Occupy Wall Street

[White Eagle]

I guess this one would be more appropriate.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Zoltan no one ... nope not a single soul on JUB apparently gets what black humor is and why people employ it.

Only you, then? Hum. Maybe...because...your sense of humor isn't funny?

 

[zoltanspawn]

I sincerely hope that the protestors do not engage in this foolish course of action. Boards with nails used as a weapon will get you dead in very short order. Guaranteed.

You can read OWS Portland's response to such allegations here: The Police allege 'there is information' there will be People in the Trees!

 

[jackoroe]

You can read OWS Portland's response to such allegations here: The Police allege 'there is information' there will be People in the Trees!

Here's their disclaimer.

We cannot control what individuals do.

If they're gone when they are required to be, it won't be an issue. They've lied about being peaceful in the past. Ask the folks on Oakland about that.

 

[Kulindahr]

Just standing there getting swacked is ignorant.

Thanks for letting us know you think Ghandi and MLK were ignorant.

 

[Kulindahr]

Here's their disclaimer.



If they're gone when they are required to be, it won't be an issue. They've lied about being peaceful in the past. Ask the folks on Oakland about that.

No, you've lied about them lying, and now you're doing it again. You insist on using fallacious reasoning and slander on this topic. It's despicable, coming from a mod.

 

[Kulindahr]

Having thought about the Portland situation --

were there no storm, I'd get over there and explain this is a chance to get rid of the violent elements and such: wait until twenty minutes before the deadline, and then all the peaceful people just grab everything and move to a different park. If it were up to me, they'd also let the police know beforehand, with a message saying that they haven't been able to clean out the violent elements from their midst, so they're going to move their 'midst' and leave the bad element behind for the cops to deal with.

And I'd suggest that the cops enlist the fire department, and rig up a tank of very soapy water, and hose down the violent element. Use the right soap, and it would enrich the soil.

 

[JayHawk]

Only you, then? Hum. Maybe...because...your sense of humor isn't funny?

Well seeing as how the comment I made was in reference to your 'mock shock' at another member I would have to say that NO it isnt just my sense of black humor. But I do get that you apparently have nothing to have actually been shocked over in life so a simple statement menas the world to you. Meh....

Thanks for letting us know you think Ghandi and MLK were ignorant.

Right. The cause these folks are standing for has ANYTHING to do with MLK or Ghandi. Keep trying to elevate yourselves. It wont work.

Freedom to be treated equal

Revolt against a foreign ruler

I want my college debt forgiven


It just doesn't seem to go together somehow.

Having thought about the Portland situation --

were there no storm, I'd get over there and explain this is a chance to get rid of the violent elements and such: wait until twenty minutes before the deadline, and then all the peaceful people just grab everything and move to a different park. If it were up to me, they'd also let the police know beforehand, with a message saying that they haven't been able to clean out the violent elements from their midst, so they're going to move their 'midst' and leave the bad element behind for the cops to deal with.

And I'd suggest that the cops enlist the fire department, and rig up a tank of very soapy water, and hose down the violent element. Use the right soap, and it would enrich the soil.

I do like the idea of water cannons. Much less sustained damaged to anyone. Definitely gets the message across. That and them canons hurt like hell even if they dont leave a mark. The soap part? I dunno. That would make it much more like a three stooges bit and make the people who wont leave very hard to arrest.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Here's their disclaimer.

The disclaimer that 'we cannot control what individuals do' is especially reasonable for such a young--almost 2 months old!--movement.

Even the GOP or the Democrats can't totally control what individuals do at their events. The best they can do is hire lots of security.

As the movement grows I think it will develop greater means of organizing peaceful events. (I certainly hope that means OWS won't become yet another flock of well-controlled sheep; civil disobedience ought to be both civil AND disobedient.)

In the meantime, opponents will stoke the fires to discredit the reasonable and just ideas OWS supports.

 

[Kulindahr]

Right. The cause these folks are standing for has ANYTHING to do with MLK or Ghandi. Keep trying to elevate yourselves. It wont work.

Freedom to be treated equal

Revolt against a foreign ruler

I want my college debt forgiven


It just doesn't seem to go together somehow.

Is this some of your humor?

Or more fallacious misrepresentation?

I'd say the Occupy movement is about both of the first two, if you recast the second as freedom from being owned by a remote elite.

I do like the idea of water cannons. Much less sustained damaged to anyone. Definitely gets the message across. That and them canons hurt like hell even if they dont leave a mark. The soap part? I dunno. That would make it much more like a three stooges bit and make the people who wont leave very hard to arrest.

Not at all. The cops just strap on temporary cleats over their regular shoes and wear total-grip rubber gloves which have hand surfaces covered with ridges lined with small bumps -- they won't grip something greased, but soap? no sweat.

Or just fence the violent ones in and ignore them till they come kneel and offer their wrists to be cuffed.

 

[Kulindahr]

The disclaimer that 'we cannot control what individuals do' is especially reasonable for such a young--almost 2 months old!--movement.

Even the GOP or the Democrats can't totally control what individuals do at their events. The best they can do is hire lots of security.

As the movement grows I think it will develop greater means of organizing peaceful events. (I certainly hope that means OWS won't become yet another flock of well-controlled sheep; civil disobedience ought to be both civil AND disobedient.)

In the meantime, opponents will stoke the fires to discredit the reasonable and just ideas OWS supports.

As I understand it, people at some of Ghandi's 'events' had to be specially chosen so they would get angry, wouldn't get violent, wouldn't back out. The Occupy movement is going to have to learn the same thing, and come up with the means to enforce it.

