Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benediction

[Kulindahr]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

But the fact Obama picked a progay clergy....cool! i guess?

That kinda tells Warren & Co., "You may be on the platform, but it isn't your platform."

 

[Backlum-Chaam]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

That kinda tells Warren & Co., "You may be on the platform, but it isn't your platform."

Very true. And the fact that Lowery gets the benediction, appearing after Warren - the "last word", if you will - could have a greater structural impact on the actual tone of the evening than angry progressives like myself may have first predicted.

Based on timing and the climactic line-up, I'm predicting deafening cheers (yes, during a prayer) if Lowery makes any sort of positive reference to gays in his benediction... And, judging by Coretta Scott King's funeral, he totally has the balls to try it.

 

[Backlum-Chaam]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

I don't think most Americans are going to be disecting Obama's innaug. program like you suggest...

I never suggested that most Americans will be dissecting it. Of course they won't; that was exactly my point.

Lowery appearing last lends a subliminal narrative structure to the evening. It will have less of an impact for viewers who do try to dissect the evening or second-guess its Joseph Campbell structure. Last heard = last word. The evening will build up and "point" to Lowery's benediction.

Not sure what you mean by "bizarre" - Obama knows exactly what he's doing when it comes to political theatre, it was built into every step of his presidential campaign. And in this case, while I'm angered by the set-up, I can only trust Obama's proven talents for delivering the payoff.

 

[JackFTwist]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

wow

just wow

a thread about a very prominent minister who will be giving the benediction at the inauguration, a civil rights legend who us adamently pro gay and no wants to discuss that

instead

the great white benevolent bwana is upset because people of color are not beholden enough to him for his selfless selfless service to the coloured people

and bwana and other people keep fighting the same battles they have going in other threads


seems like people cannot get out of their own issues to look at the larger picture or consider something that is outside their preconceived stereotypes


had this been an anti gay minister there would all kinds of comment

but a pro gay minister - a minister of color - is someone to be ignored because bwana and others would rather feel sorry for their generous selves and/or keep fighting the same battles over and over and over

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

Very true. And the fact that Lowery gets the benediction, appearing after Warren - the "last word", if you will - could have a greater structural impact on the actual tone of the evening than angry progressives like myself may have first predicted.

Based on timing and the climactic line-up, I'm predicting deafening cheers (yes, during a prayer) if Lowery makes any sort of positive reference to gays in his benediction... And, judging by Coretta Scott King's funeral, he totally has the balls to try it.

That sort of thing doesn't really belong in a benediction, it belongs in a sermon. I've heard preachers do it very elegantly, though; if he can pull that off, I might give a cheer.

 

[NickCole]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

In signing or not signing legislation yes, but nothing of Warren's invitaton to Washington by Obama creates policy against gays.

Yes I know. As I've said in the thread about Warren, my outrage about Rick Warren and the inauguration isn't so much about gay rights as it is about civil rights. The inauguration is supposed to be a celebration for all of us that a new President is taking over, a President who's promised change and unity and equal rights. There should be no speaker invited who has worked to diminish the rights of anybody. There should be nobody invited who's worked to take rights away from gays or blacks or Jews or women or anybody else.

Obama invited a man who helped pass Prop 8, which took away the right of gays to marry. That's a slap to the face of civil rights.

 

[Passion4Muzik]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

I'd like to ask what the significance is of the inclusion of Rick Warren at the inauguration? Whether you agree with him or not, how is that inclusion going to actually affect your life?

 

[iman]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

[/i]
JackFTwist;4591857]wow

just wow

a thread about a very prominent minister who will be giving the benediction at the inauguration, a civil rights legend who us adamently pro gay and no wants to discuss that

instead

the great white benevolent bwana is upset because people of color are not beholden enough to him for his selfless selfless service to the coloured people

and bwana and other people keep fighting the same battles they have going in other threads


seems like people cannot get out of their own issues to look at the larger picture or consider something that is outside their preconceived stereotypes


had this been an anti gay minister there would all kinds of comment

but a pro gay minister - a minister of color - is someone to be ignored because bwana and others would rather feel sorry for their generous selves and/or keep fighting the same battles over and over and over

I suppose that had Lyndon Johnson invited a segregationist to give the benediction to "balance" the ceremony, it would have been fine with you?

