Occupy Wall Street

[T-Rexx]

I saw this and thought that it sums it up:

Sums up what?

That the people of the world use the products of industry every day?

What does that have to do with fixing the massively disproportionate income distribution in America?

What does it have to do with jobs?

What does it have to do with fairness?

What does it have to do with health care?

What does it have to do with the government bailing out billionaires with our money, while we're losing our homes?

What does it have to do with Occupy Wall Street?



People who make up posters like this clearly don't have the slightest idea what is going on here. That just astounds me.

 

[CowboyBob]

I saw this and thought that it sums it up:

They aren't protesting the products, they are protesting corporate greed.

 

[Just_Believe18]

I am amazed by how much hatred there is for these protests. Have you guys even bothered to look into the individual stories of these people who have been joining the movement? Please spend 5 minutes at this link. Look at these faces. Tell me these are "filthy, stupid, people."

http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

 

[Gatorguy]

I don't understand the attacks on these protesters. But then, I never understood the attacks on the Tea Party either.

I think people who are passionate are good for government. I understand it is a cost to secure/clean up after them, but would those funds really go to feed hungry families and children anyway? Just asking...

I think there are fringe elements with both, and I think there are equal amounts of hard-working Americans with both groups. Why wouldn't we want their opinions heard?

 

[cocksucker4use]

I just spent way too long scanning all the comments on this topic here. They seem to be about 3 or 4:1 in favor of the Occupy Movement. Some comments are as much off the wall as they are off topic. The questions around public protest, corporate greed, political corruption and stagnation and the overall failure of government to meet the needs of its people spark interest, thought and debate among us.

In America, it takes a lot for people to publicly demonstrate. It is just not part of our culture. People see it as posing too much social and physical risk. So, when it happens on any scale it is remarkable. It occurs where situations have become intolerable and other, more conventional avenues of expression have been ineffective or ignored; when the price of continued inaction and silence on an issue cannot be any worse than the risks of marching in the streets. Civil Rights, and Viet Nam are recent demonstrations. Riots around Dr. King's assassination and Rodney King's beating. Stonewall. Labor Rights and Women's Suffrage and Temperance were other issues that historically brought Americans out into public demonstrations. People were arrested, jailed and even died for the cause, or at least as a result of public demonstrations for the cause.

Protest demonstrations are not always aesthetically pleasing, and make peple uncomfortable and cause inconvenience and disrupton. That's why they work. They get our attention. They get the government's attention. The modern media are awesome in focusing on any kind of demonstrators.

Occupy is causing Americans to THINK about the economic state of our country, how it got this bad, the role and effectiveness of our elected leaders, social responsibility and a host of related issues that are not being adequately addressed. It seems to be working on the Forum.....

 

[CFoTsD]

Oddly I'm beginning to think OWS is helping Ron Paul politically more than anyone else in the field Dem or Repub

 

[BostonPirate]

I think as long as it gets the wealth the rich stole from the nation under bush out of their hands and back into circulation, it really doesn't matter.

This is not about the politicians, its about the people.

Remember them?

I grew up with older men around me, my grandfather and his friends, who had served in WW2. I spent alot of time with them telling me old war stories, and watching football.

They ALL had an inherent belief that the USA was here to not only help ALL americans, but that it was here to help the world.

That greatest generation mentality has been warped by the GOP and the new conservatives... now its fuck your buddy, fuck your enemy, get ahead or die, and learn to live with having NOTHING.

The Rockwell image of an america that cares WAS the conservative ideology.

Not anymore.

These kids want the USA to return to the days when we held ourselves and our polticians to a higher standard, and we all cared for each other.

Remember when america was asked to help in wars instead of going to the UN to get permission to invade?

Yeah

These kids are beyond your scope of coprehension Cf and others, because you are blindly partizan, and cannot envision a fix that does not first consider what party it would benefit.

 

[CFoTsD]

These kids are beyond your scope of coprehension Cf and others, because you are blindly partizan, and cannot envision a fix that does not first consider what party it would benefit.

Few are more partisan than you, BP

This is not about the politicians, its about the people.

Stop being sooooooo naive

 

[BostonPirate]

is that right?

well I would disagree.

I am non partizan and I am personally dedicated to removing the GOP from any powreful position because they oppose my civil rights.

Its one of my many facets, so beautiful as they are.

