"Palin is Hillary's Gift to Obama"

[Glafna]

C'mon you guys,stop this bickering about Obama vs Clinton. Use this time wisely to elect Obama into White House

(this is from me who supported Hillary from far away LOL)

Now, isn't this what I've been arguing for a while(even though I support Obama)

 

[Just_Believe18]

Somebody post a thread about something Bush did. I can't take this anymore!

 

[andysayshi]

If Obama isn't elected it won't be the fault of Hillary Clinton or her supporters (most of which has already jumped on board with Obama). The only person that can truly be blamed is Obama himself and those that are obsessed with this relentless media hyped storyline of the "Hillary Supporters".

The Clintons are doing exactly what they should be doing. They are towing the party line and trying to get their party into the White House. It's not Hillary Clinton's job to attack Palin. She is not the VP. It's Biden's job to attack Palin, he's the VP, not Clinton.

Obama made that choice.

Hillary Clinton doesn't need to go for the throat of Palin. She just has to stress to the voting public the negatives and the dangers of John McCain. Palin is doing enough damage to herself without having to have the entire democrat establishment gunning for her.

Hillary is best used talking policy, future and the dangers of Republicans.

Why isn't anybody crying about Biden being a total pussy? Hillary Clinton has given Obama virtually all her "A" players. They have been telling him to fight back and fight back hard. They talked about it last night on Bill Maher. Obama loses, he loses it for himself.

Article -


So it's Hillary Clinton that is to blame for picking Biden. It has nothing to do with wanting to strengthen his foreign policy weakness? Okie Dokie.

I can't believe we're still focusing on things like this, this fake bickering, instead of getting Obama into the White house.

-Jacob

Great post. This kind of hypothetical discussion is just wasted energy, when the REAL focus should be winning the election.

 

[chance1]

Palin is attractive to voters not because of her sex or ideology, but rather because people identify with her, particulary working class women. Hillary had the same ability to connect with these folks and Obama does not, that is not Hillary Clintons fault, it is her prime asset. Only Obama supporters could blame Hillary for possessing assets that Obama lacks.

The piece is just silly. Toby Harnden blames Clinton for Obama not picking another woman and blames Clinton's "looming presence" for Obama "playing it safe" in his VP pick.

To paraphrase Midnight: Obama won the primary and made the decisions - accept it.

And while your at it, accept the fact that Obama and Axelrod are running a lousy campaign and Obama has only diminished himself by petty attacks on Palin and McCain instead of offering a sweeping alternative to McCain and the Republican establishment. Clinton will not, and would not have made that mistake.

ur on a roll iman - keep it up

Palin is ONLY effective because BO wasn't man enough or smart enough to have Hillary as his running mate

period

BO's choice NOT to have Hillary

his choice - his right - but now that this is happening, one cannot blame the person who was NOT chosen - that is on BO

as for the lousy campaign waged by BO in the genl - soooooo obvious - McCain was floundering and made changes in his campaign bout 2 mos ago - might be time for BO to do the same - as his message is lost - he is on defense - and he quite frankly he's not the man he was in the primaries - and its very obvious

iman gets trashed by the JUBbernutters for being a "clintonite" - love that - if he points out obama mistakes, he's bitter for losing - can't be that he has good points to make

so silly really

BO lovers want everyone to love BO with no conditions

and if u don't ............................

hehe

 

[NickCole]

Let me just refer the voters back to the many.. many... threads you and others posted bashing Obama, and the smear campaigns launched by the Clinton campaign to discredit Obama.

It's becoming clear we may never agree about this.

But if the rift in the Democratic Party isn't healed, no matter who's responsible, the winners will be Republicans and their agenda.

 

[Sammie13]

ur on a roll iman - keep it up

Palin is ONLY effective because BO wasn't man enough or smart enough to have Hillary as his running mate

period

BO's choice NOT to have Hillary

his choice - his right - but now that this is happening, one cannot blame the person who was NOT chosen - that is on BO

as for the lousy campaign waged by BO in the genl - soooooo obvious - McCain was floundering and made changes in his campaign bout 2 mos ago - might be time for BO to do the same - as his message is lost - he is on defense - and he quite frankly he's not the man he was in the primaries - and its very obvious

iman gets trashed by the JUBbernutters for being a "clintonite" - love that - if he points out obama mistakes, he's bitter for losing - can't be that he has good points to make

so silly really

BO lovers want everyone to love BO with no conditions

and if u don't ............................

hehe

I'm an Obama voter, but I agree with everything you wrote here Chance, esp. the bolded part (hey, I know you prefer to read 'you're an idiot' postings and other inflammatory rhetoric, but not happening here).

