Occupy Wall Street

[fetaby]

Tried to embed a video. My attempt was not successful.

 

[IokuA47]

I'm gonna channel an Oakland cop.

"Hey! You hit me with a plastic water bottle, now I'm gonna shoot you with a rubber bullet or beany bag in the face!!!"

And I would not be surprised if the bottle was thrown after the first round of attack by police was sent. Either way, they had a constitutional right to be there. (The protesters)

 

[White Eagle]

The point of my channeling was the police are too armed to be shooting back at bottles, even rocks, they are in riot gear, the police!

 

[jackoroe]

Spoken like a true foe of liberty.

Human rights trump law. Your position would tell gays in Iran to meekly go along with being hanged, just "petition the courts as to [their] grievance".

And any time a police response to non-lethal behavior by citizens includes use of military-grade weaponry, the law becomes irrelevant -- justice is what's relevant.

Your opening statement is the cry of a police state supporter. It maintains that law is more important than people.

Spoken like a true anarchist. This is a nation of laws. They are promulgated by elected officials in the legislative branch, approved by the executive branch, subject to judicial review and enforced by the police.

If you have a problem with them, lobby to change them as is your right. If you want to engage in peaceful civil disobedience, that's also your right.

But when you engage in violence, by hurling missiles at people who are part of the 99% just like you, you lose the argument. And you suffer the consequences for doing so.

Even unabashedly liberal places like Oakland and San Francisco have had enough of these illegal occupations. There are concerns for health and safety issues. The people who actually live, work and pay taxes in these communities are concerned over the filth and squalor these people have created. Business people (part of the beloved 99%) are suffering losses because no one will navigate through the disgusting conditions enjoyed by these pigs, to come to their businesses.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QK3V3G2.htm

So what about the rights of those people? The right to earn a living and feed their families is not important? The right of people who live in these neighborhoods to be free of litter and filth? To the quiet enjoyment of their property? The protestors really don't give a fuck about anybody but themselves.

 

[White Eagle]

Yes, this is a nation of laws and the first law, in my book, is the 1st amendment.
You know not of which you speak. Now they're throwing missiles? Living in squalar?
You don't know anything of what is going on there.

 

[White Eagle]

Things are getting interesting in Oakland. Check out their website.

http://www.occupyoakland.org/

GENERAL STRIKE & MASS DAY OF ACTION – NOVEMBER 2

October 27, 2011

Liberate Oakland, Shut Down the 1%
GENERAL STRIKE & MASS DAY OF ACTION
Wednesday November 2, 2011

PROPOSAL:

We as fellow occupiers of Oscar Grant Plaza propose that on Wednesday November 2, 2011, we liberate Oakland and shut down the 1%.

We propose a city wide general strike and we propose we invite all students to walk out of school. Instead of workers going to work and students going to school, the people will converge on downtown Oakland to shut down the city.

 

[jackoroe]

Slow learners.

 

[Jack Springer]

White Eagle, Kuli, and others . . . .

Put down the mouse and slowly back away from your computer.

It's a beautiful fall day, go out and enjoy a nice walk or ride.

 

[palemale]

Spoken like a true anarchist. This is a nation of laws. They are promulgated by elected officials in the legislative branch, approved by the executive branch, subject to judicial review and enforced by the police.

We have laws against torture, yet they have not been enforced against members of the Bush administration who approved or engaged in torture. There are laws against fraud, yet now one on Wall Street, nor any bankers, have been investigated or prosecuted for engaging in fraud and other unlawful activity that wrecked our economy. That bothers me a hell of a lot more than people protesting the unbelievable corruption that is so endemic in our capitalist system.

 

[palemale]

White Eagle, Kuli, and others . . . .

Put down the mouse and slowly back away from your computer.

It's a beautiful fall day, go out and enjoy a nice walk or ride.

The weather isn't so beautiful here in NYC, and snow and rain is forecast for the weekend. Keep warm by demonstrating everybody!

 

[JayHawk]

Next JUB meet lets all go together. I will give you riot gear and a gun with bean bags in it. Then i will begin to pelt you with rocks of my choice until you feel it is necessary for your safety to fire on me.

I will wager within 3 rocks I can get you to fire for fear of your life.

