Obama admits that he is a Muslim.

[Mariatenebre]

And you are going to be absolutely shocked how little conservative Jews support "women's" rights, and what they thinak about women who weren't born with vaginas. Oh right, according to those Jews, they aren't women at all.

First of all I don't like Judaism either. I hate all of the Abrahamic and Zoroastrian religions. However Israel since it was mentioned does not base it's laws on the Torah. They do not kill people namely fellow Jews for choosing to worship other Gods or no God at all. They have an annual gay pride parade and transsexuals like me get free hormones. They do not base their laws on the Torah. Yes I am aware that certain Jews are very theocratic and sexist, racist, homophobic etc. I hate them as well. However I will say something about Jews that separates them from non Jews. Most Jews have no desire to convert disbelievers and non Jews. They have no interest in forcing us to accept their religion the same can not be said of Christians and Muslims who openly seek converts and try to force disbelievers to live and worship the way their religion demands. Also I do not like conservative Jews anymore then conservative Christians or Muslims. Judaism is a brutal misogynist, racist, sexist and homophobic religion as are all of the Abrahamic religions. However many Jews like certain more Liberal Christians and Muslims do not believe in all of the negative things their religions teach. This however does not change the fact that these religions teach many cruel and evil things and should be open to criticism.

I note that you have elected to change your pedigree.

First of all I have never stated that I was a secular Jew. I have been open with my Paganism and worship of the Divine Mother. I have no interest in converting to Judaism nor do I hold the religion any love.

 

[Kabluey]

I'd assumed you were anti religion.
Given the context that you're disputing competing beliefs, rather than all beliefs, your arguments have some rationale.

I disagree with your intolerance towards others.

 

[Kulindahr]

Actually I am a Pagan which worships quite a few Gods but worships the Blessed Virgin Mary/Tonantzin/Chaos/Neith/Sophia/Athirat/Allat as the Supreme Deity.

That degree of syncretism demonstrates no regard for logic or consistency.

 

[TX-Beau]

First of all I don't like Judaism either. I hate all of the Abrahamic and Zoroastrian religions. However Israel since it was mentioned does not base it's laws on the Torah. They do not kill people namely fellow Jews for choosing to worship other Gods or no God at all. They have an annual gay pride parade and transsexuals like me get free hormones. They do not base their laws on the Torah. Yes I am aware that certain Jews are very theocratic and sexist, racist, homophobic etc. I hate them as well. However I will say something about Jews that separates them from non Jews. Most Jews have no desire to convert disbelievers and non Jews. They have no interest in forcing us to accept their religion the same can not be said of Christians and Muslims who openly seek converts and try to force disbelievers to live and worship the way their religion demands. Also I do not like conservative Jews anymore then conservative Christians or Muslims. Judaism is a brutal misogynist, racist, sexist and homophobic religion as are all of the Abrahamic religions. However many Jews like certain more Liberal Christians and Muslims do not believe in all of the negative things their religions teach. This however does not change the fact that these religions teach many cruel and evil things and should be open to criticism.



First of all I have never stated that I was a secular Jew. I have been open with my Paganism and worship of the Divine Mother. I have no interest in converting to Judaism nor do I hold the religion any love.

You can criticize all you want, my beef with you is that until absolutely pushed, you make blanket assertions about ONLY ONE religion, that are absurd, then when you get criticized for your intolerance you try and push people like me into some kind of complicity with ISIS rather than see that you were behaving exactly like a Fundamentalist yourself.

 

[Mariatenebre]

That degree of syncretism demonstrates no regard for logic or consistency.

You seem to forget that the ancient Pagans frequently identified their Gods with the Gods of foreign peoples. Aphrodite for instance was identified with the Goddesses Hathor, Lakshmi, Freya, Astarte etc. Also Apollo for instance was identified with the Gods Nergal, Resheph etc. Interesting enough your God Yahweh was identified with the monster Typhon in Greece because of his jealousy and desire to be the sole deity. All though during the Hebrew period Yahweh was identified with his father El Elyon and inherited his former Mother Athirat or Asherah as his wife.

You can criticize all you want, my beef with you is that until absolutely pushed, you make blanket assertions about ONLY ONE religion, that are absurd, then when you get criticized for your intolerance you try and push people like me into some kind of complicity with ISIS rather than see that you were behaving exactly like a Fundamentalist yourself.

Actually I criticize all of the Abrahamic religions frequently and call out the negative teachings in their doctrines further more I have never made an assertion about these religions that was not based in what their texts actually state.

 

[rareboy]

Hey.

Why does every thread you participate in always end up with you repeating the exact same things over and over and over again?

Do you have any other subject that you have an opinion on besides your hatred of Abrahamic religions?