I am actually a greenie, and a capitalist. Those interests come together well in Massachussets, and I have not done bad. I am a non affiliated voter who believes in OLD SCHOOL american conservative values concerning governance and I have extremely progressive social ideas.

Actually either the right or the left gets annoyed with me, and I've been blasted on occasion from both sides here at JUB.

I am many things, and just because I detest the GOP position on gay rights and gay protections, doesn't mean I've thrown my hat in with one side.

If and when I choose to support a democrat, it's because I think they are the right person for the Job.

Live with that. The GOP may not EVER get my vote, but the Dems have to earn it Just like any candidate from the other poliitcal stratospheres do.

 

[JayHawk]

The only way OWS will have an affect is if they organize into a political party and make the democrats do their bidding. the democrats seem willing but the end will be two very marginalized opposite end of the spectrum parties and even less will be accomplished.

But that is of course my opinion and I no more demand that each person roger up and agree with me and neither do I get upset when folks dont agree.

It is after all simply a bunch of typed words. The things I really believe in I go do.

 

[CowboyBob]

I read this comment somewhere but don't remember where.

If you want to prevent (or at least lessen) the financial crisis that caused this:

1) Reinstate the Glass Steagall Act that separates commercial and investment banks, enacted during the Depression and repealed in 2000, eight years before the crisis.

2) Regulate the credit rating agencies.

3) Reward and recognize companies that keep jobs in the US. Give them a tax break for keeping jobs here.

4) Don't allow mortgage backed securities to be resold with a different rating.

5) Use Anti-trust laws to break up companies and banks that are too big to fail. Why don't we hear about anti-trust anymore?

6) Repeal the Commodities and Futures Modernization Act of 2000 that de-regulates Derivatives.

The folks on Wall Street own the government and everything the candidates are saying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act


But of course, the republicans are against regulation. You can see why.

 

[Telstra]

I read this comment somewhere but don't remember where.

If you want to prevent (or at least lessen) the financial crisis that caused this:

1) Reinstate the Glass Steagall Act that separates commercial and investment banks, enacted during the Depression and repealed in 2000, eight years before the crisis.

2) Regulate the credit rating agencies.

3) Reward and recognize companies that keep jobs in the US. Give them a tax break for keeping jobs here.

4) Don't allow mortgage backed securities to be resold with a different rating.

5) Use Anti-trust laws to break up companies and banks that are too big to fail. Why don't we hear about anti-trust anymore?

6) Repeal the Commodities and Futures Modernization Act of 2000 that de-regulates Derivatives.

The folks on Wall Street own the government and everything the candidates are saying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act


But of course, the republicans are against regulation. You can see why.

Too big to fail.
Even they do a bad job, they still can't fail. And they get lots of money for doing a bad job.

 

[kev]

Gosh, where to begin?

The anti-Kev posts epitomize the archetype of far-leftist thought:
1. Everything belongs to the collective.
2. Individual achievement doesn't matter (unless it's yours).
3. Individual choice is unacceptable (unless it involves sex and killing babies)
4. We best help each other when it is demanded by a gun to our heads.
5. I am entitled to a Bachelor's degree, even though I chose to have children in a situation where I am a single mother...it's not my fault...you guys bail me out.
6. I am entitled to medical care because it's too expensive. Never mind that this is because of policies enacted by leftists and one of their biggest contributors, the trial lawyers (who remain untouched in Obamacare)

Just_Believe calls this hatred. I challenge his Alinskyoid comment and call it honesty.

The point of the cartoon, for those who do not grasp the irony and hypocrisy, is two-fold:
1. Everyone is a capitalist when it comes to their own money
2. Capitalism is the only system in the history of mankind that has lifted people out of true poverty. Not being able to afford a bachelor's degree when you are a single mother of two is not poverty.

What is self-centered and hateful is loading our children up with debt that they cannot repay (which was done by both parties), even if you took every last dime form the millionaires and billionaires. They will have a lower standard of living. And that appears to be quite okay with the Left.

 

[palemale]

Gosh, where to begin?

The anti-Kev posts epitomize the archetype of far-leftist thought:
1. Everything belongs to the collective.
2. Individual achievement doesn't matter (unless it's yours).
3. Individual choice is unacceptable (unless it involves sex and killing babies)
4. We best help each other when it is demanded by a gun to our heads.
5. I am entitled to a Bachelor's degree, even though I chose to have children in a situation where I am a single mother...it's not my fault...you guys bail me out.
6. I am entitled to medical care because it's too expensive. Never mind that this is because of policies enacted by leftists and one of their biggest contributors, the trial lawyers (who remain untouched in Obamacare)

Just_Believe calls this hatred. I challenge his Alinskyoid comment and call it honesty.

