Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.

[bankside]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Art should never be done with a scalpel. Case in point: Orlan.

 

[bankside]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Aw, come on, friend. The use of the term poll in a JUB thread has nothing to do necessarily with representative stats or even suggestive of trends.

No one could look at the posts in Hot Topics and assert that our posters are representative of even the larger cross-section of gay men, much less all men.

Then, pare down that already skewed pool to those who post in a thread that is a known catfight every time it surfaces, and you are surely at a point that it is just the pet topic of a few proponents and opponents of an old fight.

I'm not a defender of circumcision nor an attacker of it, but the thread is just a shitfest without being informative. It's all been said before, and any change in generational thinking that actually exists in America (as opposed to the European, Icelandic, and Australian posters) is in way different proportion to the tiny number of responders in your poll.

I like you, Justaguy, and always have, but this thread is not anything but a swirl of intransigent views, and little else.

You're too cynical. These threads have evolved since the first ones I've seen. People used to be astonished than anyone would dare speak in favour of a whole penis, but they're (very slowly - admittedly) getting over themselves.

 

[mikey3000]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Typical guerilla tactics by the anti-circ militia to try and emotionally injur those men who are content with themselves. Simply a political agenda. Again, I say, I don't care what your dick is like, I honestly don't. I've had both and either is just fine, but I refuse to be made to feel subnormal by complete strangers who obviously only have their sexual preferences in mind. Don't like cut cock ?, fine, don't touch one. Easy really.

 

[Laufey]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Ehhhmmm you can be against violence against children without thinking cut dicks are gross.

 

[justaguy]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Poll progress :
5 cut 16 uncut in the under 30's
37 cut 8 uncut in the over 30's

Yes, it's a small sample. But surely with such a marked difference it indicates a trend!!

 

[Laufey]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Total it's about 2/3 cut and 1/3 uncut. Perhaps because most guys here are from the US.

If I remember correctly 1/3 of men in the world are cut.

 

[HoodedRat]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

If I remember correctly 1/3 of men in the world are cut.

Globally the estimates seem to range from 1/6 to 1/3.

 

[unloadonme]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

When I was at school, circumcised cocks were so rare that when one was spotted in the showers it was pointed out to everyone else as some sort of curiosity!

 

[justaguy]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Here in New Zealand, the ratio was about 70-30 cut up until about the late 70's when circumcision seemed to become less 'fashionable' for infants.

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

RJ1979, perhaps I should have the CDC, WHO, UNAIDS to contact you so you can correct their policies. How can you claim that a circumcised guy don't feel anything? I have plenty of "feeling" in my penis. And if you are uncircumcised how can you claim to know. I usually don't get in these debates, no not debates, arguements. But if circumcising 10 guys or 100 saved one life I would think it was worth it.

Hard-up1, is correct, there is no point in bringing this topic up , it should probably be moved to the entertainment section .

Err, I don't need to do anything as no one is actually circumcising males as a form of HIV prevention.

How can I claim that circumcised men don't feel anything? Well I didn't , I said some. And how do I know this? Because I've heard as much from many cut guys and it's the same for myself and my partner.

How old are you? It may still be sensitive now but the sensitivity decreases with age as the glans keratinises more and more each year and again some guys are affected more than others. No two mutilations could possibly be the same and there are plenty of scarred botch jobs where far too much skin had been removed or the unlucky guy has been left with too much scarring it affects sexual function.

Why circumcise 100 to save 1 when just simple education would save 100 lives with no blood shed? (when it comes to HIV at least)

Should we chop off all body parts that may become diseased in the future, probably not so why do that to the foreskin.

And finally why are boys not allowed the same protection by law that girls recieve? The females equivalent to circumcision is clitoral hood removal. It pretty much serves the same function as the foreskin in males and removing it has the same so called benefits. But if you as a parent wanted it removed for hygiene, cultural or religious reasons the law would stop you and the girl would be protected untill she was 18 and could then choose to have her clitoral hood removed if she wanted.

Again it's all about the $$$$ and not the best interests of the baby boy who has no right to intact genitals.

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

You're both right (and wrong).

Circumcised patients do indeed report some sensation of loss. In fact, medicos sometimes recommend circumcision as an effective method to treat premature ejaculation.

However, no body of evidence exists to suggest that sensitivity of circumcised males decreases with age. I am 50, and represent a sample of only one person, but I can assure you that my sensitivity hasn't changed one iota.

RJ, you'd be able to convince a lot more people if you wouldn't use melodramatic terms such as "butchered" or "mulilated". Those terms belong to the theater, not to science, and frankly they make you sound like Norma Desmond.