Rev. Lowery shouldn't be the exception, he should be the rule as to the type of people speaking at the inauguration of an American President. People opposed to the civil rights of others should not be speaking at Obama's inauguration. Your attitude that we should all be grateful that Lowery is there is shamelessly servile.

Jack, your entire post attempts to play the race card in a non-racial situation. We all know Obama is black and most of don't really care and we will not give him a pass when he makes a mistake, he does not need it.

Defending Obama's every action and basing every defense on race is demeaning and illegitimate. An Uncle Tom for Obama is still an Uncle Tom and everyone's civil rights are important.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

^ That's funny, but I don't think "homophobia" is the right word. "Dominionism" might do it, though most people would draw a blank at the word.

 

[Passion4Muzik]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

Easy...the man has already affected the lives of gay Americans. He was instrumental in getting Prop 8 passed. His lies and influence combined with HRC, EC and Patrick's failure to organize. Prop 8's passage sent a signal nationwide to conservatives and other anti-gay people...lies will get you a win. They've already begun collecting signatures in states that require them to get more anti-gay marriage Props and Amendments on their state ballots.

And as for his inclusion here...it's like I stated in my last post. He's been given a national platform to preach his soft focus homophobia. A warm fuzzy hug and smile to hide the homophobia...a toothy smile while he talks about gays being equal to pedophiles and dog fuckers...but oh how he still loves us. A huge grin as he spouts off his "5000 year" lie and other misinformation.

Rick isn't going to speak about homosexuality at the inauguration. Doesn't all of the republican party claim to share the same philosophy on homosexuality? Where is the outrage over them? I don't get why the outrage is directed at Obama. With the way christianity and religion is in this day and age, there aren't going to be many preachers who say homosexuality is A-ok. That's just how it is. Although Obama is a christian, he doesn't have to interpret every single thing the same way as another christian.

 

[Lostlover]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

but I suppose because Rev Joe Lowery is black, a lot of posters here can't see him and know not a damn thing about him and besides what does this matter to the haters

and this forum is well known for trashing on pro gay African American ministers

No shit.

The same for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. A lot of gay men mistakenly lump these two into the same category as the other bigot preachers.

 

[Lostlover]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

You guys are so pathetically dishonest when you attempt to defend this choice of Obama's. No one made an analogy between Warren and the Nazis, the analogy was about the notion that anyone would think it is OK to have a bigot speak at the inauguration as long as he is balanced with a non-
bigot. It is not OK to have someone like Warren at the inauguration under any circumstances.

Stop trying to defend the indefensible, as gay men you should be ashamed.

What's indefensible is a gay man supporting a candidate because that candidate is a woman.

That's what is indefensible... supporting stereotypes by intentionally being a stereotype.

 

[iman]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

What's indefensible is a gay man supporting a candidate because that candidate is a woman.

That's what is indefensible... supporting stereotypes by intentionally being a stereotype.

I supported Obama in the General, that's about as close to feminine as I get. I suppose you think Obama nominated Hillary Clinton for State because you think they are soul sisters?

Obama needs supporters like you like he needs another Chicago scandal. Go finish junior college and come back if you graduate.

 

[Lostlover]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

I supported Obama in the General, that's about as close to feminine as I get. I suppose you think Obama nominated Hillary Clinton for State because you think they are soul sisters?

Obama needs supporters like you like he needs another Chicago scandal. Go finish junior college and come back if you graduate.

I'm actually at a top 20 university.

If you've paid attention instead of PMSing you would have known that Obama has been preaching inclusion into his governing. That includes the inclusion of pissed off Hillary supporters who dreamed Hillary's deceit.

Don't worry though, with your needing to fulfill stereotypes of gays (see Richard Simmons) and your questioning a heterosexual man's "manliness", I think your comments say more about you than they do about anything else on here.

In addition to spamming, what you're doing is called "projecting".

"I'm more manly than him. I shoot my dinner instead of buying it at the sissy grocery store."

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Passion4Muzik]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

And he doesn't...he is against gay marriage but there are a Christians out there who are in favor of it...obviously they do not agree.

Obama was against prop 8.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

No shit.

The same for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. A lot of gay men mistakenly lump these two into the same category as the other bigot preachers.

