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'Oh! Susanna' songwriter's statue removed from Pittsburgh park after criticism

Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

… I treat your accusations, tirades and hate as a manifestation of frustrated individuals who seek to shift the guilt and blame for their own lack of success to others, rather than to bear responsibility for wallowing in self pity.

I spent years teaching those with far more "formal" education than I have simple things, …

Did your life experience teach you the meaning of myopia?
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

Tell those who can't get a job to crack a book, I always made a good living in a variety of fields.
Tell those who need to bring up race in a gay forum to knock it off. The black culture in America is know by all to be misogynistic and homophobic. I have heard blacks tell gays to "not hitch their cart to the civil rights movement".

If some would grow a pair and man up it would do others a world of good.

The gay culture in America is known by all to be racist.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

@Peeonme,

You're deliberately missing the points. Especially when you attempt to bring up black music as some sort of care you have about misogyny in lyrics.

https://femmagazine.com/expecting-more-male-musicians-problematic-faves-and-complacency/

-And this one looks interesting, I haven't read the book yet.

https://frieze.com/article/guilty-pleasures-female-fans-musics-misogynist-icons
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

I wonder if you would stand in front of a crowd of White women and say to them, you complain too much about men sexually harassing you and the fact that you were raped. And I purposely said WHITE women, since we wouldn't want race to be part of that conversation. So, lets, just for the sake of argument, say that you said that to a group of White women (just so we can ignore the race part-for the moment). What do you think your chances of survival are?
My thought?

You wouldn't get out of the building alive.

Bolded mine.

Considering the music is full of it, I have my doubts. I've also seen those opinions on this board before.

In 'real life', there's a difference; there's always the specter of jail for murder, after all.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

Bolded mine.

Considering the music is full of it, I have my doubts. I've also seen those opinions on this board before.

In 'real life', there's a difference; there's always the specter of jail for murder, after all.

Well, on that point, I agree, and perhaps I was a bit too imprecise there. I should have said, he wouldn't get out of the building in one piece, by which I mean, women would converge on him with the anger of a lynch mob, regardless of whether or not they actually touched him. Or they'd pelt him with fruit, perfume bottles or whatever.... It wouldn't be a peaceful exit for him is the best way to word it.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

Tell those who can't get a job to crack a book, I always made a good living in a variety of fields.
Tell those who need to bring up race in a gay forum to knock it off. The black culture in America is know by all to be misogynistic and homophobic. I have heard blacks tell gays to "not hitch their cart to the civil rights movement".

If some would grow a pair and man up it would do others a world of good.

Why do you need to specify that “black culture” is that way if it isn’t a phenomenon that only exists within their culture? I mean with all the sexual assault cases coming to fruitition there are a lot of white men involved, so this comment seems a bit bizarre.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

I point out once again for the benefit of all the butthurt Foster fans that the City is not saying that they are busting the statue up, melting it down and using it to create a monument to Black Lives Matter. They are going to look for a setting that has a more appropriate context. A lot of these types of statues only need a more appropriate location where the intent and content can be better presented.

So settle folks.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

Why do you need to specify that “black culture” is that way if it isn’t a phenomenon that only exists within their culture? I mean with all the sexual assault cases coming to fruitition there are a lot of white men involved, so this comment seems a bit bizarre.

Seems like it's fine to mention white white white white white white white white white but gosh, I dare mention black and it's wrong?
Does my post speak of sexual assault?
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

Did your life experience teach you the meaning of myopia?

I would see lack of intellectual insight as one who can only view life from one perspective, as in this thread. The attitude of "it's all the white mans fault" does not pay the bills.
Consider other cultures, The Jews are a good example, they might speak of the Holocaust so the world never forgets, but they do not wrap themselves in the cloak of victim hood. They have a culture that believes in true education, being productive and responsibility.

I know and have seen and READ what blacks have faced in the colonies and in America. I really don't care if you think that I am myopic.
The truly myopic people are those who dwell in the past or think that those who don't march in lock step with the snow flakes seem to lack intellect.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

Ah. 'Fraid not. A few people pointing things out in an online forum doesn't hold a vigil's candle to a warm body in a line. Have you never been in the presence of a protest or a picket line? Really?