 

[T-Rexx]

There are concerns for health and safety issues. The people who actually live, work and pay taxes in these communities are concerned over the filth and squalor these people have created.

And what of the societal filth and squalor created by the 1%?

Is there to be no consequence for destroying the lives of so many tens of millions? Should these 1%ers not be forced to clean up the mess they have brought down upon the nation and the world? Are they excused from human responsibility by virtue of their wealth?

Are those of us who live, work and pay taxes in these communities never to know freedom from serfdom? Are we forever to live in a society where our societal goal is not our own happiness, but that of our economic overlords? Will we be forced forever to bail them out from their incompetence only so that they can continue to abuse us?

Has the right to the pursuit of happiness been rescinded for 99% of America?

Business people (part of the beloved 99%) are suffering losses because no one will navigate through the disgusting conditions enjoyed by these pigs, to come to their businesses.

And what of the losses suffered by the 99% every day because of the disgusting societal conditions created by the 1%?

No jobs, no education, no health care, no housing for us 99% - because the 1% need our money, our talents, and our labor to add another home to the dozen they already own.

Frankly, we're fed up with "the disgusting conditions enjoyed by these pigs" who are the 1%. We navigate through their squalor every day, and no one seems to care about that.

So what about the rights of those people? The right to earn a living and feed their families is not important? The right of people who live in these neighborhoods to be free of litter and filth? To the quiet enjoyment of their property? The protestors really don't give a fuck about anybody but themselves.

Indeed, what about the rights of Americans? Do we not have a right to earn a living and feed our families? Do we not have a right to live in a neighborhood free of the filth of economic exploitation? Will we never know the quiet enjoyment of owning property?

The 1% don't give a fuck about anybody but themselves.

 

[Kulindahr]

So it's back to the rules and regulations of public parks and plazas. Does the decision to assemble on any given public piece of property give the people protesting 1st amendment protections by making the rules and regulations of these spaces void?

Yes.

"Congress shall make no law... respecting the right of the people peaceably to assemble...."

Spoken like a true anarchist. This is a nation of laws. They are promulgated by elected officials in the legislative branch, approved by the executive branch, subject to judicial review and enforced by the police.

If you have a problem with them, lobby to change them as is your right. If you want to engage in peaceful civil disobedience, that's also your right.

Anything that isn't total arbitrary police power gets called "anarchy" by you.

"Nation of laws" -- the mantra of authoritarians, but they conveniently ignore the highest law, which I cited above.

If the job of cops is to uphold the law, then they should be looking at that highest law, and deciding that the laws contrary top it have no force. Is there a curfew? Unconstitutional, if the people are peaceably assembled. No tents or camping? Unconstitutional, if the people are peaceably assembled. Orders to disperse? Unconstitutional, if the people are peaceably assembled.

See, "no law" means just that. In a civilized country, we'd be rounding up all the legislators and council members and mayors who made such laws or regulations or gave such orders, and putting them in jail for trial. And when they had been found guilty of rebellion against the Constitution, they'd all be barred from holding any public off, elected or non-elected, for life.

But when you engage in violence, by hurling missiles at people who are part of the 99% just like you, you lose the argument. And you suffer the consequences for doing so.

If they even did so. I've watched videos, and I've read reports, and the only people I can find making claims that protesters did what you claim are the same lying cops who pretend the protesters were throwing flash-bang grenades at each other. But of course the cops don't have to tell the truth, they're authorized to lie and trained to do so.

So I don't believe anyone attacked the cops -- because no report by a cop can be trusted. They've proven themselves liars who assault innocent people with military devices. Since those innocent people have been acting under their protected First Amendment rights, in my book that makes the cops traitors to the country. I vote we execute them.

Even unabashedly liberal places like Oakland and San Francisco have had enough of these illegal occupations. There are concerns for health and safety issues. The people who actually live, work and pay taxes in these communities are concerned over the filth and squalor these people have created. Business people (part of the beloved 99%) are suffering losses because no one will navigate through the disgusting conditions enjoyed by these pigs, to come to their businesses.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QK3V3G2.htm

I'm supposed to accept anything from an article that accepts the liars' word? Watch the videos: the cops employed military weapons against innocent, peaceful people. The employed military weapons against people on a mission of mercy. And they deny it!