Somehow this thread which was about the nonsense of Obama still being suspected of being a pork eating muslim by the alt.right ends up being the same old hobby horse getting the shit whipped out of it.

 

[PacificBeach]

Why does every thread you participate in always end up with you repeating the exact same things over and over and over again?

Do you have any other subject that you have an opinion on besides your hatred of Abrahamic religions?

Thank you. I thought I was the only one rolling my eyes at the seemingly cut-n-paste reply on every anti-Muslim topic / quote.

I never see a post about the positives of his/her beliefs, but rather using absurd/obscure references so the poster never has to account for any shortcomings on their own religion while blasting all Abrahamic religions. The poster reminds me of most Libertarians I know. They are against everything that is wrong, and for everything that is right, knowing they will never have to actually perform or account for their actions. A "spitballer" I believe is what you call these people.

Why would anyone become a "pagan"? The poster certainly doesn't offer any constructive opinions other than "I know you are, but what am I" retort.

 

[Kabluey]

You seem to forget that the ancient Pagans frequently identified their Gods with the Gods of foreign peoples. Aphrodite for instance was identified with the Goddesses Hathor, Lakshmi, Freya, Astarte etc. Also Apollo for instance was identified with the Gods Nergal, Resheph etc. Interesting enough your God Yahweh was identified with the monster Typhon in Greece because of his jealousy and desire to be the sole deity. All though during the Hebrew period Yahweh was identified with his father El Elyon and inherited his former Mother Athirat or Asherah as his wife.

Actually I criticize all of the Abrahamic religions frequently and call out the negative teachings in their doctrines further more I have never made an assertion about these religions that was not based in what their texts actually state.

To be honest, I've parked you and your opinions on other religions into the unreasonable category.

I think paganism is a crank belief system that's no more rational than those you're criticising.

 

[jbrown329]

Well, I'm a Pastafarian myself. Ra'men!

 

[Kabluey]

Well, I'm a Pastafarian myself. Ra'men!

Tell that to the flying spaghetti monster.

 

[Telstra]

To avoid being accused of ...
Which thread should a post this link ?

Foreign fighters hate every they grown up with and hate where they came from ....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-...gn-fighters-most-violent-captives-say/7827518

 

[jbrown329]

Tell that to the flying spaghetti monster.

I do, and I'm always wearing my proper colander when I do so.

 

[Sausy]

The basic problem with Islam is the deep ingrained influence of religious conservatism on state matters. Thankfully in Western nations there has been a evolution from religious/state involvement to a separation from each other, though Christianity has had a terrible record until recent times with regards to twisting religion to serve political agendas, and there is still the push from religious right wingers to exert more control in every day policy. The GOP is largely a Christian right party these days... however as long as there's vigilance they stand little chance of getting their worst instincts codified into law.

I am not anti religion myself, and know there are countless numbers of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc who live their lives trying to do good and who don't subscribe to narrow, bigoted, repressive interpretations of their faiths. As well as there are other faiths as well as no religious affiliation, or even belief, who live their lives with a strong sense of ethics and try to do what is right.


As for the topic on hand, sorry Ben... don't lie and say that President Obama says he's Muslim. It's clickbait... based an a joke you totally present out of context, and just outright doesn't even warrant serious discussion. I think I read here you're not even an American.. if true why the hey do you care so much?

 

[TX-Beau]

The basic problem with Islam is the deep ingrained influence of religious conservatism on state matters. Thankfully in Western nations there has been a evolution from religious/state involvement to a separation from each other, though Christianity has had a terrible record until recent times with regards to twisting religion to serve political agendas, and there is still the push from religious right wingers to exert more control in every day policy. The GOP is largely a Christian right party these days... however as long as there's vigilance they stand little chance of getting their worst instincts codified into law.

I am not anti religion myself, and know there are countless numbers of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc who live their lives trying to do good and who don't subscribe to narrow, bigoted, repressive interpretations of their faiths. As well as there are other faiths as well as no religious affiliation, or even belief, who live their lives with a strong sense of ethics and try to do what is right...

The only thing I would disagree with here is that Christianity in the U.S. has never stopped involving itself in politics. The right in this country IS a Christian Sharia Law movement. The reason you get people like the 'baggers with outsize influence is because moderate people who are Christians give them the benefit of every doubt usually, and Maria does have a (when she's not going over the top about it) point that it's up to moderate Muslims to deal with their runaway extremists.

But we also have to understand that Islam is a fig leaf in the Middle East for serious POLITICAL strife and division. ISIS doesn't exist because of Islam, it exists for political reasons.

 

[kallipolis]

ISIS doesn't exist because of Islam, it exists for political reasons.

