Officially voting for John McCain.

[jamessmith08]

I'm a hardcore conservative but for crying out loud John McCain stands against everything Republicans claim to stand for. I'm no fan of Obama's New Deal style plans or universal healthcare etc etc...but McCain = endless war. McCain = torture. McCain = more Bush, and we can't take another 4 years of this hell. Obama's New Deal and all that crap is the price us republicans have to pay for electing George Bush in the first place. We fucked up hard and now there's nothing left to do but suck it up, because McCain will make it worse, not better. In 8 years maybe we'll get lucky and get a Reagan again, but if we elect McCain we'll be 8 years into WW III

Where have you been since 9/11/01? We're already IN WWIII the parameters might have changed but the outcome is still the same. We have troops in Iraq & Afghanistan our forces are fighting warS in two different countries...its the "WAR on terrorism"

Like it or not we're stuck...'pulling out' of Iraq will only make things worse. They won't follow us home, but a destablized oil rich country like Iraq will undermine any progress we need to make at home in the economy.

It isn't as simple as "leave Iraq=happy world"...If we never went there in the first place EVERYTHING would've been better.

What we can do is stay in Iraq and rebuild. We destabilized the country and it isn't going to take 4 or 8 years to rebuild it's going to take decades and multiple administrations working with Iraq and sending aid to restablize the country and reshape it into a democratic entity. It's a commitment we cannot walk away from or things will get worse.

I don't like McCain and I really don't care for Obama either, but at least McCain doesn't make vague promises...his are blatantly see through

 

[CGHJ]

OK you're right there, but we need to get out, not dig ourselves in deeper.

We are not stuck, and pulling out of Iraq will make things better, not worse. McCain will attack Iran, which will make things many times worse.

Saying things will get worse is the same as the people who warned we couldn't leave Vietnam because communists would take over the world. Never happened. It didn't get worse, it got better. Iraq will get better if we leave there, too.

And yes, WW III is already underway...but McCain will scale it up to its full potential, and there will be chaos that will reduce the security of the United States for decades.

Also you mention 9-11. Don't forget that draining our treasury is Osama's plan, Osama wants McCain in office just like he wanted George Bush in office. He wants war, because war serves his purpose, not ours. A vote for McSame (I like that) is the same as a vote for Osama bin Laden as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Giovanni]

OK you're right there, but we need to get out, not dig ourselves in deeper.

We are not stuck, and pulling out of Iraq will make things better, not worse. McCain will attack Iran, which will make things many times worse.

Saying things will get worse is the same as the people who warned we couldn't leave Vietnam because communists would take over the world. Never happened. It didn't get worse, it got better. Iraq will get better if we leave there, too.

And yes, WW III is already underway...but McCain will scale it up to its full potential, and there will be chaos that will reduce the security of the United States for decades.

Also you mention 9-11. Don't forget that draining our treasury is Osama's plan, Osama wants McCain in office just like he wanted George Bush in office. He wants war, because war serves his purpose, not ours. A vote for McSame (I like that) is the same as a vote for Osama bin Laden as far as I'm concerned.

The problems caused by the U.S being deployed in Iraq should be fixed before we leave.

Not very nice to go in a country, fuck it up and leave it as is.

 

[frankfrank]

[CGHJ]McCain will attack Iran, which will make things many times worse.

And yes, WW III is already underway...but McCain will scale it up to its full potential, and there will be chaos that will reduce the security of the United States for decades.

And, in the process, it will be the death of the United States of America.

When Saudi Arabia/Russia/Venezuela etc. entirely blockade exports to the U.S., and China gets pissed off and decides that a totally psychotic country on the other side of the world should no longer exist, we're toast. the Oil producers may indeed undergo a short-lived recession, but it won't take very long for the rest of the world to replace the entire missing U.S. market. Ten years, maybe, at the most?

And the U.S. will in no way be able to retaliate against an ENTIRE WORLD which will be trying hard to vanquish it into the rubbish bin of history.

This is, I believe, the McCain scenario - though VERY POSSIBLY George Bush will see that Iran gets nuked before he leaves office, at which point it natters for naught whether the next President is Obama or McCain.