So what about the rights of those people? The right to earn a living and feed their families is not important? The right of people who live in these neighborhoods to be free of litter and filth? To the quiet enjoyment of their property? The protestors really don't give a fuck about anybody but themselves.

I have yet to see any accounts of litter and filth that didn't originate with someone trying to defame the movement. When those claims have been investigated, they've been found false.

But what if they're true? The other people should take it in stride, as part of the price of freedom. Their fellow citizens are exercising a very important set of rights, so those residents should be cheering them on, whether they agree or not.

Mussolini brought "quiet enjoyment of... property" to Italy. You're advocating the very same thing here -- to hell with rights, up with peace and quiet.

Yes, this is a nation of laws and the first law, in my book, is the 1st amendment.
You know not of which you speak. Now they're throwing missiles? Living in squalar?
You don't know anything of what is going on there.

"Congress shall make no law... respecting the right of the people peaceably to assemble...."​

An honest court right now would welcome a petition to have all curfew and camping and similar restrictions concerning any and all public property and private property under public authority, nullified as unconstitutional, so long as the people are peaceably assembled.

In the spirit of the American Revolution, I will note that even if the protesters threw rocks and bottles, they did not start the battle: the police, in attempting to interfere with the exercise of a First Amendment right, began the battle. The protesters merely fought back.

 

[Kulindahr]

Things are getting interesting in Oakland. Check out their website.

I would be thrilled if it worked.

 

[Kulindahr]

White Eagle, Kuli, and others . . . .

Put down the mouse and slowly back away from your computer.

It's a beautiful fall day, go out and enjoy a nice walk or ride.

Ah! Here comes the call for the good to let evil triumph by doing nothing.

 

[zoltanspawn]

This is a nation of laws.

Is it not more fundamentally a nation of freedoms?

(That is, we suffer restrictions on freedom when necessary, but value freedom MORE THAN its restriction.)

no one will navigate through the disgusting conditions enjoyed by these pigs

I don't know about everywhere (who does?) but this is not an accurate description of Occupations...everywhere.

 

[Kulindahr]

Is it not more fundamentally a nation of freedoms?

(That is, we suffer restrictions on freedom when necessary, but value freedom MORE THAN its restriction.)

That's a profound observation -- and you're right: this is supposed to be a nation of freedom, rights, liberty. The laws are to exist to uphold those, and when any law gets in their way, it is invalid.

 

[Just_Believe18]

Hey, Jack. I want to take a moment to comment on your recent remarks.

I understand where you're coming from. The police were ordered by the city to remove the protestors out of the park. When you have a few protestors (a few, not the general crowd) throwing bottles and rocks at the police officers, that's certainly inappropriate.

However, there are a few additional details in this situation:

1. The police removed the protestors in full riot gear. That's an intimidating presence to suddenly show up, when previous protestor movements have not had that kind of police response.

2. When you have police officers in full riot gear, it invokes fear into a crowd of people. With varying different types of personalities and behaviors, a few individuals will impulsively switch into a violent mode to protect themselves and "drive away" such a force. That's just human nature, and for the police to dress up in full riot gear in anticipation for such behavior, did not warrant what I address next.

3. The use of chemical weapons like tear gas, rubber bullets, etc. as a response to bottles and rocks is obviously disproportionate. These protestors weren't in riot gear. They had no molotov cocktails or similar weapons to fight back. Proof of how peaceful they were was evident in how most people who were arrested that night went peacefully. The police had hardly any problems arresting people. So there was no reason for them to use such weapons against a crowd of peaceful protestors. The fact that one of those weapons has almost killed an Iraq war veteran speaks proof to the unnecessary and embarrassing force that was used by the Oakland police that night.

As a society, we need to come to terms that this Occupy Wall Street movement is not going away. These people deserve more respect than this.

 

[Just_Believe18]

Slow learners.

Oh, and...



You know that wasn't justified.

 

[Jack Springer]

Oh, and...



You know that wasn't justified.

I still haven't seen a video that shows how everything started. Just highly edited ones like this.

Oakland is a strange place. Anyone that is into the NFL knows that.