Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.

[nycguydowntown]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

If you tried to stop this sick, insane, bullshit practice---there would be a big separation of church and state lawsuit---but the real issue for me is orthodoxy in religion and politics is destroying the world---everywhere you look---after 30 plus years of right wing rule of the Catholic Church--we get a moderate guy full of love and the world goes crazy because it's such a breath of fresh air--a relief from the repressive choke hold of orthodoxy.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

And there you have it. Some would argue that no religions have anything to do with God. It's ultimately all arbitrary, hence the furor.

Are you suggesting an endorsement of the opposite, that if anything is done however marginally as part of a belief in God, then attacking it is wrong?

 

[bankside]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

I take it you approve of the practice of sucking the penises of little boys.

In civilized cultures it's called pedophilia.

I disapprove of the practice on grounds of hygiene. But this has no more to do with pedophilia than applying cream to a baby's diaper rash. It is intimate contact, not erotic contact, and it is wrong for reasons that have nothing to do with pedophilia.

 

[bankside]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

If you tried to stop this sick, insane, bullshit practice---there would be a big separation of church and state lawsuit---but the real issue for me is orthodoxy in religion and politics is destroying the world---everywhere you look---after 30 plus years of right wing rule of the Catholic Church--we get a moderate guy full of love and the world goes crazy because it's such a breath of fresh air--a relief from the repressive choke hold of orthodoxy.

I think there should be a separation of church and state lawsuit anyway, when the state bends laws designed to protect children to privilege a practice on grounds of religion that would otherwise not be accepted. The state can't suspend child protection laws by taking sides with a religion.

 

[Vitamin]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

I disapprove of the practice on grounds of hygiene. But this has no more to do with pedophilia than applying cream to a baby's diaper rash. It is intimate contact, not erotic contact, and it is wrong for reasons that have nothing to do with pedophilia.

My main problem with this practice is while there's obvious other possible motives to applying a medical cream to an infant's genitals, there doesn't seem to be one in this instance. "Tradition" doesn't cut it for me.

I'm going to agree with Jack ( ) on this. It should be considered pedophilia.

 

[bankside]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

You use a cultural system that results in the deaths of many people, both in the manufacture of that product, and in its use. It is a known collateral cost to produce and operate vehicles, EXACTLY the same way these Jewish people endorse a system of circumcision that has known risks of some deaths per 100,000.

This is actually more akin to opposing a ban on distracted driving on grounds of religious freedom. "But officer, I was checking my cellphone in prayerful contemplation! You can't ticket me for that!"

Metzitza b'peh is no more necessary to the practice of circumcision than distracted driving is to the practice of driving a car. The state can identify a concrete risk factor in each situation, and of course it has the authority and the obligation to restrict the dangerous behaviour given the consequences to those innocents around the perpetrator.

 

[Jack Springer]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

I disapprove of the practice on grounds of hygiene. But this has no more to do with pedophilia than applying cream to a baby's diaper rash. It is intimate contact, not erotic contact, and it is wrong for reasons that have nothing to do with pedophilia.

How do you know it's not erotic contact. It's not common practice in jewish religion -- it's a cult type of thing which would make many people think the man is doing it for his 'jollies.'

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

How do you know it's not erotic contact.

How do you know it is? There's no proof or evidence to believe that this sect of Jews elect the town pedophile to this position on purpose so he can "enjoy" performing this ritual. Just like I have no reason to believe that the doctor who swabbed me went to med school just so he could put things up the penises of boys.

 

[Vitamin]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

How do you know it is? There's no proof or evidence to believe that this sect of Jews elect the town pedophile to this position on purpose so he can "enjoy" performing this ritual. Just like I have no reason to believe that the doctor who swabbed me went to med school just so he could put things up the penises of boys.

Unlike "putting things up the penises of boys" as you chose to narrate med school for whatever reason, I'm still waiting for a reasonable motive of this procedure to surface.

 

[Jack Springer]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

How do you know it is? There's no proof or evidence to believe that this sect of Jews elect the town pedophile to this position on purpose so he can "enjoy" performing this ritual. Just like I have no reason to believe that the doctor who swabbed me went to med school just so he could put things up the penises of boys.

I do know it's non-acceptable behavior to suck an infant's penis.

Looks like a duck, acts like a duck, quacks like a duck.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

Unlike "putting things up the penises of boys" as you chose to narrate med school for whatever reason, I'm still waiting for a reasonable motive of this procedure to surface.

