Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.

[LeicsDom]

Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46671457
A two-year-old boy has died from blood loss following a failed circumcision at a migrant centre in Italy.

<crosses legs>

 

[unloadonme]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

The BBC piece says Nigerians. I'll say no more.

 

[Cormac135]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

I've changed my mind.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

Let not the Judaic tradition hog the limelight:

The bloodthirsty Wicca cult --

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weir...ifice-daughter-Wolfman-murder-trial-Australia

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...l-killing-leaves-three-dead-pensacola-n404256


And then there are those thoughtful Satanists:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7460924/satanic-ritual-brazil-sex-murder-human-sacrifice/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/satanic-ritual-killing-siblings-sacrifice-12939025

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news...ice-release-details-of-grisly-child-sacrifice

And occasionally, even atheists seem to have their day:

https://books.google.com/books?id=q...nepage&q=Leonard lake murders atheist&f=false

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...romanov-dynasty-assassination-russia-history/

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html


Whereas I don't believe that citing an exception tars the group, if it's the order of the day, or the thread, then let's go to town with it. Oh and I left out Islam just because it takes a beating the other 364 days of the year.

Somehow it doesn't seem to matter much if your foreskin is intact when you've been slaughtered and burned.

 

[LeicsDom]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

I can see the justification back in 'the old days'
A foreskin was a trap for dirt and grit if you didn't have access to washing water like in a desert
As with so many archaic customs there was once a grain of truth or reason behind them
Jews and Muslims not eating pork was because pork was hard to preserve so didn't keep as long as beef
Not marrying outside your faith was a way of keeping the religion from being diluted
etc etc

 

[NotHardUp1]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

I can't believe preservation was much of a concern. You kill an animal, cook it, and eat it. It's not like they were making mutton jerky down there in Egypt.

No one's happy about a child dying, but citing an extreme as evidence in the circumcision debate seems simply unfair. There are billions of people on this planet. Everything can and does happen eventually. That lady that slipped in her attic and died between the walls of her home, undetected, is a prime example.

Maybe it's the era. We have enough division of right from left, young from old, and rich from poor. It just seems like an unnecessary war to wage for penis sheaths.

 

[Alistair]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

^ I may be mistaken, but I don't see anyone using the story to claim anything.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

In fairness, Leicsdom has posted a series of anti-circumcision threads. It is a running protest.

 

[LeicsDom]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

In fairness, Leicsdom has posted a series of anti-circumcision threads. It is a running protest.

True
I do find it an abhorrent abuse of children when it is non medical

 

[NotHardUp1]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

I agree on the non-medical conclusion, just not on the abhorrent. Way too many men out there enjoying their penises cut for them to be suffering. Others cannot proclaim suffering by proxy.

You could be raised blind or deaf or amputated and learn you are suffering by contrast once you are old enough. However, men learn every day that they are cut vs. uncut yet millions upon millions have no complaint and absolutely do not see themselves as abuse victims.

It is likely more would find abhorrent the accusation that their parents were abusers.

 

[Pierresro]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

Terrible. How any asshole thinks that GOD is perfect but he forgot to get some skin off shows the stupidity of religion!

 

[NotHardUp1]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

And to think there are over 2.2 billion "assholes" on this planet for you to feel superior to. That must be quite the ego boost. And fuel for endless attacks.

Soooo many people to hate, and you have so little time left. Thank God there is JUB to help you reach the masses.

Let's see, we could add another 1.9 billion Muslims. That must provide a lot of comfort to you.

And Hinduism, adding in another 1.2 billion. Gee, add them to the pile and fully 5.3 billion souls on this planet are assholes before you even get to the minor religions.

Why can't more people be like you, Henry Higgins, why? How frustrating the world must be.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

I can see the justification back in 'the old days'
A foreskin was a trap for dirt and grit if you didn't have access to washing water like in a desert
As with so many archaic customs there was once a grain of truth or reason behind them
Jews and Muslims not eating pork was because pork was hard to preserve so didn't keep as long as beef
Not marrying outside your faith was a way of keeping the religion from being diluted
etc etc

Even those customs were not based on a "grain of truth" at all.

"A foreskin was a trap for dirt and grit." Until we developed germ theory, and devoloped microscopes, and discovered that the foreskin is actually the protection you needed against dirt and grit, and bacteria and germs.

"Not eating pork was because pork was hard to preserve so didn't keep as long as beef." But eating chicken was somehow alright, while it keeps least long of all meat. And cured correctly, pork actually keeps the longest of all.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

No one's happy about a child dying, but citing an extreme as evidence in the circumcision debate seems simply unfair.

It's not as extreme as you think. According to some WHO health experts, up to 30% of circumcisions in Africa are botched, if we define botched as "leaving the child with irreparable damage" (other than the circumcision itself, cynics would add). But in the USA the figure is also an astonishing 2-3%, though that number ceases to be astonishing once you see how long the average American circumcision takes: seconds rather than minutes. Never mind the boy has to pee, fap and fornicate with it for the rest of his life.

I've heard American cutters defend the practice because it alledgely prevents penile cancer. But less than a hundred Americans die of penile cancer in a given year, while more than a thousand boys die of complications due to botched circumcisions. More than a thousand. In America. For a tradition that has no purpose whatsoever.

 

[unloadonme]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

Terrible. How any asshole thinks that GOD is perfect but he forgot to get some skin off shows the stupidity of religion!

There must be many better arguments for the stupidity of religion than circumcision, but I suppose it's a start.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

And to think there are over 2.2 billion "assholes" on this planet for you to feel superior to. That must be quite the ego boost. And fuel for endless attacks.

Soooo many people to hate, and you have so little time left. Thank God there is JUB to help you reach the masses.

Let's see, we could add another 1.9 billion Muslims. That must provide a lot of comfort to you.

And Hinduism, adding in another 1.2 billion. Gee, add them to the pile and fully 5.3 billion souls on this planet are assholes before you even get to the minor religions.

Just because stupidity is widespread doesn't make it less stupid.

And how on earth can there be 1.9 billion muslims? Unless you assume that every single inhabitant of every single muslim-majority country is a faithful muslim, as well as every westerner with one or more grandparents from said countries. Quod non. But when religion is involved, you tend to see everything in absolutes.

 

[unloadonme]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

True
I do find it an abhorrent abuse of children when it is non medical

I agree. There are international campaigns aiming at eradicating female genital mutilation, but that the male equivalent is virtually obligatory in some societies is widely considered to be perfectly acceptable.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

The rub is that the vast majority of cut men do not see it as a) an abuse, b) undesirable, and c) don't view it as a religious obligation, but a cultural norm with no more consequence than cutting one's nails.

Usually, liberation theology is appealing for those who agree they are victims. Supposedly, this campaign appeals on behalf of the voiceless children, yet, the overwhelming majority of those kids grow to be adults who do not agree that it is a problem.

For those who do, there are many lasting impacts of one's natal culture which one does not get to choose in hindsight.

 

[Telstra]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

between €2,000 (£1,798) and €4,000 (£3,596) for cutting a skin ?

 

[LeicsDom]

Re: Italy circumcision kills toddler, with one man charged

The rub is that the vast majority of cut men do not see it as a) an abuse, b) undesirable, and c) don't view it as a religious obligation, but a cultural norm with no more consequence than cutting one's nails.

Except that if you cut your nails they will grow back