Well I've never used the word butchered, but mutilation is entirely accurate. Routine infant circumcision fits the dictionary definition perfectly. And some of the botch jobs can only be described as mutilations. They never call it female circumcision (even harmless clitoral hood removal) it's always Female genital mutilation or FGM in the news. Again why such a double standard for boys. Are we just second rate citizens who don't deserve equal protection like girls.

I guess packaging it as "circumcision" legitimises it as a worthwhile procedure. Therapeutic circumcision for an actual problem is circumcision and worthwhile as a last resort after other treatments fail. Removing it at birth as a matter of course is mutilation.

Yes you are not alone by all means not all cut guys are affected by sensitivity issues especially the guys who were left with plenty of mobile skin. But there is a huge group of men who have reported a decrease over the years my partner and myself included. The amount of skin and nerve endings removed will play a huge part.

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

The thing is RJ is that the word "mutilation" has strongly emotional overtones. It belies any attempt to appear scientific.

I don't think you'll convince the other side of anything if you use that word. They'll just see you as a demogogue.

The point is that no parent would want to mutilate their kids. Which is exactly what they are doing by undertaking RIC

By using correct terminology for non therapeutic circumcision it will hopefully let the parents see through the $$$ motivated bullshit that hospitals spout to new parents. If the word mutilation will make them think twice then it's worth it.

It's only an issue in the US, 95% of boys leave the hospitals whole in the rest of the developed world. Why does the US have to be so different. And are you any better off for it? No, the evidence suggests you're not.

 

[loveguys72]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Unless it's medically necessary or a religious requirement, I can't see a rational basis for routine infant male circumcision.

 

[bankside]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Unless it's medically necessary or a religious requirement, I can't see a rational basis for routine infant male circumcision.

If you want a rational basis, then religious requirements are out too.

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

If you want a rational basis, then religious requirements are out too.

As it happens many Jewsh families are turning their backs on the procedure preferring a more humane ritual where the foreskin is spared.

 

[bankside]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

This statement represents a vast overstatement of the facts.

In fact, after the Wall fell, 1000s of Jews in the former Soviet Bloc went out and got circumcised.

Which, as they were adults, I accept. Sad when a communist dictatorship shows greater respect for the human rights of infants.

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

This statement represents a vast overstatement of the facts.

In fact, after the Wall fell, 1000s of Jews in the former Soviet Bloc went out and got circumcised.

Really?

http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Mon ami, if you feel that way, venting on JUB won't have any effect.

By the same token, calling circumcised men "butchered" or "mutilated" bruises egos, and in the end a slugfest ensues, which turns into a knife fight, and then the Moderators have to come in and bust nuts.

I don't dispute or even disagree with your opinions on circumcision, I merely suggest you practice a little bit of discretion and exercise kindness while on JUB. Calling people "mutilated" or "butchered" doesn't do this, RJ.

Whats the point in sugar coating it. Circumcision, Cut, Cutting, Mutilation. Its all the same when referring to RIC. I can't see why it should be an issue to people if they are happy with the way their penis is circumcised. Then there are those of us who are cut and not pleased. I'm more than happy to refer my own penis as mutilated and less than it could have been. Ignorance isn't bliss in this case.

Anyone here who does feel their penis is less than it could be there is hope to make things better in the form of foreskin restoration. Sexual problems that some circumcised men do experience can be improved and psychological issues to do with ther circ can be healed. Whats the harm in the word mutilation if it helps them come to the realisation that help is out there if they want it.

And again I never called it "butchered" in this thread even once so where does this word keep coming from. Although that term would also be accurate to describe the poor guys who lost all or parts of the penis other than the foreskin because of a botch job by medical professionals.

The real issue is just letting people decide for themselves if they want to have a whole penis or to have a circumcision. Strangely not many people elect to get it done given a choice.

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Oh, I know about the group, RJ. I knew about it years ago.

But what percentage of Jewish people do they represent? Probably less than 1%. Maybe you don't know a lot about Judaism. If not, I must tell you that they must--by the tenets of the faith--get circumcised. They consider it a covenant.

I probably ought to bring in a Jewish guy to explain it to you.

Yeah because that makes it right.

And there are no Jewish men out there who would rather not have had their choice taken away either I suppose.

Are religious circumcisions of women right and acceptable in our society. No so why is it ok to do it to boys?

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

^You're getting hysterical, RJ:

Not in the least. Not in denial about my cock either.

But is that all you can come up with???