"Palin is Hillary's Gift to Obama"

[MystikWizard]

Pretty good editorial covering Palin being used to set up a McCain victory in 2008, so that Hillary can run again in 2012. The author speculates that this is why Hillary is not attacking Palin, or barely mentioning her on the campaign trail.

My only question is that if it is perceived that Hillary's supporters cost Obama the election in 2008, what guarantees does anyone have that history won't repeat itself in 2012, if this is the game plan from the Clinton camp? Bill Clinton said that a Clinton/Obama ticket "would be unbeatable", so clearly he feels that the supporters of both candidates is enough to beat the Republicans. Therefore, using this mentality (which is pretty common sense), if the Democratic ticket loses, it will be the fault of enough percentage of Clinton supporters, estimated at 15%-30%.

So for the Clinton supporters who are in fact voting Republican this year, in hopes that this will transpire in 2012, I'd appreciate your thoughts on if you are doing this out of spite and revenge to have Clinton run in 2012, why do you think Obama supporters won't reciprocate and show the same discourtesy that you are showing? And what guarantees, furthermore, do you have that Clinton will make it past the primaries in 2012?


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09palin_is_hillarys_gift_to_obam.html

 

[jackoroe]

Very good points. midnight. It seems far fetched, but not when you consider the Clintons lust for power, it isn't out of the realm of possibility. It's a longshot for sure. Too much could go wrong, between 2008 and 2012. MCcain might even be re-elected to finish a second term at 80 years old, then what does Clinton do, wait until 2016 when she would be close to McCain's age now?

I'm thinking the Clinton era is now passed, and they've torpedoed their own party's nominee in their relentless quest for power.

 

[NickCole]

I'll vote this year based upon the candidates this year and what I think each would or would not accomplish as President and Vice President.

Hillary does not figure into my decision one way or the other.

But if Obama loses, no doubt many Obama supporters will blame the Clintons. Obama and his supporters have never been prone to accept responsibility for themselves.

 

[JOUPER]

I am concerned with getting Senator McCain in the White house and introducing Sarah Palin to Washington,she will shake things up!

 

[MystikWizard]

I'll vote this year based upon the candidates this year and what I think each would or would not accomplish as President and Vice President.

Hillary does not figure into my decision one way or the other.

But if Obama loses, no doubt many Obama supporters will blame the Clintons. Obama and his supporters have never been prone to accept responsibility for themselves.

I only go back to Bill Clinton's own words, saying that if Hillary and Barack were on the same ticket, that they would be "unbeatable". It's clearly not the Obama supporters who are ceasing their support for Obama, Nick. That only leaves the portion of voters who supported Clinton during the Primaries, that are now crossing sides to vote for McCain. It's not hard to see why the Obama supporters would blame that fraction of Clinton supporters for this.

 

[Lostlover]

That link ain't working Midnight. Can you repost it?

 

[MystikWizard]

Let's try this again.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/palin_is_hillarys_gift_to_obam.html

 

[JOUPER]

I only go back to Bill Clinton's own words, saying that if Hillary and Barack were on the same ticket, that they would be "unbeatable". It's clearly not the Obama supporters who are ceasing their support for Obama, Nick. That only leaves the portion of voters who supported Clinton during the Primaries, that are now crossing sides to vote for McCain. It's not hard to see why the Obama supporters would blame that fraction of Clinton supporters for this.

We McCain/Clinton supporters take this election just as seriously as you do and we will do what we think is best for the country we love and defend.Again I tell you this has nothing to do with you,we want nor expect nothing from you.Please try to understand we love our country just as much as you and would never make our votes about spite.

 

[NickCole]

I only go back to Bill Clinton's own words, saying that if Hillary and Barack were on the same ticket, that they would be "unbeatable".

He was right.

If the ticket today were Obama/Clinton, they'd be wiping the floor with John McCain.

But Obama was too small a man to do that.

It's clearly not the Obama supporters who are ceasing their support for Obama, Nick.That only leaves the portion of voters who supported Clinton during the Primaries, that are now crossing sides to vote for McCain. It's not hard to see why the Obama supporters would blame that fraction of Clinton supporters for this.