A means to an end....political control.

 

[Sausy]

The only thing I would disagree with here is that Christianity in the U.S. has never stopped involving itself in politics. The right in this country IS a Christian Sharia Law movement. The reason you get people like the 'baggers with outsize influence is because moderate people who are Christians give them the benefit of every doubt usually, and Maria does have a (when she's not going over the top about it) point that it's up to moderate Muslims to deal with their runaway extremists.

But we also have to understand that Islam is a fig leaf in the Middle East for serious POLITICAL strife and division. ISIS doesn't exist because of Islam, it exists for political reasons.

That's why I said constant vigilance is necessary and added the GOP is largely dominated by the religious right, who do want to impose an authoritarian Christian regime. Of course religion is an excuse for political agendas, not the be all and end all in itself... just saying that in Islamic dominant countries, very conservative beliefs are more institutionally ingrained compared to the West, where at least there are formal constitutions and democratic institutions and has developed a much more secularized culture towards how we are governed.

 

[TX-Beau]

That's why I said constant vigilance is necessary and added the GOP is largely dominated by the religious right, who do want to impose an authoritarian Christian regime. Of course religion is an excuse for political agendas, not the be all and end all in itself... just saying that in Islamic dominant countries, very conservative beliefs are more institutionally ingrained compared to the West, where at least there are formal constitutions and democratic institutions and has developed a much more secularized culture towards how we are governed.

Whether their religions are "conservative" or not is an arguable point, I doubt many Conservatives would agree that beheading has anything to so with Conservatism - certainly though whatever their religious antecedents their religions are being used to exert political agendas. This is not because Islam is inherently "Conservative," Muslims in the past have been extremely tolerant of other cultures, including Judaism - it's because what it's being used for now is political control. I'm not really disagreeing with you, I just don't think you've gone far enough.

I don't believe that they are even interested in controlling us - all of it, the brutality, the terrorism, the extremist, is all aimed at controlling other Muslims. A bunch of Muslims in the Middle East are angry, for a bunch of things from poverty to Colonialism, to factional strife inherent in thousands of years of ethnic conflict. They think the west exploited their resources to our own gain - and to be fair we did to a large degree. If we hadn't propped up the murderous Shah in Iran, there would have been no Ayatollah.

Theocracies popped up as some kind of Islamic Patriotism in my opinion. There are a whole host of things that went into the mix that created ISIS; but its impossible to say how ingrained theocracy is for most Arabs. We just don't know how many are casual Muslims, how many are just going along to get along or are outright non-religious, or how many are extremists.

 

[jbrown329]

That's why I said constant vigilance is necessary and added the GOP is largely dominated by the religious right, who do want to impose an authoritarian Christian regime. Of course religion is an excuse for political agendas, not the be all and end all in itself... just saying that in Islamic dominant countries, very conservative beliefs are more institutionally ingrained compared to the West, where at least there are formal constitutions and democratic institutions and has developed a much more secularized culture towards how we are governed.

It's a bit dated (hasn't been updated in a few years), but it's relevant.
http://www.theocracywatch.org/

 

[Benvolio]

That's why I said constant vigilance is necessary and added the GOP is largely dominated by the religious right, who do want to impose an authoritarian Christian regime. Of course religion is an excuse for political agendas, not the be all and end all in itself... just saying that in Islamic dominant countries, very conservative beliefs are more institutionally ingrained compared to the West, where at least there are formal constitutions and democratic institutions and has developed a much more secularized culture towards how we are governed.

Nonsense. The US was a very religious country for 200 years and became the greatest country in history, and the leading democracy. The conservatives have never wanted an authoritarian country. It is the liberals who want total control including an end to religion.

 

[Kulindahr]

Whether their religions are "conservative" or not is an arguable point, I doubt many Conservatives would agree that beheading has anything to so with Conservatism - certainly though whatever their religious antecedents their religions are being used to exert political agendas. This is not because Islam is inherently "Conservative," Muslims in the past have been extremely tolerant of other cultures, including Judaism - it's because what it's being used for now is political control. I'm not really disagreeing with you, I just don't think you've gone far enough.

This is why I have patiently pointed out over the years that what is called "conservative" Christianity in the United States is no conservative, but radical and reactionary. Martin Luther foresaw what the Radical Reformation would give birth to, and it wasn't freedom! It has an inherent totalitarian streak, one swept under the rug in American history classes for kids, where they purposely don't point out that what most of the religiously-motivated settlers in America wanted wasn't religious freedom, but to be the ones persecuting the others. The Puritans are held up as an example of liberty, but they were just totalitarians of their own stripe seeking a place to be the top dogs.

And we have come to face that true heritage.