The point of the cartoon, for those who do not grasp the irony and hypocrisy, is two-fold:
1. Everyone is a capitalist when it comes to their own money
2. Capitalism is the only system in the history of mankind that has lifted people out of true poverty. Not being able to afford a bachelor's degree when you are a single mother of two is not poverty.

What is self-centered and hateful is loading our children up with debt that they cannot repay (which was done by both parties), even if you took every last dime form the millionaires and billionaires. They will have a lower standard of living. And that appears to be quite okay with the Left.

I wouldn't call the cartoon you posted ironic. I'd call it sophmoric. The protesters at Occupy Wall Street aren't protesting technology or the legitimate corporate practices that bring technology to the market place. They're protesting crony capitalism and the political system that is destroying democracy by permitting the corporations and the rich and powerful to corrupt our political system and undermine democracy. It would appear that the author of that cartoon, and you, lack the analytic ability to recognize the distinction between the two.

 

[Just_Believe18]

Just_Believe calls this hatred. I challenge his Alinskyoid comment and call it honesty.

The point of the cartoon, for those who do not grasp the irony and hypocrisy, is two-fold:
1. Everyone is a capitalist when it comes to their own money
2. Capitalism is the only system in the history of mankind that has lifted people out of true poverty. Not being able to afford a bachelor's degree when you are a single mother of two is not poverty.

What is self-centered and hateful is loading our children up with debt that they cannot repay (which was done by both parties), even if you took every last dime form the millionaires and billionaires. They will have a lower standard of living. And that appears to be quite okay with the Left.

Hi, Kev. I didn't call your cartoon an expression of hatred. In fact, I thought it was rather irrelevant to the discussion in general. The protest is not "anti-capitalism." Look at the picture I previously posted as just one storied example of how there are legitimate concerns for suffering where people are demanding change. The picture you posted presents a false message that the protestors are rejecting consumerism and capitalism. That is simply not true. They are rejecting corporate greed and unfair living conditions while the top 1% wealthiest in America have never been wealthier.

If anything is ironic here, it is the fact that your image actually borrows from a previous image that is much more effective in presenting valid criticism of the tea party movement seen here:

As you can see, the message is more coherent and relevant to the original image. Here, you have an elderly woman (most likely enjoying the benefits of Social Security and Medicare) holding up a sign that says "Zero Taxes" while a more animated woman shouts "Cut Taxes Not Defense." The irrationality displayed here is highlighted by the humorous orange arrows pointing out the benefits of what taxes provides in terms of infrastructure and safety for these protestors to display what truly is, blatant hypocrisy.

 

[Knucklehead]

I fully respect and support the right of people to peaceably assemble. Even kooky left wingers as this group appears to be.

But once they cross the line into rioting, as you've mentioned in your post, then the full force of the state should and will be brought down upon them. It won't end well for them if they become violent.

Oh,do you mean like this,Jack? When the cops rode their lame ass scooters into people? What's the natural progression of those kinds of acts? Personally,I think it only empowers protestors and makes the cops look like dicks..





Hey,how about the 4 million the NYPD got from J.Morgan Chase? That certainly won't make them beholden to Wall Street,right?

By now you've no doubt seen the footage of the NYPD rioting and attacking peaceful civilian protestors..But in case you haven't,here it is.



I think ,the more violent the police get,the more people are gonna be showing up..

 

[T-Rexx]

Gosh, where to begin?

The anti-Kev posts epitomize the archetype of far-leftist thought:
1. Everything belongs to the collective.
2. Individual achievement doesn't matter (unless it's yours).
3. Individual choice is unacceptable (unless it involves sex and killing babies)
4. We best help each other when it is demanded by a gun to our heads.
5. I am entitled to a Bachelor's degree, even though I chose to have children in a situation where I am a single mother...it's not my fault...you guys bail me out.
6. I am entitled to medical care because it's too expensive. Never mind that this is because of policies enacted by leftists and one of their biggest contributors, the trial lawyers (who remain untouched in Obamacare)

1. Not one of the above is true of "far-leftist thought." Not even one.
2. Not one of the above has anything whatsoever to do with Occupy Wall Street. Not even one.