That's because they're bigoted preachers.

Obama was against prop 8.

But he's also against putting the one-man, one-woman position into constitutions.

It's pretty obvious that the point of Prop 8 and similar measures around the country is to establish religion, and I think Obama knows that. So he opposes those, while opposing adding gay marriage to the current discriminatory definition(s). I just hope this means he sees the need to establish a new definition that lets whoever wants to get together in a committed relationship, and have all those get equal benefits and privileges.

 

[Lostlover]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

That's because they're bigoted preachers.



But he's also against putting the one-man, one-woman position into constitutions.

It's pretty obvious that the point of Prop 8 and similar measures around the country is to establish religion, and I think Obama knows that. So he opposes those, while opposing adding gay marriage to the current discriminatory definition(s). I just hope this means he sees the need to establish a new definition that lets whoever wants to get together in a committed relationship, and have all those get equal benefits and privileges.

I wouldn't say Jackson and Sharpton are bigots. They're opportunists. Scavengers. Vultures of the less fortunate.

They're only doing what mainstream "Christianity" will do. You know, change it's viewpoint to remain relevant in modern society.

Remember in the history textbooks when "Christians" argued for slavery and used Biblical events to back the slave trade?

Oh yeah, they realized those interpretations were wrong near the time slavery was abolished.

How convenient.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

I wouldn't say Jackson and Sharpton are bigots. They're opportunists. Scavengers. Vultures of the less fortunate.

They're only doing what mainstream "Christianity" will do. You know, change it's viewpoint to remain relevant in modern society.

Remember in the history textbooks when "Christians" argued for slavery and used Biblical events to back the slave trade?

Oh yeah, they realized those interpretations were wrong near the time slavery was abolished.

How convenient.

They're bigots. They treat their own people like trash, regarding them as hopeless weaklings who need government to give them a ride because they can't make it on their own, and they view whites as the enemy to be plundered.

Yeah, I remember that in history textbooks -- and I also remember that it was Christians who realized slavery was wrong, and led the fight in England and the U.S. to get it abolished. So I guess what was convenient was that the rest of society finally listened to them.

Your selective view of history is probably convenient to you, though.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

What percentage of Christians held this position? Abe Lincoln was a Christian. Many blacks who were slaves were Christians. I know you aren't saying all Christians but what ball park % are you claiming and what text books are you referring to?

I don't know a percentage, but I can identify the type. They're the same kind who in Old Testament times rejected the Prophets because the prophets preached deeper principles drawn from the Torah, instead of just rules that served as a checklist to tell themselves they were righteous. They're the same sort who in Jesus' day rejected Him, not because of anything He taught so much as that He made God's message plain for everyone.
They're the reactionaries, those too cowardly to let go of the status quo and face that God may be doing something new, something requiring them to leave their comfort zone and apply their reasoning and creative faculties. They're the "stiff-necked", who cling to the known because it's comfortable, and become good at rationalizing anything in order to resist anything new.
I suspect that most of them either don't know God at all, or are not exactly in His good graces.

 

[Lostlover]

Re: Obama picks PRO Gaymarriage clergy for benedic

They're bigots. They treat their own people like trash, regarding them as hopeless weaklings who need government to give them a ride because they can't make it on their own, and they view whites as the enemy to be plundered.

Yeah, I remember that in history textbooks -- and I also remember that it was Christians who realized slavery was wrong, and led the fight in England and the U.S. to get it abolished. So I guess what was convenient was that the rest of society finally listened to them.

Your selective view of history is probably convenient to you, though.

Sharpton and Jackson are ahead of their times! I guess when being bigoted towards gays is less acceptable, maybe more churches will practice Jesus' love.

I can see why you think they're bigots.

I just think they're leeches. I think they're indifferent towards whites.

I didn't deny the abolitionists. I just remember distinctively 200 years of slavery started by the puritans.

There are always outliers my friend.

Mormons get their shit for their revelations (like allowing blacks into priesthood right before they were going to lose their tax exempt status).

Christianity has been opportunistic too. That was my point and I think Sharpton and Jackson are torn from the same cloth.

I personally don't think Jackson or Sharpton care about blacks or gays or any other minority group. They're in it for themselves.