of David or an image of a Pagan deity you risk your life. Hell non Muslims are not even allowed legally to enter Mecca because of the Quranic verse saying that non Muslims should be barred because they are unclean and yet before Islam anyone could enter Mecca and practice their faith. So pretending that ISIS is not Islamic or doesn't stem from Islamic ideology shows your ignorance.

Whether their religions are "conservative" or not is an arguable point, I doubt many Conservatives would agree that beheading has anything to so with Conservatism - certainly though whatever their religious antecedents their religions are being used to exert political agendas. This is not because Islam is inherently "Conservative," Muslims in the past have been extremely tolerant of other cultures, including Judaism - it's because what it's being used for now is political control. I'm not really disagreeing with you, I just don't think you've gone far enough.

I don't believe that they are even interested in controlling us - all of it, the brutality, the terrorism, the extremist, is all aimed at controlling other Muslims. A bunch of Muslims in the Middle East are angry, for a bunch of things from poverty to Colonialism, to factional strife inherent in thousands of years of ethnic conflict. They think the west exploited their resources to our own gain - and to be fair we did to a large degree. If we hadn't propped up the murderous Shah in Iran, there would have been no Ayatollah.

Theocracies popped up as some kind of Islamic Patriotism in my opinion. There are a whole host of things that went into the mix that created ISIS; but its impossible to say how ingrained theocracy is for most Arabs. We just don't know how many are casual Muslims, how many are just going along to get along or are outright non-religious, or how many are extremists.

Muslims have never been tolerant of other religions. Jews and Christians could live as dhimmis in Islam but at best lived in conditions similar to apartheid South Africa. Pagans and Atheists on the other hand had to convert to Islam or be killed. Islam is a Conservative religion. It is sexist, racist, anti gay and religiously intolerant and I can show verses from the Quran and Hadith backing up my point. The problem with Islamic societies is Islam itself as Islam promotes a very conservative world view. Even in many so called moderate Muslim nations homosexuality is illegal, women are denied equality and apostasy is still illegal all which can be traced back to Islamic doctrine. As for colonialism you ignore that Islam has colonized several nations. Muslims stole Mecca from the Arab Pagans, Medina from the Jewish Arabs, they stole Pakistan from the Hindus, Afghanistan from the Buddhists, Persia from the Zoroastrians and to this day occupy over half of Africa and still enslave Africans. Even before the US or Europe had anything to do with the Middle East Islam was still spreading through jihad and viciously oppressing non Muslims, women, LGBT people etc.

 

[Kabluey]

^ you're still trying to demonize every religion other than your own paganism, which is even kookier.

Should we similarly say all pagans believe in human sacrifice?

 

[Mariatenebre]

^ you're still trying to demonize every religion other than your own paganism, which is even kookier.

Should we similarly say all pagans believe in human sacrifice?

Except that not all Pagans believed or accepted human sacrifice. In fact we find instances of human sacrifice in the Abrahamic religions such as the case of Jepthah's daughter.

Further more this isn't a matter of what each individual Abrahamic believes but rather what the religion itself teaches.

 

[LittleDove]

Except that not all Pagans believed or accepted human sacrifice.

Whole hordes of them did or do. Without taxing myself too much, I could produce a list which would require monumental effort to scroll through, ranging from the dawn of history to the present day, and ranging throughout the known world, with the possible exceptions of Antarctica, where it's kind of too cold to do much else besides shiver, and Australia, of which I have to admit I know little.

And you yourself have noted that part of that eclectic portmanteau or grab-bag in which you profess to believe was nicked from one of those Abrahamic faiths which you so decry.

 

[Kabluey]

Except that not all Pagans believed or accepted human sacrifice. In fact we find instances of human sacrifice in the Abrahamic religions such as the case of Jepthah's daughter.

Further more this isn't a matter of what each individual Abrahamic believes but rather what the religion itself teaches.

So why do you keep on insisting all other religions be judged by their extremes?
It's incredible and untrue.

And you're kidding yourself if you really, really think every member of every religion is getting 'an education' on their faith. You're giving way too much credit to the power of religious leaders.
All people pick and choose what they believe. True indoctrination is a rare thing, but irrational hatred, as you demonstrate, is easy to muster against others.

 

[offthewall14420]

I want Obama's Jihad Certificate before I believe he's a Muslim.

 

[peeonme]

If the President were actually a Muslim, why would he "admit" it? Would he not rather announce it?
The very premise of your question is prejudicial.

 

[kallipolis]

If the President were actually a Muslim, why would he "admit" it? Would he not rather announce it?
The very premise of your question is prejudicial.

That's the purpose.

 

[Benvolio]

If the President were actually a Muslim, why would he "admit" it? Would he not rather announce it?
The very premise of your question is prejudicial.

He could never have been elected as a muslim, and would lose much of his support if he admitted it now. His muslim immigration surge would be seen for what it is. His pretended Christianity would be seen as a fraud, and his support for Rev. God-Damn-America Wright would be seen in a new light, even by his followers.

