Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.

[luminum]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

This is hardly old news, but just to be brief:

While studies have varied in determining the efficacy of the procedure, more studies have recently shown that it may be very effective, to that I concede. However, there are several reason for why I still disapprove.

1) The cost of the medical procedure must come from somewhere, and the cost of circumcising one man and monitoring and enforcing his recovery afterwards is probably equivalent to 100 - 1000 condoms. Having to circumcise every man in Africa is a huge waste of money compare to the efficacy of condoms. The cost is ridiculous.

2) Circumcisions works in no way to educate and change sexual health practices. It is a risk-reduction practice that if enacted would override the bigger issue--that condom use and sexual health education is the most effective and safest way to handle the HIV/AIDS crisis. Risk reduction is important, but it should never be the strongest card in your hand.

 

[pigeonpost]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

Why just not say..don't have sex.That will certainly cut the risk of Aids.I just feel a bit of a niggle knowing that in the USA most men are/were cut and still died in their thousands.Like newboy I jst wonder how they have come to this conclusion

 

[Orlandude]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

The medical community has long held the opinion that circumcision reduces the risk of several infections and STD's, not just AIDS. This is old news. However, the HIV virus that causes AIDS hardly knows the difference between cut and uncut. I agree with other posters that the ONLY way to reduce or eliminate risk is abstinence or the use of a condom. If you are having unprotected sex (in particular anal sex) with someone you don't know or don't know their HIV status for certain, you are placing yourself at risk....cut or uncut.

 

[Soilwork]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

Oh, and you notice that it doesn't protect women at all?

Looks like someone's anti-foreskin bias to me instead of a way to curb public health.

 

[Orlandude]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

Oh, and you notice that it doesn't protect women at all?

Looks like someone's anti-foreskin bias to me instead of a way to curb public health.

I would agree. The article is ridiculous, particularly in view of the fact that one of the groups with the highest incident of new HIV infections are young WOMEN! Of course, what this means is that the men they are having sex with are being less than honest about their sexual escapades and aren't using protection. As a general rule, women do not give each other HIV. The common denominator is mostly the PENIS , apart from a bad blood transfusion or dirty needles.

 

[HartfordGuy]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

It may be harder for uncut guys to catch HIV, but if cut and uncut guys wear a condom everytime then it is a moot point.

The next thing you'll hear is it is ok to bareback if you're circumsized. Shear stupidity.

The government needs to keep working on a vaccine.

 

[sixthson]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

I understand the medical reasoning behind this belief and assuming it is indeed true, it still is not the foreskin that is to blame, but the behavior of the the people involved.
Will the men who get circumcised feel even freer to practice unsafe sex when they are told they are at less risk?
It's all about the penis (cut or uncut) coming into contact with the virus.
Basically, this assumes that people are too stupid to be educated about all forms of STDs and STIs. There will always be those (educated or not) who will choose to have risky sex. We see that with the rise in promiscuous bareback sex even in the US.

Humans need to take responsibility for their own actions in every area of life and that includes their sex lives.

 

[Shepherd 2]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

Bull shit.
If any doctor wants to remove my foreskin.
He will be sued.

There is not one shred of evidence that circumciism has one whit to do with increase of HIV. Not one shred of evidence. Notice, none was given. It is out and out bigotry from the US medical community who has been merriily removing foreskins without any real justification, except it mirrors their own condition.

I have followed this discussion, and I am appalled that this is even suggested. By now the overwhelming majority of American men have had circumcism done. We should almost have no HIV. Really!

I hear a number on this forum say what they prefer, probably it like what they see in the mirror and no real experience. I think it is time that we uncut speak to the unfortunate bigotry we experience in private, in gyms and internet web sites. It is time to stop.

