On-Topic Obama In 1998: "I Actually Believe In Redistribution"

[JayHawk]

BTW trying to convince a military guy that socialism doesn't work is idiocy. I get free healthcare, free school, guaranteed home loans, reduced interest rates, special insurance rates, discounts at most stores, a special no tax store to shop in, job placement assistance, job training, guaranteed pension, hiring preference in government jobs, a tax free food allowance, a tax free clothing allowance, tax free housing allowance, guaranteed +1% cola, and probably innumerable other benefits that I am forgetting off the top of my head.

 

[Kulindahr]

The objection against redistribution of income is an appeal for anarchy, for the simple reason that the moment you have any government at all, you're redistributing -- well, unless all government buildings are donated, along with salaries, etc., and the military is privately financed, and so on.

Government builds a road? Wealth just got redistributed, and will continue to do so, because the people where that road is now have an advantage. Government puts in a park? Wealth just got redistributed. Government chooses a capital city? Wealth just got redistributed.

Even if you have a volunteer government with no pay and no benefits, government can't make a move without redistributing wealth -- it can't be done. The only question is what will be redistributed and how and why.

 

[chance1]

It's an old tape

But consistent with his actions in trying to get re-elected

And his unwillingness to touch entitlements despite the Simpson Bowles recommendations

Redistribution is a zero sum tax game

With likely enormously negative implications on jobs and economic growth

So many off topic posts by the usual suspects

 

[BostonPirate]

Simpson Bowles will see action in the lame duck, sometime in late November.

 

[CoolBlue71]

And, in my opinion, he is the best politician in very possibly the history of the United States, if not the world. I agree with him as close to 100% as it can ever possibly get.

Bernie Sanders (Ind./D-Vermont) is the best in the U.S. Senate. The fact that jackoroe may not like him makes it very obvious that those who are liberal, and prefer the Democratic over the Republican party, can laugh and dismiss any and every Republican and so-called conservative who tries to, momentarily, state that there is something about Mr. Sanders that is not acceptable.

 

[CoolBlue71]

Again a whole thread using "socialist" as an insult.

The U.S. has been offering up forms of socialism, one way followed by another, throughout much of its history.

Republicans wanting to prop up corporatism and wealth, meaning the haves, while dismissing the have-nots … all the while coming from individuals in the electorate who are among the ranks of the have-nots … should be given little or no attention.

 

[Jack Springer]

BTW trying to convince a military guy that socialism doesn't work is idiocy. I get free healthcare, free school, guaranteed home loans, reduced interest rates, special insurance rates, discounts at most stores, a special no tax store to shop in, job placement assistance, job training, guaranteed pension, hiring preference in government jobs, a tax free food allowance, a tax free clothing allowance, tax free housing allowance, guaranteed +1% cola, and probably innumerable other benefits that I am forgetting off the top of my head.

... and they say there is no room to cut defense spending.

 

[Benvolio]

Socialism is government or control of the means of production. It does not work because it destroys the incentive to innovate, create and build. Capitalism works because it harnesses the individuals desire to benefit himself and his family for the benefit of all. It is that motivation which inspires and drives people to innovate and create and compete in doing so.
The roads, lights, water, etc are natural monopolies, not amenable to competition-- you cannot have multiple water systems to each home. The military, police, and fire departments are exercizes of governmental power, not amenable to competition, and are not " means of production."
Capitalism works for all, and the US still has the highest median household income, or one of them, even though it. Is the third largest country. It is idiocy to tear down our system when we know socialism cannot do as well.

 

[chrisrobin]

Bernie Sanders (Ind./D-Vermont) is the best in the U.S. Senate. The fact that jackoroe may not like him makes it very obvious that those who are liberal, and prefer the Democratic over the Republican party, can laugh and dismiss any and every Republican and so-called conservative who tries to, momentarily, state that there is something about Mr. Sanders that is not acceptable.

Just for the record, Sen. Sanders regards himself as an independent and yes, he is the best. The fact that jackoroe doesn't like him is to the senator's credit.

 

[jackoroe]

BTW trying to convince a military guy that socialism doesn't work is idiocy. I get free healthcare, free school, guaranteed home loans, reduced interest rates, special insurance rates, discounts at most stores, a special no tax store to shop in, job placement assistance, job training, guaranteed pension, hiring preference in government jobs, a tax free food allowance, a tax free clothing allowance, tax free housing allowance, guaranteed +1% cola, and probably innumerable other benefits that I am forgetting off the top of my head.