 

[Kulindahr]

So why do you keep on insisting all other religions be judged by their extremes?
It's incredible and untrue.

And you're kidding yourself if you really, really think every member of every religion is getting 'an education' on their faith. You're giving way too much credit to the power of religious leaders.
All people pick and choose what they believe. True indoctrination is a rare thing, but irrational hatred, as you demonstrate, is easy to muster against others.

Simple: because she isn't interested in truth, she's interested in making herself feel good. That's the root of the approach to religion that says to go out and find a god friendly to your personal sense of things, which is what she insists on. And once someone in that boat has chosen, the next step is to demonize every other position, insisting that the people who actually follow those other religions don't know what they actually teach. SO she picks the extremes because it suits her self-gratification to do so.

At root, it's a worship of self: there's no concern for whether the god chosen is real, or even plausible, just whether it suits the person. That means the god isn't a god at all, but a servant corralled into lifting up the person in his or her own eyes.

And the result of such self-worship is hatred of anything that would point out that the self in question is not worthy of worship.

 

[opinterph]

[President Obama’s] support for Rev. God-Damn-America Wright

 

[Mariatenebre]

Simple: because she isn't interested in truth, she's interested in making herself feel good. That's the root of the approach to religion that says to go out and find a god friendly to your personal sense of things, which is what she insists on. And once someone in that boat has chosen, the next step is to demonize every other position, insisting that the people who actually follow those other religions don't know what they actually teach. SO she picks the extremes because it suits her self-gratification to do so.

At root, it's a worship of self: there's no concern for whether the god chosen is real, or even plausible, just whether it suits the person. That means the god isn't a god at all, but a servant corralled into lifting up the person in his or her own eyes.

And the result of such self-worship is hatred of anything that would point out that the self in question is not worthy of worship.

Actually I do not worship my self. I worship the good and rewarding Gods. Whom I regard as real and think that they are real. However when it comes to claims of being real or not there is no proof that your God is any more or less real then the Gods I or anyone else worships. In fact historians show that Yahweh was derived from earlier Canaanite polytheism. In fact again most scientists and historians regard the Bible as being mythical on the most part. The Gods I worship are not servants rather I serve them however if I am going to pick a master and someone to serve It does me no service to pick a cruel and malicious God or a God that is homophobic, orders rampant genocides etc such as the God that you worship. It is of no service to a person to worship a cruel and downright evil god especially one that hates your very identity. The fact is that Yahweh utterly hates homosexuality so you are every bit illogical for worshiping a god that is hostile to your identity. Yahweh is over all a violent, sexist, racist, homophobic deity that anyone would be best to stay away from he is up there with such evil deities as Lamashtu, Apep, Ares etc.

 

[gsdx]

He could never have been elected as a muslim, and would lose much of his support if he admitted it now.

That's where we differ from you. We don't have a Muslim prime minister, but we have Muslims in parliament. In fact, my elected MP (Member of Parliament) is a both a Muslim and an immigrant (Afghanistan), and she is a member of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's cabinet as Minister of Democratic Institutions.

Your hatred, along with Trump's and his supporters', keep racism and bigotry alive.

 

[Kabluey]

Actually I do not worship my self. I worship the good and rewarding Gods. Whom I regard as real and think that they are real. However when it comes to claims of being real or not there is no proof that your God is any more or less real then the Gods I or anyone else worships. In fact historians show that Yahweh was derived from earlier Canaanite polytheism. In fact again most scientists and historians regard the Bible as being mythical on the most part. The Gods I worship are not servants rather I serve them however if I am going to pick a master and someone to serve It does me no service to pick a cruel and malicious God or a God that is homophobic, orders rampant genocides etc such as the God that you worship. It is of no service to a person to worship a cruel and downright evil god especially one that hates your very identity. The fact is that Yahweh utterly hates homosexuality so you are every bit illogical for worshiping a god that is hostile to your identity. Yahweh is over all a violent, sexist, racist, homophobic deity that anyone would be best to stay away from he is up there with such evil deities as Lamashtu, Apep, Ares etc.

I'd tend to agree with Kuli, given religion is about what you choose to believe, I think you project a lot of evil on others while elevating yourself.

That's not healthy, and it explains your inexplicable judgment of countless others.


Back to the topic, racists clearly wanted Obama to be everything they projected on to him. Mariatenebre's unsubstantiated claims made against other religions are much the same.
They want to believe that people they irrationally dislike are 'bad' for reasons they believe are rational.

Instead of accepting they just demonize others without cause.

 

[Benvolio]

Yeah but he stayed in Wrights church listening to his hate filled speeches for 20 years, and supporting it, and only left when it became an election issue.

 

[opinterph]

Yeah but he stayed in Wrights church listening to his hate filled speeches for 20 years

Then-Senator Obama addressed that issue in the video.

 

[Benvolio]

Yeah, right. Wright preached hatred but Obama magically happened not to be there on those days.

 

[TX-Beau]

Yeah, right. Wright preached hatred but Obama magically happened not to be there on those days.

Ben does realize that Obama isn't running, right?