Occupy Wall Street

[jackoroe]

No your the fail. the guy Gonzalez shot in the back was black.
I will be back with links

The link you provided had no such claim, despite your protestations to the contrary. Go back, review your cite and show me exactly where it said he shot somebody in the back. Let's make it easy, it ain't there.

What is interesting in your cite is that 17 agencies besides Oakland where at the event. It's actually even possible that Oakland PD had no hand in whatever happened to Mr. Scott.

 

[White Eagle]

This is the story of him shooting a black kid in the back killing him.This is a long story and it tells a lot of his misconduct. Now I will admit the suspects he misused were wanted, but not this kid.
My complaint about him is he uses too much force, unnecessary violence. He is a hothead that is just looking for trouble. Exactly what happened to Scott. Unnecessary force. He did not have to hit him, he didn't even know it wasn't the kid he was looking for.
Now if you can praise him, I want to cease this subject.

http://colorlines.com/archives/2011...law_has_shielded_oakland_police_violence.html

Deadly Secrets: How California Law Shields Oakland Police Violence

--snip--

Gary King, Jr., a 20-year-old vacuum salesman and contractor, lived around the corner with his parents and siblings. That afternoon, King and a few of his friends went to East Bay Liquors to buy snacks. As they exited the store, Gonzales drove by in his patrol car.

Gonzales was on the lookout for a suspect in a month-old murder that had taken place several blocks away. Witnesses say he swerved across six lanes of traffic into the liquor store parking lot, where he got out of his car and approached King. The two exchanged words. Gonzales then slapped soda and chips out of King’s hands and grabbed hold of him. King resisted, and witnesses say Gonzales pulled the young man into a headlock by his shoulder-length dreadlocks and punched him repeatedly. Gonzales then Tasered King multiple times, according to a civil suit filed by King’s family.

King broke free of Gonzales and staggered west across MLK Way, holding his sagging pants up and yelling for help. Witnesses say Gonzales then drew his pistol and fired twice. King fell to the sidewalk with two fatal bullet wounds in his back. Gonzales ran over to King’s body and planted his foot on top of it while aiming his pistol at King’s friends, warning them to back up. He then cuffed King’s hands behind his back.

garyking-happyfathersday.jpg

Gary King, Sr. looking at Father’s Day notes his son wrote him. (Photo by Jorge Rivas)

King’s parents, Gary Sr. and Cathy, ran out to the street, where additional OPD officers had been summoned to hold back an increasingly angry crowd. Cathy King tried to get through to her son’s inert body but was stopped by a police officer. She and her husband were not allowed to see their son, who by now was hidden by a clutch of OPD officers and EMTs. The Kings followed the ambulance to Highland Hospital, where doctors told them Gary had died but refused to let them see his corpse.

For Cathy King, being barred from her son’s deathbed was the final insult. “No one should stand in the way of a mother in the final moments of her son’s life,” she said at a February conference on police violence in Oakland.

 

[Jack Springer]

That's a Russian "news" outfit.

You bitch about Fox News an American news channel and then you post a vid from Russia!

Communist or anarchist? Which one?

Here, check out this video, go to about 2:35...

 

[opinterph]

… went to East Bay Liquors to buy snacks.

Seems harmless enough. Was the 20-year-old carrying anything on his person besides snacks?

… holding his sagging pants up

Maybe he had something heavy in his pockets?

 

[jackoroe]

This is the story of him shooting a black kid in the back killing him.This is a long story and it tells a lot of his misconduct. Now I will admit the suspects he misused were wanted, but not this kid.
My complaint about him is he uses too much force, unnecessary violence. He is a hothead that is just looking for trouble. Exactly what happened to Scott. Unnecessary force. He did not have to hit him, he didn't even know it wasn't the kid he was looking for.
Now if you can praise him, I want to cease this subject.

http://colorlines.com/archives/2011...law_has_shielded_oakland_police_violence.html

He was investigated and cleared according to your cite. There was no crime committed.

Seriously, are you trying to make the argument that officers can go about willy nilly in California, executing people at will for their own amusement? That there are absolutely no checks on the use of deadly force? That's absolutely ridiculous on it's face. Further, there are Federal Civil Rights laws that protect against these kinds of abuses if they were to occur. Yet no charges have been lodged by the Feds either. Why is that?

The fact is we have no idea what happened to Mr. Scott. We know he suffered a concussion and brain swelling, nothing more. We have no idea, who if anyone, of the 17 agencies involved in this matter caused this injury. But some are prepared to lynch an officer based not on evidence, but on what some dimwit blogger printed in an article, that he admits he couldn't properly document. That's called conjecture and it has no place in respectable journalism.

 

[palemale]

Well, you have the unions to blame. You know those folks who so many defended with all that fervor during the Wisconsin issue earlier this year? Truth is, it's damned near impossible to fire bad public employees represented by unions. Teachers and cops have the stronger unions, so they are the most difficult to discipline or remove.

Civilian review boards are about worthless. Their decisions get overturned regularly, because they are incompetent. But it's what NYC wanted, so I hope they are enjoying them. A well run IA works far better.

How are unions to blame? This guy was a high ranking police official, and thus not likely to be in a union.