What I experience, in many ways men with cut cocks will never experience. Do they want to know. No. Just order everyone to have it done. In that case why don't we eliminate gay people.
Shep+

 

[Andreus]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

AIDS is a condition that is a result of HIV

I cant see how circumcision would stop the progression of the virus

if the author means that the virus spreads less that way then its ridiculous

one half of all people that are positive are unaware that they are due to shenanigans of this sort in the press

the only way to stay HIV negative is to have safe sex at all times and not get contaminated blood during medical emergencies... dont want to even mention the shared needles thing.... we all know the drill

there is no short cut here, guys

if you dont use condoms you WILL get HIV

it has nothing to do with circumcision

 

[blackbeltninja]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

2) Circumcisions works in no way to educate and change sexual health practices. It is a risk-reduction practice that if enacted would override the bigger issue--that condom use and sexual health education is the most effective and safest way to handle the HIV/AIDS crisis. Risk reduction is important, but it should never be the strongest card in your hand.

To mention the third-world perspective, and/or mentality since it is news here pretty much every day:

A lot of the African men see condoms as a "threat" to their masculinity. We can't even GIVE them away here. It doesn't help, either, that various tribal elders and witchdoctors suggest sleeping with a virgin (read: baby, or young girl; more daily news here in .za) as a magical cure for AIDS.

Add to that an official policy on AIDS recommending nutrition over antiretrovirals, and a fairly recent utterance by our president that HIV is only a fairly small part of AIDS since it is a syndrome, and the government's continued courting of HIV dissidents - those who propagate the myth that HIV does not exist (!!!!) - and you see what we're up against.

Circumcision, however, is a traditional practice for when a boy becomes a man. I think that encouraging it earlier in life as a protective measure may actually get more hits than education has thus far.

Sad, but all completely true, I'm afraid.

There is not one shred of evidence that circumciism has one whit to do with increase of HIV. Not one shred of evidence. Notice, none was given. It is out and out bigotry from the US medical community who has been merriily removing foreskins without any real justification, except it mirrors their own condition.

Actually, this was a fairly landmark report given at the big AIDS conference earlier this year, and I think has since made it into one of the big journals - either the Lancet or the NEJM. It is officially science fact.

-d-

 

[runner]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

The report is a load of crap. Circumcision has nothing to do with the virus.

 

[cityboy-stl]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

Hacking off part of your penis does not curb AIDS! SAFER SEX curbs AIDS. It doesn't seem to have helped AIDS here in U.S. with a high circumcision rate.

 

[Andreus]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

heres the real info....

go to the link...

http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV.html

ill post a bit of it here.....

Recently, several studies have been published, most from Africa, one from India, claiming to show a link between having an intact penis and a higher risk of HIV infection. They tend to have two things in common - flawed work, and a passage near the end saying "Therefore, universal male circumcision should be considered as a preventive measure against HIV infection" or words to that effect.
This advice is folly.

• Any link between circumcision and HIV is statistically quite slight, so the protection would be quite inefficient compared to education in safe-sex practices and a culture of protected or otherwise safe(r) sex.
• The studies are trumpetted by their Relative Risk Reduction (RRR), but the corresponding Number Needed to Treat (NNT) is much less impressive. (In the latest Uganda study it is 56 circumcisions to prevent one HIV infection per year. That corresponds to 380 circumcisions in the US, where AIDS is less prevalent.)
• As each new study corrects the errors of its predecessors, the protection claimed is less. When all the errors are corrected, what will be left?

In the case of randomised controlled trials (RCT)

• While large numbers of men enter a trial, only a very small number are infected, making random errors high.
• Significant numbers of men drop out of the trials. Only those who stay the distance should be counted.
• Those who are circumcised and contract HIV will be more likely to drop out than the others because
  1. they got what they came for but
  2. circumcision didn't protect them, so they will be disillusioned with the trial
• The last three studies have been cut short: this reduces their accuracy.
• The gold standard of medical testing is the double blind random controlled trial. Circumcision can not be concealed from the experimenter or the subject. The control group is not given a placebo operation.
• The aftereffects of the operation are likely to alter sexual behaviour
• In an experimental environment, the subjects get counselling and safe-sex advice that would not be available in a mass circumcision campaign.
• The circumcised group gets specific instructions to abstain from sex and use condoms that the intact control group does not.