Free? Really? What you have is a contractual agreement between yourself and the US government. In exchange for your labor and service, you recieved payment and benefits including those you've enumerated. Nothing you are receiving was free, you labored in exchange for these benefits.

 

[jackoroe]

Just for the record, Sen. Sanders regards himself as an independent and yes, he is the best. The fact that jackoroe doesn't like him is to the senator's credit.

Very few Socialists admit to being so.

 

[Benvolio]

Benvolio,

It seems you believe in a false dichotomy between socialism and capitalism.

What is social democracy?

Social democracy is an idealogy that socialism is preferable, but that it can be achieved by gradual evolution. It fails the recognize the importance of individual initiative. It fails to see that economic freedom is an important part of civil rights.

 

[Centexfarmer]

My Grandpa always use to say, "The early bird might catch the worm, but the second mouse always gets the cheese."

 

[rareboy]

Free? Really? What you have is a contractual agreement between yourself and the US government. In exchange for your labor and service, you recieved payment and benefits including those you've enumerated. Nothing you are receiving was free, you labored in exchange for these benefits.

You can't have it both ways.

These are some of the 'entitlements' that make the military part of the 47% of Americans that Mitt can't be bothered with.

Just like Old Age Security is the return on the investment made by workers over the years they worked.

It is a contract between the Government and the People.

But it is socialism. Pure and simple.

 

[jackoroe]

You can't have it both ways.

These are some of the 'entitlements' that make the military part of the 47% of Americans that Mitt can't be bothered with.

Just like Old Age Security is the return on the investment made by workers over the years they worked.

It is a contract between the Government and the People.

But it is socialism. Pure and simple.

Nonsense. Soldiers and veterans aren't stupid. They understand the difference between benefits they agreed to work for in order to recieve, and layabouts. They aren't particularly supportive of the Dear Leader, either.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...12/among_military_veterans_romney_59_obama_35

 

[BostonPirate]

Nonsense. Soldiers and veterans aren't stupid. They understand the difference between benefits they agreed to work for in order to recieve, and layabouts. They aren't particularly supportive of the Dear Leader, either.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...12/among_military_veterans_romney_59_obama_35

Apparently Fuhrer Romney disagrees with you.

 

[rareboy]

Socialism is government or control of the means of production. It does not work because it destroys the incentive to innovate, create and build. Capitalism works because it harnesses the individuals desire to benefit himself and his family for the benefit of all. It is that motivation which inspires and drives people to innovate and create and compete in doing so.
The roads, lights, water, etc are natural monopolies, not amenable to competition-- you cannot have multiple water systems to each home. The military, police, and fire departments are exercizes of governmental power, not amenable to competition, and are not " means of production."
Capitalism works for all, and the US still has the highest median household income, or one of them, even though it. Is the third largest country. It is idiocy to tear down our system when we know socialism cannot do as well.

So you are proving that you have no clue about what modern socialism really is, aren't you?

You are proving that you have no concept that much of the underpinnings of infrastructure are examples of socialism in the service of capitalism.

Wow. No clue at all.

 

[JayHawk]

What I am saying Jackaroe is that ALL American workers should be afforded the same decency in return for their labor. Private corporations found that spiraling out of control cost make that impossible to offer anymore so the government must step in to make available services that are necessities for a fully functional modern workforce and yet cannot be provided for from the private till.


And Jack Springer you wont get from me that the military does not need to be cut. It needs deep cuts in certain areas. One of which is not the benefits of the very few who are both qualified and willing to serve this country. It does not need a trillion of arbitray across the board cuts with no rules. None of the programs currently funded deserve to be cut in that manner unless they are completely useless and then they should be cut in their entirety.

 

[Centexfarmer]

"Ive been on food stamps and welfare. Anyone help me out? No."

Except the rest of us who were having our "wealth redistributed" to pay for those food stamps and welfare.

Are we seriously now living in a country where at any given time as many as 50.1% of voting age Americans are actual fuctards?

And don't even get me started on the "Hollywood Elite" in this country.

 

[chrisrobin]

Very few Socialists admit to being so.

Sen. Sanders ran for the Senate on the Socialist ticket.