 

[jackoroe]

How are unions to blame? This guy was a high ranking police official, and thus not likely to be in a union.

He was represented by the Captain's Endowment Association which represents inspectors as well. Why, I don't know but they do.

Had this incident occurred in a jurisdiction without a union, you serve at the will of the chief law enforcement officer. You certainly would have seen him fired.

It's a pretty clear example of unions protecting those who shouldn't be doing the job they have. Happens all the time in the public sector.

 

[White Eagle]

The police in Calif have the luxury of having their information put in seclusion The supreme court of Calif ruled the police doesn't have to have their records released to the public.
Soooooo, Once again you have proved yourself to be on the side of rogue police. Of course they were kept on the gforce, they are killing people who are in their way!
Soooooo, again. You want to praise these police who ae all for brut force. My dealings with you are over.

 

[CowboyBob]

Oh c'mon Jack..... you can't blame the unions.

Next thing it will be welfare mothers, immigrants, Muslims and the homosexuals' fault.

Pick a group, blame and demonize.

 

[jackoroe]

The police in Calif have the luxury of having their information put in seclusion The supreme court of Calif ruled the police doesn't have to have their records released to the public.
Soooooo, Once again you have proved yourself to be on the side of rogue police. Of course they were kept on the gforce, they are killing people who are in their way!
Soooooo, again. You want to praise these police who ae all for brut force. My dealings with you are over.

The records in question are personnel records. Criminal charges are public records. Of course you have to break the law to get charged, don't you? Gonzales was criminally cleared in every instance. The police in Oakland aren't somehow endowed by the uber liberal California Supreme Court with the ability to murder people who "are in their way" as you've claimed. That isn't what the Copley decision was about and you know it. It's offensive that you even make such a ridiculous claim.

You've chosen to accuse a man considered by many a hero of being a murderer, without any proof at all. How sad.

 

[jackoroe]

Oh c'mon Jack..... you can't blame the unions.

Next thing it will be welfare mothers, immigrants, Muslims and the homosexuals' fault.

Pick a group, blame and demonize.

I don't think anybody who does such a thing as Tony Bologna (can't imagine he didn't get picked on for having that name) belongs on the PD. What kept him there if not the unions?

 

[JayHawk]

Wow after a day of driving I figured this thread would be rife with cries of outrage and the collapse of all that was freedom because Nashville and San Diego were cleared today as well. Following the Oakland debacle. I thought you all would be particularly scorned that the first amendment right to shit in public spaces was over run because San Diego Cops don't have time to 'baby sit' the protesters and keep them safe from themselves.

Instead we proceed down some pointless wormhole where those that support law enforcement activities argue justification with those that normally argue against anything law and order. YAY!

What occurred in Oakland WAS an overuse of force for the crowd and what it had displayed. I can not imagine the justification that will ever stand up to scrutiny where they use 'flash bangs' for crowd control. Or where they justify the direct launch of a flash bang at the crowd who were helping the victim.

To the police defense in that mess there is no way to have known or seen that the crowd appearing to rush towards the line was helping a wounded protester. In the haze and heat of the moment all you would see behind a riot shield is a mass forming. I believe they will (and should be) reprimanded for using such force. The front line should be armed with hard contact control devices but not rubber bullets. Possibly some bean bags for persistent morons who choose to rush armed riot gear clad police officers. The second tier (A much lighter tier) should have rubber bullets and employ them clearly and for painful but non life threatening impact. The final tier should have been positioned up wind to put down tear gas canisters that could envelope the crowd and ward them off... (and believe me they would get going)

There is a huge mess BUT it is not the end of democracy as we know it. IN FACT it will be reviewed and policy and procedure will be in place to better the efficacy of the police force.

The police did themselves a huge dishonor and did OWS a huge service with this action. Now they have tear drops and heart strings along with some valid points. Yet the protesters are not free of guilt. You have the right to peacefully assemble. Rocks and bottles thrown do not equal peaceful no matter how high you stack your bullshit. Peacefully assembly does not include the right to squat, shit and otherwise disturb the peace. You are then infringing on my right of peaceful pursuit of liberty and justice and all that superman crap. I personally think shitting in a public square is not peaceful. They could have easily had the same effect by going home each night and returning at the crack of dawn to spend another day protesting. They chose not to because people would not return every time and the protest would all begin around 1 or 2 in the afternoon. Finally i must reiterate that it does not matter where you are from and what liberties you believe you are entitled. If you choose to throw objects at riot gear clad police officers you will eventually be arrested or hurt in the process of them restoring order.

It is truly sad that so many complete voices of hate for what soldiers do would take of the nations cloth and wrap themselves in it because it makes their cause more worthy.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ Let's see... You have a crowd of people rushing to help Scott Olsen who has been bludgeoned by a tear gas projectile. The Oakland police proceed to fire more tear gas on the gathered crowd trying to help the man...

Do you really need to see more here? Are you saying somehow this crowd of individuals deserved being shot at with more tear gas while trying to help a bleeding man going into a coma?

Don't forget the flash-bang deliberately thrown into the rescuers.