MLK's people ran classes in civil disobedience. I haven't heard of anything like that except hints from Cincinnati, a reference to learning sessions. It needs to be done.

 

[JayHawk]

Not humour and I dont see that. But that is where we dont see OWS as the same movement based off of the statements of the people actually doing that occupation stuff.

I don't see the 99% thing either. they are less than 1 percent of the people. They say they represent the 99 but the 99 apparently doesn't wanted them to represent them by a margin of 54% (if you believe the polling data showing a 46% support of the IDEAS)

No I don't see the corollaries at all. We have a system to extract those politicians that will not do as we wish. It does not involve bankrupting businesses that so unfortunately happen to be around a public square. It does not involve gathering together the lowest of the low to claim that everyone is welcome to party on the bus. The alleged building the pallets were taken behind to make weapons? The 420 house. I am all for legal 420 too. BUT they devalue themselves and their point of view when they destroy all around them.

 

[fetaby]

It is time for the people who actually have ideas in the OWS movement to step up and offer a way forward. Some leadership.

I was beaten and told I didn't get it earlier when I suggested that the people who have real issues and real solutions step up to the plate. They did so in Occupy Cincinnati but it does not appear that outside of one town in America the OS folks are interested in actually using our system to make change.

What the video above demonstrates is that even in uber-liberal parts of this nation there will be no standing and burning it till it changes protest. They will be squashed. I know beat me up because I say that. Whatever. In many places the authorities have allowed this crap to go on and then there is continuing unacceptable damage to personal and public property and felonious activities. I mean in fuckin Berkeley? Really?

Something I don't get from the Berkeley video is why about nine to 20 officers appear surrounded by thousands of students? It has to be just the angle of the shoot. If I was surrounded by a mob and they wouldn't let me pass and were screaming in my face i might react. But then again those kids either need to choose. Leave or disarm those cops. Just standing there getting swacked is ignorant.

Can I at least beat you off first?

But as to using the system to enact change? The system itself is flawed. Not only is there no confidence in the elected, there is no trust either. And that goes for anyone willing to jump off that bridge.

But lets suppose that we could get a government that puts the well being of 99% of the populace above the 1%. (cause I mean, if you're one of the 1% do you really need to worry about your well being?)
What could they possibly do to the systems that brought us to the place we are today?

Drastic changes need to occur for the species to even survive the next 50 years. To think that protesting the aggregate debt of our society even comes close to what needs to happen is a farce.

The IEA just released this mess... http://www.zacks.com/stock/news/64528/Sobering+Outlook+from+the+IEA

Yeah.

 

[JayHawk]

Oh I agree but I surely haven't seen the OWS protest demanding a energy future that is attainable. Where is that demand?

The OWS and things like it will become more and more because the world is supply and demand and unfortunately a world that is moving past 7billion and rapidly towards 9billion will develop a helluva lot more have nots.

 

[fetaby]

It was part of the idea near the beginning. But was quickly discarded because that angle is the toughest to get through, IMO. How can we chang our systems when we all have a greed for complacency? Things aren't a problem unless they are an immediate threat it seems.

 

[Kulindahr]

Oh I agree but I surely haven't seen the OWS protest demanding a energy future that is attainable. Where is that demand?

The OWS and things like it will become more and more because the world is supply and demand and unfortunately a world that is moving past 7billion and rapidly towards 9billion will develop a helluva lot more have nots.

What the OWS are protesting is that the US is deliberately turning out more have-nots in order to enrich the mega-haves.

 

[Stardreamer]

I believe you are looking at the situation backwards. Capp didn't hate the dissenters, he hated the ones that caused trouble. The 99% are the ones that are Occupy Wall Street. What your link states as the 4% being the ones destroying things.

I heard a commentator on the radio talking about that. He was observing that there is a what I guess we can call a small group of semi-pro anarchists who gravitate to protest gatherings like OWS. These are the folks who save up to go to G20 and other economic and social protests and like to cause trouble. If see shops being vandalized or cars burning in the street, it usually because this tiny handful got into he crowd and incited it. If they are coming to the OWS gatherings and it is exactly the type of movement that attracts them, it is a tribute to the leadership and quality of the vast majority of the OWS folks that the vandalism has been largely contained.

 

[White Eagle]

I liked the post above, I think it was Kuli, get the OWS at a meeting to plan to leave the park at the time the police said. Don't tell the troublemakers and let the police handle what's leftover, the SWINE.

 

[JayHawk]

What the OWS are protesting is that the US is deliberately turning out more have-nots in order to enrich the mega-haves.

Right. But they are not arguing it from the standpoint of the earth's finite resources. They are arguing from the stance of 'i aint got none'. That is a far cry from the resources of this place are dwindling and we need to find ways to conserve as a human race before the curtain falls on ocean levels, on energy resources, and on food.

 

[White Eagle]

Religious Right Trying to Pray Away Occupy Wall Street
Well it was bound to happen. Those elephantgelicals are gonna try anything to get God on their side. I don't think it's gonna work.


http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/losing-its-bloom.html

Friday, November 11, 2011


Losing its bloom?

by digby

In case you were wondering if the religious right was going to join the Occupy Movement in solidarity with the poor and disenfranchised as Jesus would have done, think again. Via Right Wing watch, here's the Family Research Council requesting that their members pray for the movement to fizzle:

The expanded Wall Street Occupation is endorsed by labor unions, liberal mayors, governors, the White House, the American Nazi and Communist parties, ACORN, Hollywood enertainers [sic] and a long list of supra-liberal and liberal groups, not the least of which is the liberal media.