Albuquerque had them frequently due to the rampant police brutality and murders.


'....Whereas a statue which doesn't actively repress anyone today"

Oooooh, mistaken again. What do you think it does to, say, a kid's self-esteem to see a particularly false representation of reality that does considerably more than gesture to an 'overall beneficence of slavery' in a place of honor? History is 'living'; it doesn't tend to die with the individual despite humanity loving to pretend otherwise.

Contrivance much? A kid passing that statue wouldn't have identified with it at all. It's a caricature, and the musician is enjoying himself. It hardly implies the black man will never be anything more than a minstrel singer. Fuck. We live in an era in which blacks work in government at all levels, are represented in all media and entertainment, and admitted to every university out there. When I left teaching in 1986, I went to work on a factory production line, and was paid MORE than my teaching job, alongside blacks and whites, and they largely hadn't even finished high school with decent grades. And that was the deep south.

Poor people pull out of poverty slowly. There were plenty of poor whites working exactly the same jobs, making exactly the same wages. In that small town, people with money live in nice neighborhoods, and the poor live in lesser neighborhoods, of any race. It's economic.

Is the playing field level for blacks in the U.S.? Or Europe? Or Israel? Or the Levant? Or China? No, but it's not the only factor.

I think it’s funny that people are basically claiming that it’s no big deal about a statue but are making a big deal about people having a problem with it.


Hmm.

I did post that it can go away with no impact. It isn't any shrine to dem good ole days for anyone I can imagine. It was a tribute to music of that era.

My objection is that the removal is a tit for tat in the culture wars, and it is falsely promoted as a healing or restorative action, when it is little more than a pointless casualty in the war of words.

There won't be a black kid who goes home and doesn't cry because his world is more fair than the days when the statue was there. There won't be a black kid who believes his world is more accepting because of it.

Instead, it will just foment more friction between the small population of whites who believe blacks are just out to shove them aside, and among the small population of blacks who believe the whites are hoping to get back to the days of The Help.

Sensible people of both races know better. The debate over statues is a proxy for meaningful change. It's more like what Congress does instead of consider actual reform.

Foster's statue can be melted down. It won't affect his music's popularity a whit. It's bygone folk music, so not a part of the mainstream anyway. But it won't help race relations or justice in America, only the opposite.

Raising MLK's statue, even if a lousy likeness, was a great moment for the country. These tiffs over monuments are detours and if they spread to attack things like the Jefferson Memorial, it will be a major mistake strategically. But it won't, as this is only about skirmishes. The breeches painters don't have the temerity to defame the Jefferson Memorial.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

Seems like it's fine to mention white white white white white white white white white but gosh, I dare mention black and it's wrong?
Does my post speak of sexual assault?

People don’t mention white people as if they are the only ones capable of racism, but what you said does imply that. Maybe you should stop taking this as a pissing contest and try to understand what someone is actually saying?
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

For the record, I deplore the whole genre and tradition of minstrel shows. And to be clear, they were a national phenomenon, by not means in the South only. I sometimes wonder if drag shows might someday be seen in the same disdain, as they were long the depiction of gays and acted as proxies in society that did not accept gay men to be mainstream.

That aside, the minstrel shows were indeed every bit as degrading and racist as anyone accuses them of being. They were identical to shows that use a fat person as the butt of the joke, or a fey gay, or a dumb blonde. Their function was to reinforce prejudices.

BUT, just like Sir Isaac Newton was a scurrilous person, and Theodore Geisel a cruel bastard in his own home, artists deserve to be remembered ultimately for their art. Michael Jackson's music survives in spite of his inane bleaching and arrested development/pedophilia. Dr. Seuss is praised above Gandhi and MLK. For it is their work that has survived them, not their personalities.

And for that, Foster will survive, in spite of his living in an era of the minstrel shows, as he wrote folk music of all sorts, not just horrible and denigrating stuff like O, Susanna!

If anyone doubts the vile nature of O, Susanna, the link here removes all doubt: https://www.shmoop.com/oh-susanna/meaning.html

But, it isn't all he wrote. He didn't gas any Jews. He didn't beat a slave to death. He depicted stereotypes. And it was the era. Who knows what he would be today, but he isn't alive today, only his music. Henry Ford published horrible anti-Semitic propaganda, but the name is still on the cars today.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

People don’t mention white people as if they are the only ones capable of racism, but what you said does imply that. Maybe you should stop taking this as a pissing contest and try to understand what someone is actually saying?