 

[Apollo]

I'm a hardcore conservative but for crying out loud John McCain stands against everything Republicans claim to stand for. I'm no fan of Obama's New Deal style plans or universal healthcare etc etc...but McCain = endless war. McCain = torture. McCain = more Bush, and we can't take another 4 years of this hell. Obama's New Deal and all that crap is the price us republicans have to pay for electing George Bush in the first place. We fucked up hard and now there's nothing left to do but suck it up, because McCain will make it worse, not better. In 8 years maybe we'll get lucky and get a Reagan again, but if we elect McCain we'll be 8 years into WW III

Reagan was a horrible president. Most noted with destroying the economy. No one would want a new Reagan.

We need a new Bill Clinton (Hilary is not that). Bill ended our debt and created a surplus. He was and still IS loved around the world. You will find a lot of people around the world wishing for another Clinton too.

 

[Soilwork]

John McCain knows what war and death means much better than any other candidate because he seen death and destruction, .

Well and he's experienced them both.

How did they reanimate him, anyway?

was it a voodoo curse like in Weekend at Bernie's II?

You conservatards make me laugh. You're all scared that someone might actually be able to solve a problem with their minds and not brute force and guns and bigger bombs.

And then where would you be?

 

[CGHJ]

Go ask U.S. troops who are doing their 4th tour on the ground in Iraq; what they think about withdrawing troops at this point, and ask them if they are wasting their time and lives there.

This is where living next to a marine base and having marines almost exclusively for friends comes in handy, because I can answer this: Almost every marine I know, many of them who have gone for 3 and yes even 4 tours, are sick of it. They know that they are wasting their time and their lives there, and they fucking want out right now. they know perfectly well that they are dying for the Haliburton Corporation and they are plenty pissed off about it.

Watch what the military vote does in the upcoming election, I think you'll be surprised.

 

[CGHJ]

. Someone should tell him that we are there now to prevent terror groups from destabilizing the country. He should take a trip to Iraq because he has zero clue on what has transpired on the ground in 2 years.

You've been lied to, and the rest of us woke up to the truth long time ago. To paraphrase George W Bush: "Won't get fooled again!"

 

[Soilwork]

Go ask U.S. troops who are doing their 4th tour on the ground in Iraq; what they think about withdrawing troops at this point, and ask them if they are wasting their time and lives there.

Um, actually, I know 8 men who have served or are serving in Iraq. And yes... they are unanimous in their feeling that they are wasting their time, lives and the money of the country.

They ALL plan to vote for Barrack Obama.

Maybe you can explain why self-injury is now epidemic in troops who are being sent back to Iraq? That is.. if your reason is that people in the military actually think bombing a third world country back into the stone age has a purpose?

At this point we're not even bombing buildings.. just shuffling around the rubble.

 

[Soilwork]

"Won't get fooled again!"

technically, you're quoting a song by The Who.

but I'm with you.

Most of the people in America figured out they'd been had.

The remaining conservatards are a bit slow on the uptake, I guess.

 

[JackFTwist]

<clip> Code Pink clueless types <clip>

Go ask U.S. troops who are doing their 4th tour on the ground in Iraq; what they think about withdrawing troops at this point, and ask them if they are wasting their time and lives there.

John McCain knows what war and death means <clip> He should take a trip to Iraq because he has zero clue on what has transpired on the ground in 2 years.

I note your age: 22

I note your location: New York

you one of those types who talks all gung ho but will only see Iraq on a HD tv installed in your apartment?

my son has been there - why aren't backing up your words with your life?

 

[CGHJ]

This is very interesting but of course hard to believe, because I too know lots of people that served and serve from various branches on the ground, and a good number of them are highly motivated and believe in the cause. McCain is very popular with veteran groups and Active Duty personnel. The military is highly motivated and are performing very well, look at the officer core performance in Iraq and compare it to Vietnam...

I'm sure you know a lot of people, but I live in a military town and ALL of my friends are enlisted. Yes you can find some for McCain but good luck finding any that are for the war.

Can I assume that from your screenname and avatar most of the people you know are Air Force? There's nothing wrong with that, I was in the USAF. But the marines are the ones actually doing this shit on the ground every day and believe me, they have some pretty harsh things to say.