While the practice is clearly outdated (as are, incidentally, most of the old testament prohibitions on food that pertained to the inability to safely prepare them in ancient times) it's fairly clear to me that it most likely evolved from trial and error regarding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saliva#Wound_licking. Humans instinctually put a hurt or cut finger into their mouth and likely on the basis of casual observation wounds did better in unhygienic, unsanitary ancient times after being exposed to saliva than if they were totally left alone.

It's no more mysterious than a "commandment" evolving that forbids people to eat pork after they watched some people die of worms or other contamination. They didn't understand the science of what was going on, they worked on the basis of casual correlation.

 

[bankside]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

How do you know it's not erotic contact. It's not common practice in jewish religion -- it's a cult type of thing which would make many people think the man is doing it for his 'jollies.'

You only have to look at the history of it. If you're determined to cut the end off someone's penis without them dying, you have to think about infection control. Before modern knowledge, sucking blood out of any wound, and drawing infectious pathogens introduced by contaminated surgical tools with it, would have a protective effect and would have been a smart thing to do in the day. All of this being before iodine of course.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

I do know it's non-acceptable behavior to suck an infant's penis.

Looks like a duck, acts like a duck, quacks like a duck.

So if a baby was bleeding badly from a wound near the genitals, would you not apply pressure with your hand, Jack? Or would that be pedophilia too?

 

[Vitamin]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

While the practice is clearly outdated (as are, incidentally, most of the old testament prohibitions on food that pertained to the inability to safely prepare them in ancient times) it's fairly clear to me that it most likely evolved from trial and error regarding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saliva#Wound_licking. Humans instinctually put a hurt or cut finger into their mouth and likely on the basis of casual observation wounds did better in unhygienic, unsanitary ancient times after being exposed to saliva than if they were totally left alone.

It's no more mysterious than a "commandment" evolving that forbids people to eat pork after they watched some people die of worms or other contamination. They didn't understand the science of what was going on, they worked on the basis of casual correlation.

Allow me to further elaborate: I'm still waiting for a reasonable motive for our times for this procedure to surface.

Again, this isn't even a common practice in Orthodox Judaism. I'm not seeing a reason for it.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

So if a baby was bleeding badly from a wound near the genitals, would you not apply pressure with your hand, Jack? Or would that be pedophilia too?

Stop bringing logic into this thread, it hurts.

 

[sixthson]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

Unlike "putting things up the penises of boys" as you chose to narrate med school for whatever reason, I'm still waiting for a reasonable motive of this procedure to surface.

It is a man-made religious ritual that has nothing to do with God and there is no reasonable motive for it. People do all kinds of things in the name of God, but it doesn't mean God accepts it or even requires it. In fact, it might be offensive to Him.

Jack, I agree that it is unacceptable and repulsive behavior, but I don't see it as pedophilia.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

Allow me to further elaborate: I'm still waiting for a reasonable motive for our times for this procedure to surface.

Again, this isn't even a common practice in Orthodox Judaism. I'm not seeing a reason for it.

There is no "need" for any religious practice of any kind. Your question could just as easily be applied to Communion or a church marriage. No one would die tomorrow if any of them were abandoned or outlawed.

 

[Vitamin]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

There is no "need" for any religious practice of any kind. Your question could just as easily be applied to Communion or a church marriage.

Now your confusing "motive" for "need". There's no other motive for this outside of pedaphilia these days.

 

[Vitamin]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

It's the same "motive" as for any religious ritual. They believe it's a sacred act between their community and their god. Eating kosher food or refusing to eat pork or shellfish has no more "need/motive" than that in the modern world either. Or 7alal food.

No. Refusing to eat pork or shellfish is not an otherwise illegal act, therefore those choosing to do so have no need to justify their actions to the government or anyone else.

You are basically implying that this is a practice which has been kept for "another, illicit purpose" and while we agree it's (to us) distasteful and any practical use for it is at best obsolete, there is no evidence to believe this ritual was begun or has continued to allow people to molest children in front of their whole community.

If the reason was hygiene as you say then there is no justification for the rituals continuance as better methods have been developed.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite

Now your confusing "motive" for "need". There's no other motive for this outside of pedaphilia these days.

It's the same "motive" as for any religious ritual. They believe it's a sacred act between their community and their god. Eating kosher food or refusing to eat pork or shellfish has no more "need/motive" than that in the modern world either. Or 7alal food.

You are basically implying that this is a practice which has been kept for "another, illicit purpose" and while we agree it's (to us) distasteful and any practical use for it is at best obsolete, there is no evidence to believe this ritual was begun or has continued to allow people to molest children in front of their whole community.