If these results are acted on, with mass circumcision campaigns:

• Protection, if any, would be extended to a population, but it would be impossible to convince the average man that circumcision did not confer significant protection on him personally.
• The temptation would be irresistible - especially if he had submitted to a painful operation in adulthood - for a man to say "I'm circumcised, I'm safe".
  • He would be more likely to lean on partners for unprotected sex
  • This disempowers women
• Since circumcision desensitises the glans, men circumcised in adulthood would be less willing to use condoms than before.
• If they combine mass circumcision with Abstinence, Be faithful, Condoms, campaigns, as they propose, it will be impossible to tell what is responsible for the outcome: circumcision will be given the credit for any reduction, but will not have to take the blame for any lack of reduction.

 

[Shepherd 2]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

Consideer the hew and cry when we universally remove men's prostates, and therefore stop all seminal emissions, and remove all men's terticles and stop all sperm. Let me see what else could we do. WHO is a good acronym for a so called health organization.
I have both worked on health care studies in the past and I have participated in such studies. They are not about statements of truth. As often as not they are sponsored by pharmasuetical companies who are interested in profits, and by people who are not seeing the large picture, but have an axe to grind.
In 1990 I was teaching at a college. I had long taught as the Congress and medicine was saying that not only men but women should take one aspirin every day to stave off heart attacks.
In fact not one woman was a part of the 27,000 people studied. Yet it was believed as if it was scientifically certain. I must see more than wishful thinking. Scientific fact is not an idea or theory, but only tightly observed clinical study it is proven. I do not see that in the issue of circumcision. Shep+

 

[Shepherd 2]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

Doesn't this thread belong in health.
But I was glad it was here and got noticed. Thanks.
Shep +
Foreskins forever!

 

[Soilwork]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

Of course let's also not forget that it's typical puritanical American straight person bullshit.

"Don't actually talk to your kids about safer sex and dont' talk to them about condoms.. just get them circumcised at birth and forget it."

 

[Soilwork]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

Soilwork, the latest news about this has come from countries where circumcision isn't routinely practiced.

my point exactly.

They already have North Americans butchering their babies.. now they're going for Africa, Europe, Australia, Aisa...

 

[Soilwork]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

As for my own part, I believe circumcision might have a beneficial role in countries where routine condom usage is impractical. In rich countries, however, it's possibly better to wait until the patient comes of age so that he can make an intelligent decision.

No no.. I think we all agree.

Well, on the subject of rich countries, anyway.

 

[Danugh]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

The majority of the straight men i have been with have been uncut. They love to ask for head but they dont clean out under the foreskin. Its so nasty and it smells funky.


How can you ask for head if your penis is stank? How hard it to pull back and clean up.

Although i met a straight man last week and his penis couldnt be pulled back because the foreskin was so tight. I couldn't even see his penis head. He told me he might have to have an adult circumcision. I have never seen a before and after penis before so i am looking forward to it.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Re: Circumcision urged in curbing AIDS spread

If people want to avoid getting HIV they need to use a condom and have safer sex! Period.

That all works very well in the first world where many people are educated, and even those who aren't college grads still have at least some high school training.

That does not work at all well in the third world, where tribal/ancestral traditions overpower any sort of education, and one word from a respected village elder can undo 100 years of advances in modern medicine.

We're talking about people who still read the future in goat entrails, boys. people who throw the bones and ask for guidance from spirits and who believe that having sex with a virgin can cure AIDS because somebody in a position of authority said it can. For fuck's sake, our former vice-president had unprotected sex with an HIV+ woman and then took a long shower afterwards to prevent infecting himself! Look up Jacob Zuma if you think I am making this up.

You guys need to wake up and realise that the entire world does not have a US or EU standard of living, norms, traditions or cultures. If this intervention has even a slightly significant impact in reducing HIV transmission, it should be given due consideration. I think that would be much more useful than making out that circumcision is akin to castration or worse - really, it isn't.

-d-