Obama supporters have all along been nasty and corrosive towards Democrats who don't support Obama. That was half the Democratic Party during the primaries. That behavior has an effect on the Party. And they never altered that behavior. If Obama doesn't win, it's the fault of Obama, his campaign, his supporters. It's his responsibility and the responsibility of his campaign and supporters to convince voters to vote for him. It's not the Clinton's responsibility -- even though they both are doing everything Obama asks them to do.

Your link didn't open so I didn't read the piece, but this thread is only more proof of how small and divisive Obama Democrats are. You're obsessed with Hillary Clinton, and as I said way back at the end of the primaries, if Obama loses the election people like you will blame the Clintons and Democrats and Independents who were not convinced Obama would be the better President, rather than blaming Obama for failing to win those votes.

 

[MystikWizard]

We McCain/Clinton supporters take this election just as seriously as you do and we will do what we think is best for the country we love and defend.Again I tell you this has nothing to do with you,we want nor expect nothing from you.Please try to understand we love our country just as much as you and would never make our votes about spite.

So if you agreed with Hillary's policies and political views, why are you supporting McCain, Jouper? I can't really seem to get a clear answer out of you guys who are jumping ship.

For example, if you are Pro Choice and supported Clinton, why would you vote for someone who feels Roe v Wade should be overturned?

Until I can get some real substantive answers from people like you, I really have no choice but to deduct you are voting for McCain out of spite. Do policies not mean anything to you?

 

[MystikWizard]

He was right.

If the ticket today were Obama/Clinton, they'd be wiping the floor with John McCain.

But Obama was too small a man to do that.

Obama supporters have all along been nasty and corrosive towards Democrats who don't support Obama. That was half the Democratic Party during the primaries. That behavior has an effect on the Party. And they never altered that behavior. If Obama doesn't win, it's the fault of Obama, his campaign, his supporters. It's his responsibility and the responsibility of his campaign and supporters to convince voters to vote for him. It's not the Clinton's responsibility -- even though they both are doing everything Obama asks them to do.

Your link didn't open so I didn't read the piece, but this thread is only more proof of how small and divisive Obama Democrats are. You're obsessed with Hillary Clinton, and as I said way back at the end of the primaries, if Obama loses the election people like you will blame the Clintons and Democrats and Independents who were not convinced Obama would be the better President, rather than blaming Obama for failing to win those votes.

First of all, I reposted the link.

Secondly, you sir, are the one obsessed with Obama supporters being "nasty and divisive" in your own words. That is the topic of every other one of your posts. So it isn't hard to see why we keep harping on it, because people like you keep flooding the board with your continued "nasty and divisive rhetoric".

Are you telling me with a straight face that Clinton supporters never attacked Obama supporters and that it was all Obama supporters who were allegedly "divisive". Obama supporters clearly recognized early on that Gender was a factor for why many Clinton supporters were voting for her, and for that, there were charges of Feminism ... because that is a silly notion to vote for someone. I certainly don't see Obama going out there talking about "breaking the glass ceiling for African Americans" do you? Obama did the smart thing by not making this election about race, but as Lost said, the same can't be said for Hillary who did make this election about gender, and in doing so, preyed on the emotions of Women (and Gay Guys) all over the country.

But it's called having a Primary. Again, something you can't seem to respect, since you would rather have had a coronation. So what do you when you don't get your way? People like you say that Obama needs to "earn your vote", but evidently McCain doesn't have to "earn your votes". Rather, it is automatic, because your candidate lost, and you can't respect the rules. You and others like Jouper, will absolutely not post your reasons for voting for McCain in his thread ... which he has given several invitations for. Very telling.

And with that being said, I have to go. I'll be back on the board later to answer any more allegations you have.

 

[mrrobbie]

Why vote for and old man & the wandering Pussy?

 

[Supernature]

So if you agreed with Hillary's policies and political views, why are you supporting McCain, Jouper? I can't really seem to get a clear answer out of you guys who are jumping ship.

For example, if you are Pro Choice and supported Clinton, why would you vote for someone who feels Roe v Wade should be overturned?

Until I can get some real substantive answers from people like you, I really have no choice but to deduct you are voting for McCain out of spite. Do policies not mean anything to you?

