The Original Gay Porn Community - Free Gay Movies and Photos, Gay Porn Site Reviews and Adult Gay Forums

  • Welcome To Just Us Boys - The World's Largest Gay Message Board Community

    In order to comply with recent US Supreme Court rulings regarding adult content, we will be making changes in the future to require that you log into your account to view adult content on the site.
    If you do not have an account, please register.
    REGISTER HERE - 100% FREE / We Will Never Sell Your Info

    PLEASE READ: To register, turn off your VPN (iPhone users- disable iCloud); you can re-enable the VPN after registration. You must maintain an active email address on your account: disposable email addresses cannot be used to register.

Obama's Health Care Speech

We could always enforce our immigration laws making their presence illegally more difficult for them so that they return to their country and I dunno, reform it? And yes, reform our immigration laws as well to give those that are willing to take the steps a decent shot at getting here too.

And this goes for Jack too. NO SYSTEM, will stop illegal immigration UNTIL, it's no longer FINANCIALLY CONVENIENT for US CITIZENS to hire them.

They aren't here for tours of the Grand Canyon.

They wouldn't be here if we didn't hire them.
 
Yeah, from you.

You know damned well that Obama was pushing Congress to VOTE on THEIR bill. Had that happened, none of the shit he was saying would have been remotely true. Now, since not a whole lot has changed on the Congressional side and seeing as how he hasn't crafted a bill himself, then yes. He's lying. He's telling us they are working on one thing when they are working on something different.


LOL, if you look back at the thread, hell, look at any of them. I haven't weighed in on Obama as man and superman yet. That was in response to you and your curiously strange statement of non-logic.

I'm not weighing in on Obama for a while yet.
 
Ok, thanks for the answer.

That E-Verify system relies on the curious assumption that employers want to know if their migrant workers from Chiapas are legal.

People who hire illegally – know very well they’re hiring illegally.

That's kinda the point.
 
I don't want anyone to go without emergency care. However, I do think it should be required all all employers use the "E-VERIFY" system that is in place when they hire new employees. It's a very easy system to use.

Many, if not most, employers who hire illegal aliens do so knowingly, because they want to be able to exploit them. They usually are afraid to join unions, they don't go to the government when they get cheated out of pay, and they don't go to court or the police if they are physically or sexually abused. These employers are not going to use E-VERIFY, they are going to lock their illegal employees in a basement if INS shows up. If you are concerned about illegal immigration, you should support harsh sanctions against employers who hire illegal immigrants.
 
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that everyone who hires illegally is Simon Legre. But I do have to say that even if you made E-Verify compulsory, you wouldn't stop anything. It's ALREADY illegal to hire illegally (grin). People get around the system one way or another and will continue to do so until you start severely fining employers, or putting them in jail. In which case you'll see the financial impact of that right on your dinner table.

Much better is to allow them to work.

And isn't that the American dream anyway, we're a nation of immigrants.

What happened to...

...Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free...

I guess that was just so much bullshit right?
 
That's always been his stance.

But no matter what you do you will still have some that are treated because under current law you do not need to prove your citizenship status as you are wheeled into the ER bleeding and in shock.

So as a practice no "illegal aliens" :rolleyes: will be covered, however in rare instances they still will be treated whether they are Mexican, Canadian, German, French, Japanese, or whatever. Upon recovering they then will individually be on the hook for their medical care bill. If they cannot pay then yes, the system "loses" but that's how it works today. Hospitals are charged with saving lives not being immigration police and US customs demanding proof of citizenship from people staggering in, or being wheeled into the ER.

why can't there be a mechanism to prove citizenship? at the point of entry for medical care?
 
We aren't a nation of outlaws. That's Australia. If they are here to work, then let them work legally, and allowed to have the protection of the law.

Well, I doubt that Australia is a nation of outlaws either. But I think you've mistaken me. I'm in favor of any legal expedient that let's them work and controls exploitation. Hell, I don't even mind including them in a "Public Option."

It's the people who "fear the brown horde" that are calling for walls and INS prisons.
 
Are you ok with turning people away from medical care? Your suggesting would work if preventing illegal immigrants from abusing our health care system is the problem, but it is only the symptom---the problem is the companies' hiring practice, those criminals that purposely defy law for the bottomline.


i would give them the medical care immediately and then arrest them - fix the cut, set the broken arm, give them medicine to get better then deport them

as for the companies that hire illegals, major fines - fines that would make them think 2x about doing it again
 
Are you ok with turning people away from medical care?