You say they are motivated and they are--to do a good job, and to do right by their buddies. I've known several guys that reenlisted so as to go back over again...to support their buddies. But they know that the war is a rotten lie and if they do, you should too.

 

[CGHJ]

technically, you're quoting a song by The Who.

Technically he was, it was one of the funniest moments of Bush's presidency:



Note that the clip was recorded off a show with a laughing audience, the original audience was not laughing, although it was probably pretty hard not to.

 

[Soilwork]

if it helps you sleep better at night..

ok.

 

[Soilwork]

By the way.. why AREN'T you over there fighting?

Are you like all the other conservatard youth who have a rather high rate of minor physical problems that don't stop them from playing football but DO stop them from serving?

 

[Soilwork]

Hm.

Guess instead of putting your money where your mouth is, you'll just cheer from the sidelines.

I think the only way to support the troops is to bring them all home now while they're still alive.

I think asking them to die for no apparent reason is kinda... anti-American.

 

[Apollo]

Wait, you are asking this "conservatard" to go kill babies in a 3rd world country; I though liberals were better than that?
Patriotism, respect for Armed Services and belief in certain military action is not reserved to those that only serve. It's OK if you are a civilian and respect the military and understand the value and role they play in our lives, or support military action.
My selective service card is ready, and I will one day try the military route again.

You will one day try the military route once the war is over. Until then, you will call non-supporters of the war sissies and un-american.

Your dodging of why you aren't over there fighting would make any republican proud.

 

[Soilwork]

Do as he SAYS, not as he DOES.

like most Republicans.

 

[Apollo]

Please send me all the quotes where I have called non supporters of war as "sissies and un-American," please do so I can respond.

The only type of anti-war crowd that I ever did call un-American in my life was the type that held signs accusing U.S. troops of war crimes and killing babies. The only type that I did called un-American was the type that held signs in anti-war rallies that read "I support the insurgents," "I support the resistance."

As to why I'm not fighting is no ones' business here because I don't have to build my credibility based on whether I serve or not. If I would serve the same crowd would still come up with continuous counter-arguments.

But he asked you a question and you refuse to answer it straight. Yet if you ask someone else a question, you would expect them to answer it like anyone.

But you are a republican, and republicans must be held to a different standard of course. I mean they support this war, and say we should say, but it's no ones business to why they themselves aren't over there. The only republicans I will ever respect who put are in Iraq right now helping to fight or rebuild. Those are true men IMO

 

[Apollo]

I agree with you; I respect troops who are in Democrat party and are fighting there as well. I only wish Democrats would put their past idol and themselves to the same standard when he risked American troops in various combats while he was in office.

I pulled out of ROTC process for a reason and it wasn't because of Iraq war, as I tried it when we were already fighting. but I don't have to prove myself here or anywhere.
Yes I'm gay and value "conservatard" views, and I don't tend to shy away when something is unpopular, especially in the gay world. Not the kool-aid drinking type. You can either have legitimate discussion on the issue or can continue your immature character assassination games. Playing your game I will say that since you care about opinions of those that only served, I'm proudly announcing that John McCain is your man, but I know he too is a problem. I'm sure the only message you would respect is of those troops that support your opinion anyways.

The troops Bill Clinton put in harm were in less danger than the troops today. The troops under Bill Clinton went into the army, were trained, were further trained, and knew the EXACT date they were going to be in the army if it was only temporary. There was no question of if the army is going to SUNDDENLY extend my stay. Far fewer troops suffered from PTSD.

Not to mention, the troops were doing things that not only the American People agreed with, but the rest of the world did too. Well for most of it, I can't say all of it. Nevertheless, our reputation wasn't destroyed over a military action under Clinton.

No I respect all of the troops. They have the balls to join the army, any sector of the army knowing that there is a 99% chance of going into Iraq or Afganistan. They are putting not only their physical life, but their emotional life on the line for a useless war. I would never do it, but the fact that they can is something that gains my full respect.

I don't see you discussing issues either. You have made no sound reason why McCain is a good candidate. Although, I haven't looked because there is no sound reason.

I like that your reason for not serving is because the gays wouldn't like it, as you support conservative politics on a gay forum.