I'm inclined to the same conclusion, but, to be fair, Clinton did make common cause with McCain during the Primary and often elevated McCain over her Democratic rival. It's not so illogical then that a faction of her supporters would still be following that meme. Still, that's all water under the bridge. I'm convinced those former Hillary supporters who are now voting for McCain are voters who (for whatever personal reason) would never have voted for Obama.

 

[MystikWizard]

I'm inclined to the same conclusion, but, to be fair, Clinton did make common cause with McCain during the Primary and often elevated McCain over her Democratic rival. It's not so illogical then that a faction of her supporters would still be following that meme. Still, that's all water under the bridge. I'm convinced those former Hillary supporters who are now voting for McCain are voters who (for whatever personal reason) would never have voted for Obama.

And in doing so, they have proven themselves that they are NOT voters who vote based on the Issues, but rather Personalities. Welcome to Election Idol 2008. Sad and pathetic.

With that being said, I am out of here.

 

[Lostlover]

Let's try this again.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/palin_is_hillarys_gift_to_obam.html

LMAO. What are people commenting on if they're not even reading the link?

What you see here is a bunch of wounded egos who are lashing at out anyone. Instead of being adults and maybe reading the articles, they're just projecting hurt feelings.

What more can you expect from those Clintonites?

 

[iman]

Palin is attractive to voters not because of her sex or ideology, but rather because people identify with her, particulary working class women. Hillary had the same ability to connect with these folks and Obama does not, that is not Hillary Clintons fault, it is her prime asset. Only Obama supporters could blame Hillary for possessing assets that Obama lacks.

The piece is just silly. Toby Harnden blames Clinton for Obama not picking another woman and blames Clinton's "looming presence" for Obama "playing it safe" in his VP pick.

To paraphrase Midnight: Obama won the primary and made the decisions - accept it.

And while your at it, accept the fact that Obama and Axelrod are running a lousy campaign and Obama has only diminished himself by petty attacks on Palin and McCain instead of offering a sweeping alternative to McCain and the Republican establishment. Clinton will not, and would not have made that mistake.

 

[future_boy]

C'mon you guys,stop this bickering about Obama vs Clinton. Use this time wisely to elect Obama into White House

(this is from me who supported Hillary from far away LOL)

 

[Lostlover]

C'mon you guys,stop this bickering about Obama vs Clinton. Use this time wisely to elect Obama into White House

(this is from me who supported Hillary from far away LOL)

You're from Indonesia?

I'd imagine you'd support a former Indonesian resident in Obama before Hillary?

 

[Glafna]

But if Obama loses, no doubt many Obama supporters will blame the Clintons. Obama and his supporters have never been prone to accept responsibility for themselves.

Let me just refer the voters back to the many.. many... threads you and others posted bashing Obama, and the smear campaigns launched by the Clinton campaign to discredit Obama.

 

[Glafna]

If Obama isn't elected it won't be the fault of Hillary Clinton or her supporters (most of which has already jumped on board with Obama). The only person that can truly be blamed is Obama himself and those that are obsessed with this relentless media hyped storyline of the "Hillary Supporters".

The Clintons are doing exactly what they should be doing. They are towing the party line and trying to get their party into the White House. It's not Hillary Clinton's job to attack Palin. She is not the VP. It's Biden's job to attack Palin, he's the VP, not Clinton.

Obama made that choice.

Hillary Clinton doesn't need to go for the throat of Palin. She just has to stress to the voting public the negatives and the dangers of John McCain. Palin is doing enough damage to herself without having to have the entire democrat establishment gunning for her.

Hillary is best used talking policy, future and the dangers of Republicans.

Why isn't anybody crying about Biden being a total pussy? Hillary Clinton has given Obama virtually all her "A" players. They have been telling him to fight back and fight back hard. They talked about it last night on Bill Maher. Obama loses, he loses it for himself.

Article -


So it's Hillary Clinton that is to blame for picking Biden. It has nothing to do with wanting to strengthen his foreign policy weakness? Okie Dokie.

I can't believe we're still focusing on things like this, this fake bickering, instead of getting Obama into the White house.

-Jacob

Very well put. I honestly believe that the most terrifying thing is that Palin has a likely chance of becoming President in the case of McCain's death, due to either outside or age-related sources.