Actually, that is not so. There have been numerous arguments on JUB about exactly that topic. Whether Fab or RB actively argue it today or not, XbuzzerX and others certainly did and do purport that it isn't possible for a minority to be racist, as they literally redefined racism away from acting in prejudicial and biased discriminatory manner, to being only the institutional repression of minorities. That's really redefining the issue, and in a way that turns it into a unidirectional issue. It's not.

I lived in Albuquerque. If you don't think there can be a Latino prejudice, or Black, or other, in government, business, or society, you're not paying attention.

I'm in favor of working toward Dr. King's dream, of a multicolored society where our children do grow up as friends, not where minority children are indoctrinated to ensure they never get a fair break from whitey nor ever will. And a lot of the rhetoric of today's culture wars does exactly that.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

People don’t mention white people as if they are the only ones capable of racism, but what you said does imply that. Maybe you should stop taking this as a pissing contest and try to understand what someone is actually saying?

Get real, the majority are the only people that can practice racism.

" Maybe you should stop taking this as a pissing contest and try to understand what someone is actually saying?"

read the title of the thread: Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

It's the op taking a swipe at "the whites".
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

Get real, the majority are the only people that can practice racism.

" Maybe you should stop taking this as a pissing contest and try to understand what someone is actually saying?"

read the title of the thread: Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

It's the op taking a swipe at "the whites".

I take it him making a swipe at white racists, not at all whites. Even though the thread title is a general statement.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

Actually, that is not so. There have been numerous arguments on JUB about exactly that topic. Whether Fab or RB actively argue it today or not, XbuzzerX and others certainly did and do purport that it isn't possible for a minority to be racist, as they literally redefined racism away from acting in prejudicial and biased discriminatory manner, to being only the institutional repression of minorities. That's really redefining the issue, and in a way that turns it into a unidirectional issue. It's not.

I lived in Albuquerque. If you don't think there can be a Latino prejudice, or Black, or other, in government, business, or society, you're not paying attention.

I'm in favor of working toward Dr. King's dream, of a multicolored society where our children do grow up as friends, not where minority children are indoctrinated to ensure they never get a fair break from whitey nor ever will. And a lot of the rhetoric of today's culture wars does exactly that.

Of all the members you mention I don’t recall them ever pushing that idea and they were all members I actually generally follow their posts, I could be wrong but I’ve never seen that from those particular posters.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

People don’t mention white people as if they are the only ones capable of racism, but what you said does imply that. Maybe you should stop taking this as a pissing contest and try to understand what someone is actually saying?

I would add, that I think anyone can be racist, but not not all are in a position to "practice" racism. The majority have the ability to practice racism through employment, schooling, housing and in law enforcement.
Minorities may well be prejudicial and racist, but aren't in a position to use their racism as a means to oppress those that they are against.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

I take it him making a swipe at white racists, not at all whites. Even though the thread title is a general statement.

He is an intelligent person, he knows full well that he paints with a broad brush.
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

...I treat your accusations, tirades and hate as a manifestation of frustrated individuals who seek to shift the guilt and blame for their own lack of success to others, rather than to bear responsibility for wallowing in self pity.
This seems like a really uncharitable characterization of the Black community and it seems like a lot of baggage to have lying at the back of your mind when entering these conversations.

Would you be interested in investigating how well grounded your opinion is in a respectful environment?
If so, consider presenting your view in the subreddit ChangeMyView. I think it'd be worth your while to hash some of this out without some of the baggage you have dealing with the subject here.

Here's the link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/
 
Re: A statue- complete with banjo-pickin slave, honoring a racist songwriter was taken down and white people are calling it reverse racism

Wait, didn't Peeonme state that he attributed it to individuals, not to the "Black community"? He went out of his way to make it clear he wasn't condemning Blacks as a group.

Are you doing a straw man thing here, claiming Peeonme has just denigrated all blacks instead of the drummer with the favorite beat?

Reading Peeonme's post history shows clearly that he doesn't criticize or attack Blacks as a community.
 
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