The cartoon posted ascribes absurd motives to an honorable movement in a dishonest attempt to discredit that movement. It is one thing to criticize a movement's inconsistencies or weaknesses. It is quite another to try to swiftboat it into something it is not.

The point of the cartoon, for those who do not grasp the irony and hypocrisy, is two-fold:
1. Everyone is a capitalist when it comes to their own money
2. Capitalism is the only system in the history of mankind that has lifted people out of true poverty. Not being able to afford a bachelor's degree when you are a single mother of two is not poverty.

And what does any of that have to do with Occupy Wall Street?

OWS is NOT an anti-capitalist movement.

All that the posted cartoon does is try to make claims about OWS which are not true. It pretends OWS is anti-capitalist, so that it may attack that phantom demon of anti-capitalism. The "cartoon" isn't a cartoon at all. It doesn't point out irony or hypocrisy, because the irony and hypocrisy it claims are based on lies about the movement. That makes it nothing but a disingenuous attack piece with an agenda.

What is self-centered and hateful is loading our children up with debt that they cannot repay (which was done by both parties), even if you took every last dime form the millionaires and billionaires. They will have a lower standard of living. And that appears to be quite okay with the Left.

What is hateful is loading up our children with debt so they can make the fabulously wealthy even more fabulously wealthy.

What is hateful is turning America into a banana republic in order to give uncontrolled power to a handful of individuals.

What is hateful is destroying opportunity for the masses, so that the entrenched elite may become even more entrenched, intractable, and elite.

 

[Kulindahr]

I saw this and thought that it sums it up:

More to the point would be a picture of a joint sessions of Congress showing which corporations have bought who.


Your image shows a total ignorance of what the point is, or an extreme shallowness of thought. The point isn't to do away with things made in factories, it's to do away with corporate power in politics.

Corporations should be making things, not making policy.

 

[Kulindahr]

Just_Believe calls this hatred. I challenge his Alinskyoid comment and call it honesty.

The point of the cartoon, for those who do not grasp the irony and hypocrisy, is two-fold:
1. Everyone is a capitalist when it comes to their own money
2. Capitalism is the only system in the history of mankind that has lifted people out of true poverty. Not being able to afford a bachelor's degree when you are a single mother of two is not poverty.

What is self-centered and hateful is loading our children up with debt that they cannot repay (which was done by both parties), even if you took every last dime form the millionaires and billionaires. They will have a lower standard of living. And that appears to be quite okay with the Left.

1. So? That has nothing to do with the issue.
2. So? That also has nothing to do with the issue.

Capitalism is not the problem -- the problem is that we have shifted into something different: crony capitalism, corporatism, plunderer's capitalism.

Here's the big symptom of the problem: we have a tenth of the people who are able to work unable to find jobs. At the same time, we have solid corporate profits and good returns on investments. Also at the same time, we have a large portion of the population unable to afford much more than what's necessary.
That says the system is operating in plunder mode: those on the top are siphoning off most of the return on production, and the workers are being paid less than thei effort's worth. And the system can run that way because those who are supposed to defend the people, i.e. the government, are bought and owned by the corporations and the super-wealthy.

For the short-sighted, that may look fine. But in the long run it will create more social ills that will cost more to fix than the short-term benefits.

So it is "hate" -- a very cold and practical hate that shortchanges the workers, especially those on the bottom, leaving them without the resources to do anything but be cogs in the machine.

It's a problem that has an easy solution: raise the minimum wage to $12/hr starting New Year's Day. A lot of the improved income will go to pay off bills, but a lot will also go to buy things. Unfortunately, much of what is bought will be imported, but there's where another change would help: a corporate minimum tax -- with an exception for credits for new manufacturing jobs in America; if they're building new factories, let their rate go negative (just don't send them a check; let them carry it over).

But there's no way to get balance again until the wealth disparity caused by the system of plunder is corrected.

 

[Kulindahr]

Hey,how about the 4 million the NYPD got from J.Morgan Chase? That certainly won't make them beholden to Wall Street,right?

By now you've no doubt seen the footage of the NYPD rioting and attacking peaceful civilian protestors..But in case you haven't,here it is.



I think ,the more violent the police get,the more people are gonna be showing up..

I see more violence from the "white shirts" in these videos....

What are they the SS unit?

The one who just walked up and hosed people with pepper spray deserves flying lessons -- off the Empire State Building.

If this kind of response continues, we'd all better pray and work to see the OWS movement win, or we'll be taking another giant stride into a total police state.