After the initial brutality of the NYPD, things have settled down here. However, the upper level police commander who pepper sprayed two women for no reason was disciplined with a loss of two weeks vacation and transfer to Staten Island. A slap on the wrist. He should have been discharged and prosecuted.

What does it say to the general public when a high ranking police official, who should be setting an example for rank and file officers and making sure they don't engage in appropriate conduct, gets away with public brutality and criminal conduct? How can public officials expect citizens to have confidence that the police will treat them fairly when this sort of police misbehavior is treated so leniently?

It says that all are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Yes, it does. But the alleged point of this group is to complain about Wall Street, not the overthrow of the government. Or have they changed their minds again? I'm not on their email list.

That's not what your Jefferson quote says.

 

[Kulindahr]

It says the system works pretty well. $6 K in fines and banishment to Staten Island? Fairly harsh, IMO.

Seriously, the matter has been subject to review by the DA who decided to send it back to the civilian review board for action. A group of citizens decided this was the appropriate way to settle the matter.

Were any of them people who were there? Were any of them unemployed and desperate? or was it the typical batch of privileged types who'd rather the police bash heads and to hell with rights.

What would a protester have gotten if she'd done the same thing to one of the cops? That's what the penalty should have been.

 

[Kulindahr]

Maybe you should go back and read it. There is nothing in there about Gonzales shooting anybody in the back. That's a lie.

And exactly what court of law has adjudicated Gonzales of having engaged in any unlawful actions? Or is it just this idiot left wing screwball you've cited who thinks so?

Why exactly would you hope that Gonzales harmed Scott? Isn't the object of the exercise to find out what happened? Or shall we just throw a rope over the tree and hang Gonzales, because it happens to fit your view of the world. We used to do that with Black folks, didn't we? It's no more fair now then it was then.

Sorry, but you've earned an Epic Fail award on this one.

Epic fail? Hmmmm....

I see you've produced the recipe for keeping the forces strong in a police state: just never let your thugs and murderers face an actual court! After all, if there's no court, then they're lily-white innocent, right?

 

[JB3]

It says that all are equal, but some are more equal than others.

No. It says that, thanks to the unions, it makes it virtually impossible to fire bad police officers. For a police officer to get fired in any major city in the US, they'd have to shoot someone in the face and kill them in cold blood, caught on video, and with multiple witnesses. Anything short of that, and they get a slap on the wrist and transferred.

Take, for example, this police officer in Chicago. He is over 6 ft tall, 240 pounds, and he beat a 110 pound female bartender for no reason whatsoever. The only reason he got fired was because the story ran on the national news for a week. The Union did its best to protect him, fighting tooth and nail against the firing.

Or rapists that were allowed to stay on the job.

Rahm Emanuel, love him or hate him, was probably one of the best things to happen to Chicago. The police union doesn't even bother fighting if the accusations are serious enough any more, because they know Rahm will beat them into the ground.

 

[Kulindahr]

He was investigated and cleared according to your cite. There was no crime committed.

Seriously, are you trying to make the argument that officers can go about willy nilly in California, executing people at will for their own amusement? That there are absolutely no checks on the use of deadly force? That's absolutely ridiculous on it's face. Further, there are Federal Civil Rights laws that protect against these kinds of abuses if they were to occur. Yet no charges have been lodged by the Feds either. Why is that?

The fact is we have no idea what happened to Mr. Scott. We know he suffered a concussion and brain swelling, nothing more. We have no idea, who if anyone, of the 17 agencies involved in this matter caused this injury. But some are prepared to lynch an officer based not on evidence, but on what some dimwit blogger printed in an article, that he admits he couldn't properly document. That's called conjecture and it has no place in respectable journalism.

This is bullshit.

You don't think the YouTube videos are evidence? Get real.

I could make a guess as to why no federal charges were filed: no one would talk. That happens around here, if you try to complain about police misbehavior -- cops start arresting your family members and friends for made-up charges, or apply other means of intimidation.

What agency the thug was from that injured Scott is to a large degree irrelevant: it was under Oakland's leadership, so Oakland bears the guilt.

 

[Kulindahr]

Had this incident occurred in a jurisdiction without a union, you serve at the will of the chief law enforcement officer. You certainly would have seen him fired.

No -- we would have seen him traded to another agency, where he could keep abusing people. Happens all the time.

 

[JB3]

No -- we would have seen him traded to another agency, where he could keep abusing people. Happens all the time in places where unions protect the officers.

There, fixed it for you. Your original isn't true.

 

[JB3]

This is bullshit.

You don't think the YouTube videos are evidence? Get real.

I could make a guess as to why no federal charges were filed: no one would talk. That happens around here, if you try to complain about police misbehavior -- cops start arresting your family members and friends for made-up charges, or apply other means of intimidation.

What agency the thug was from that injured Scott is to a large degree irrelevant: it was under Oakland's leadership, so Oakland bears the guilt.

First of all, what youtube videos exist of the incident he was talking about?

Second of all, most courts wouldn't admit Youtube or other observer video since it often doesn't show the whole incident. Thats part of the reason why most PD cars have dash cams now. Unless it shows everything, from beginning to end, courts won't allow it in.