Officially voting for John McCain.

[Soilwork]

INot the kool-aid drinking type.

That's the funniest thing you've said all through this thread.

Sorry, but buddy, support for this "war" is nothing but kool-aid with a bullshit chaser.

If you can't see that, it explains an awful lot.

 

[Apollo]

So you argue that the only time U.S. should take action is when we are popular and it's easy? OKKK very sound and logical. I just hope the next president doesn't act only when it's easy and popular in the eye world. Are you saying our troops are not being properly trained, because to the contrary a lot of advancements have been made in training and military technologies during these conflicts.

How can there be sound argument here when I have to reply to continuous character assassinations? I like that you have not read my posts but already know.. I also like how you inserted an answer for me that I have never said.

Where did you get that from? I said under Clinton, our military action wasn't the downfall of this country.

They are not properly trained, they are barely out of basic training before being thrust into Iraq or Afganistan.

How is technological advancements an indication or their training? Military technology is always advancing, there is a yearly trade show showing off the newest and latest war technologies. One happens in France. Just watch Discovery channel, they go to these events ever so often.

Why don't you ignore the character assassinations and make sound arguements? No one said you had to engage me.

 

[Apollo]

Marines are always well trained, very true. So are Air Force when you think of it.

I would love to see the figures of people reenlisting for a 4 tour. Nor for a 2nd tour. Most of the soldiers are having their tours involuntarily extended.

And I am refering to poor training of new recruits. Soldiers who have been there for a long time get on the job training, and become well seasoned soldiers very fast. But they should have that experience before entering a war zone.

 

[CGHJ]

I am going to have to agree that yes, the troops are fairly well trained now, mostly by experience.

Also I must say that it is true that the security situation has vastly improved over there. I hear this directly from the guys, especially in Anbar province which used to be a hellhole, marines can walk around now. That being said violence has only been reduced to a 2005 level, it's still bad in lots of places.

However the reason the security situation has improved so much is

A) we are literally paying these people not to fight
B) Al Qaida overplayed their hand and it turned out the people were into Islam but not to the point where it was cool to slaughter innocent people all the time
C) The Sunni are scared of the Shia, and although they were once our enemy now they know that we're the only thing stopping them from getting massacred.

If we leave Al Qaida isn't going to take over, they hate Al Qaida. There might be a civil war, and quite frankly I think they should just get it over with. It's sad that people have to fight, but frankly the Sunnis made the Shia's lives hell for a long time and maybe they have it coming.

It comes down to this: is it worth the blood and treasure of the United States to stabilize Iraq. I say no. They've been fighting for hundreds of years and it's utterly naive to think that we're going to stop them. Saddam had the solution: ruthless oppression kept a lid on all that bullshit. Yes it's unfair that we uncorked that bottle...although I have to say that some of did see this coming quite clearly and were quite vocal in our warnings and now that it's all fucked up maybe you should listen to us?

I'm touched by the sense of responsibility of those that would say, "We broke it, now we bought it," but it's just insane to think that we can fix it, or that we are fixing it. The security situation has improved, but the political situation has not. The gov't is deadlocked, the place is a mess...and yes we can maybe keep it from falling apart for awhile but at what cost? It's just not worth it.

It's like an I Love Lucy episode, where the more she tries to fix something she just makes it worse. She means well, and at the end it looks like it might hold long enough for Ricky not to notice, but it will surely all come apart in the end.

Back to the original topic, John McCain...whatever the situation in Iraq is, we need to be trying to fix that somehow. By getting out or staying in, whatever. Elect McCain and it's war with Iran and god knows who else, that's only going to make things worse. LOTS worse. That's not trying to fix something, that's lighting a fire under the whole world.

 

[Soilwork]

Iraq destabilization is not an option for U.S. nor the West.

So... why did they destabilize it then?

I mean... like him or not, Sadam Hussein obviously knew something we didn't.

Weren't those people supposed to greet us as liberators?

Are you at least buying your own bullshit?

 

[JackFTwist]

Originally Posted by F22-Raptor
My selective service card is ready, and I will one day try the military route again.

when the fighting is over, wow

you won't risk your ass getting shot but you send others to fight a war that you will not fight

that is the lowest of the low, the most immoral of the immoral, to support a war and send others to fight when you refuse to do so yourself

terms like coward and hypocrite come to mind for people who do that

and those who act in such ways are worthy of scorn, not respect, of being shunned for their sending someone else to fight their battles while they stay at home

the utter selfishness and cowardice, the elitism and actually an enemy to America because if one believes that America should do something, then one gets involved in that

my son, many of my friends and his friends risk all so someone can popoff on a gay porn board

no matter what is said, the priorities are clear - the solder goes, the coward stays home and says rah rah, you fight, you risk, you die, your bear the wounds, when its over, I'll do something

pathetic

not even volunteering at a veterans facility while undergoing enlistment

pathetic and selfish

 

[The Warmth]

Keep the debate going, I like jerking it to Soil's sig.

 

[Soilwork]

Keep the debate going, I like jerking it to Soil's sig.

Yeah, it's pretty sweet, isn't it?

I think next week I'll go with my "what an asshole" sig.

 

[Kurn]

Technical Note:
Iraq/OIF is complex-enough that diverse perceptions can all have ground in truth.

I think that an Obama presidency is strategically superior to a McCain presidency.
Why? America can knock over several anti-American demon voodoo dolls at one blow.
And Obama can be relied upon to be tough militarily if a situation requires it. Or so it seems to me so far.

 

[Soilwork]

To be fair our "I'll get around to serving when I have time and I'm not so busy being alive and stuff" gay conservatard friend IS supporting a candidate who'll make sure that the war won't be over when he finally decides that he's got no more excuses and nothing left to live for and signs up.

OH.. except he's gay and he can't serve since John McCain supports any and all anti-gay legislation including the DADT policy.

How... [STRIKE]convenient[/STRIKE] unfortunate.

 

[LatinoSTAR]

Of Course im not Gonna Vote For McCain, you people are soo gullible.

 

[sunoftheskye]

I know,it's disgusting isn't it?

The Log Cabins are already making their case for McCain.

http://www.queerty.com/log-cabin-builds-mccain-case-20080606/

Pathetic.

Meanwhile...

 

[EvilForce]

The Log Cabins are already making their case for McCain.

http://www.queerty.com/log-cabin-builds-mccain-case-20080606/

Pathetic.

Meanwhile...

Log Cabin Republicans need to be pistol whipped.

 

[JackFTwist]

To be fair our "I'll get around to serving when I have time and I'm not so busy being alive and stuff" gay conservatard friend IS supporting a candidate who'll make sure that the war won't be over when he finally decides that he's got no more excuses and nothing left to live for and signs up.

OH.. except he's gay and he can't serve since John McCain supports any and all anti-gay legislation including the DADT policy.

How... [STRIKE]convenient[/STRIKE] unfortunate.

thank you sir