Probably.

Your suggesting would work if preventing illegal immigrants from abusing our health care system is the problem, but it is only the symptom---the problem is the companies' hiring practice, those criminals that purposely defy law for the bottomline.

Illegals abusing health care is pretty much a red herring (they go when they have legitimate health issues, because they're afraid of just what Chance proposes - getting shipped back to wherever. I don't consider that abusing health care). There are far, far, far, far more poor and uninsured Americas who use the E.R. in the exact same way. And there's no deporting them.
 
Because doctors and nurses do what they have trained to do. Treat sick people. Pray tell how do you "enforce" immigration control at the entryway of the doors of the ER? When you yourself are wheeled in because you had a heart attack while you were playing basketball with your buddies, and didn't bring your passport with you to play and have an ambulance drop you off at the ER, what would you think of a the Health Gestapo pushing your stretcher back on the ambulance and say "fuck you illegal asshole" in so many words because you have no passport on you? What about a German tourist that has limited English speaking ability that has broken a leg while visiting a national monument? Or a sick airline passenger delivered straight from the airport? Or yes an illegal immigrant that is sick with swine flu, gun shot wound, etc?

At a certain point what kind of country are we at our very souls? Here in Minnesota we have a very low uninsured population because of our state government. At what point are the respective state governments responsible for uninsured people?

And how much money will it cost to set up a whole new enforcement bureaucratic agency to police emergency rooms and then how much bitching and moaning will Republicans have over that?


hear you - good points

and how did u know i tore up my knee (torn left acl and torn meniscus) playing basketball ? :confused:

see post #112 for my response after more thought (just slightly)

and thus proof to alfie of my dreaded disease ...................... republicanism :)
 
I don't mean this as a put down, but I think you misread the article.


I understand the article, though it's a bit of a mess.

For example he says this [emphasis mine]:

During last year’s Presidential campaign, Obama remarked to the editorial board of the Reno Gazette-Journal, “I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it.” He then had to spend several days apologizing, but it’s easy to see what he was trying to say: as President, he wanted to have a liberal effect equivalent to Reagan’s conservative one.

It’s important to remember, though, that Reagan was not so maximalist as he sounded. During his first Inaugural Address, he declared that “government is the problem,” but he did not try to dismantle the “socialized medicine” program he had begun his political career railing against. Welfare reform came not under Reagan but under Bill Clinton, who governed in Reagan’s long shadow. Reagan’s critical contribution was to change the terms of the debate. ...

He says this as if it's a good thing. But, for instance, how did Reagan change the terms of the debate? What Reagan accomplished, as you point out, was a culture-shift. And as we've seen from events like the economic crisis and the increasing coarseness of debate that has its roots in the Reagan/Atwater influence, that while Reagan's culture shift seemed great at first (and it did: I was there and that shift was like a big breath of fresh air after Nixon/Ford/Carter), in the long run it's been destructive. I agree that Obama's doing the same as Reagan, and it doesn't matter whether its a Democrat or Republican doing it, the end result is destructive. And that's because the Reagan/Obama culture-shift is based on pretense and deceit rather than authenticity.

And then:

... Obama has already substantially realized his Reagan-size Presidential ambition, though in a manner almost opposite from Reagan’s: he has significantly increased the size and scope of government—just look at the classic measure, the increase in federal spending—but hasn’t set out to change the prevailing rhetoric about government. ...


But that's kind of ridiculous because Obama's increase in federal spending has been primarily a response to the economic crisis, and in truth Reagan significantly increased defense spending and that was supposedly in response to our military vulnerability, which was sold as another kind of crisis. It's not opposite from Reagan's, it's the same. One can argue whether or not Reagan was right to spend that way or whether Obama has been right, but the point is they're not opposite, they're very similar.

Reagan, according to this piece, changed the terms of debate but left the good lawmaking to Clinton. I don't trust that in a similar scenario the next Republican President will lead good lawmaking.

What you envision Obama accomplishing might be nice if we had the luxury of the world Reagan inherited but we do not. We have big messes and big needs right now, they're pressing hard and we need a President who'll come up with plans to address them and has the leadership skill to get them passed.

I have a lot of respect for your intelligence and knowledge, so please don't misunderstand if I seem harsh; it's my opinion about Obama I'm expressing, it's not personal. You and I simply disagree about Obama. And many people agree with you -- you could link to many many opinion pieces that support your opinion. But I am even more convinced now, after seeing Obama's choices since becoming President, that my assessment of how he'll perform as President was spot-on. Time will tell. I hope I'm wrong. But frankly I also hope you're wrong because I do seriously think we need a President who's prepared to lead straight into the battles we face today, not one who is "subtly and incrementally altering the discourse and culture, and ultimately then making it easier for the Democrats in the future to be on the political offensive rather than the defensive."

I apologize for the clunkiness of this post; I'm juggling a few things right now but I wanted to respond to you this evening.
 
"We" won't be involved in their day to day operations? LOL, funny. Telling a company what they can and can't do is exactly that. "You" may not be in the boardroom, like at GM, but the effect is the same. Incintivising behavior is much more effective in a capitalistic system versus mandating it.
I feel like you dont live in the US where we regulate tons of other industries and types of businesses. It's like you think we still practice laizze (laisse?) faire policies with businesses.

Also, why does it sound like your defending astronomical price raising in a industry that is vital to keeping people alive? I mean, the idea that health insurance charges too much is bi/tri-partisan. No one thinks the prices insurance charges is fair. I don't think even insurance companies think their prices are fair.

So you must be a Republican to take such insult from the modern ones. It still makes you look kind of silly when you do that. Takes away from what might otherwise be good insight. And I assume you don't want to call anyone Democrats either, right? Because most of them aren't nearly as racist as the original Democratic party was. You want to be consistant, right?
You can either take my good (or bad) insight and run with it along with the republitard
 
They succeeded in getting the message back and owning the topic, now they have to back those words up with action. If they don't the House will be in contention for a Republican take over, and the Democratic party damaged significantly like it was after Clinton failed to get his plan thru and passed.

President Clinton said it best


Let's hope he takes this high lead and get the ball rolling now. No more slow moving action, no more letting the right take their stabs and pokes. If we can keep this momentum, we are in good.
 
^^ I agree. And it's a shame that rather than point that out and take a stand for doing the right thing, Obama pretends illegal immigrants will not be covered.
 
It's good to see George Bush so relaxed and engaged. Whatever he did and didn't do as president, he was STILL our president, and it's good to see him chillin'.



Is this sarcasm?

That son of a bitch doesn't deserve a moment of chillin'. If he weren't a sociopath he'd be tormented by the unnecessary war he started, the debt it gave us, the torture he allowed in our name, and the long list of ugly destructive choices he made or allowed.
 
This just in, 67% of people now are in favor of healthcare after listening to the President up from 53% before hand. We have a 2/3rds majority.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/09/poll.obama.speech/index.html

This just in: That poll heavily oversampled democrats to get that result.

The sample of speech-watchers in this poll was 45 percent Democratic and 18 percent Republican.

That fact alone absolutely invalidates that poll. Any pollster worth anything would know that you cannot have more than double a sample of one side when that does not reflect the population.

Unfortunately, Gallup has not yet released a poll. The only other pollster to do so has been Rasmussen:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub..._favor_president_s_health_care_plan_53_oppose

So, figure close to an even 50/50 split, which is where we were before his speech.
 
I feel like you dont live in the US where we regulate tons of other industries and types of businesses. It's like you think we still practice laizze (laisse?) faire policies with businesses.

I do live in the US. Well Minnesota anyway, which is sort of in the states. I don't think we practice laizze faire...but I wish we did.

Also, why does it sound like your defending astronomical price raising in a industry that is vital to keeping people alive? I mean, the idea that health insurance charges too much is bi/tri-partisan. No one thinks the prices insurance charges is fair. I don't think even insurance companies think their prices are fair.

You pretty much answered your own question.

You can either take my good (or bad) insight and run with it along with the republitard

Or what? I really want to know. That was such an insightful sentence I want to know what the rest of it is.
 
I do live in the US. Well Minnesota anyway, which is sort of in the states. I don't think we practice laizze faire...but I wish we did.
reading your posts in this thread, sure sounds like you did.


You pretty much answered your own question.
You're defending the insurance company raising their prices several times above that of inflation because no one thinks it is fair?

...ummmmmm:confused:


Or what? I really want to know. That was such an insightful sentence I want to know what the rest of it is.
lol I didn't know I did that.!oops! I think I got sidetracked with Vampire Diaries or Big Brother or something.

Anyway, you can take my good (or bad) insite as it is with the colorful republitard logo, or you can discard it. Your choice really.
 
Back
Top