If Obama loses this election, NOT choosing Hillary will go done as one of the all-time biggest political blunders in US history. And it's due primarily to his arrogance in a) thinking he had this election won; b)dissing her historic run and 18 million voters; and c) his lack of guts....he didn't want to pick someone whom he either did not personally like or feared would upstage him or both. I think most McCain supporters have always viewed and judged their candidate with eyes wide open (he has a lot of warts) and a dose of healthy skepticism, but many of the Obama flock idealism him in some unrealistic and frightening manner as if to judge him with any cast of suspicion makes you 'stupid' as I've seen written here so often.

 

[TierraSimms]

ur on a roll iman - keep it up

Palin is ONLY effective because BO wasn't man enough or smart enough to have Hillary as his running mate

period

BO's choice NOT to have Hillary

his choice - his right - but now that this is happening, one cannot blame the person who was NOT chosen - that is on BO

as for the lousy campaign waged by BO in the genl - soooooo obvious - McCain was floundering and made changes in his campaign bout 2 mos ago - might be time for BO to do the same - as his message is lost - he is on defense - and he quite frankly he's not the man he was in the primaries - and its very obvious

iman gets trashed by the JUBbernutters for being a "clintonite" - love that - if he points out obama mistakes, he's bitter for losing - can't be that he has good points to make

so silly really

BO lovers want everyone to love BO with no conditions

and if u don't ............................

hehe

Wow B, I gotta give up to you for being the biggest panderer of them all on this board. "BO", wow, wow, wow. How about calling Obama by his name instead of BO?

 

[chuck10x]

The primary race is over.
Obama beat Hillary in delegates.
The race is now who will be president?
Obama's message beat Hillary among DEMOCRATIC voters.
The race is now Democrat vs. Republican.
It is a new and different playing field and his campaign has not adjusted it's strategies to beat McCain.
Yet, it is Hillary's fault that he is dropping in the polls?
Obama chose a weak V.P.
Hillary with all her faults was the best choice and would have delivered the majority of her 18 million voters.
As it is now, Obama has to convince the public to vote for him.
He is not doing it, The strategy that worked against Hillary is not working on McCain/Palin.
Obama has not adjusted his campaign and it is costing him and yet all I seem to hear is- ( It's all Hillary's fault).
This is a defeatist's attitude.

 

[TierraSimms]

IMO, I don't think Obama being affected by the Clintons. Rather he is dealing with the politics of personality which anybody in their right mind don't waste their times trying to compete in. On the note, the Clinton supporters that say they are supporting McCain now are voting based on that very platform, personality. By far Biden is not a weak VP choice, rather that is Palin because all better yet most WHITE PEOPLE are doing is being a fasicnated by how pretty she is and she is a woman.

Hell, they are the main ones on this board whining about irrelevent bullshit. Yet, don't want to discuss the issues that affect all of us like the economy, energy crisis, and foreign policy. I've yet to hear any McCain supporter debate why McCain doesn't support Equal Pay Act that would help women, why he has really discuss his foreign policy, how he is going to fix this economy, etc. OH YEAH, that's right because all this is about is PERSONALITY.

 

[iman]

What is particulary sad is that Had Clinton been nominated she would almost assuredly picked Obama as the VP, to capture the votes, the money and energy of his supporters. The election of a Clinton/Obama ticket could have ushered in a long period of progressive Democratic rule. As it now stands, the McCain/Palin ticket may usher in a long period of conservative Republican rule.

Do I sound bitter? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!

 

[future_boy]

You're from Indonesia?

I'd imagine you'd support a former Indonesian resident in Obama before Hillary?

Although Obama had an education in Indonesia and people in here swooning over him,me and lot of my friends backed Hillary Clinton in Primaries. Now we're supporting Obama for the presidency. It's clear cut decision here,I can't imagine people switching from Hillary to McCain.It's stupid!!

 

[JOUPER]

The primary race is over.
Obama beat Hillary in delegates.
The race is now who will be president?
Obama's message beat Hillary among DEMOCRATIC voters.
The race is now Democrat vs. Republican.
It is a new and different playing field and his campaign has not adjusted it's strategies to beat McCain.
Yet, it is Hillary's fault that he is dropping in the polls?
Obama chose a weak V.P.
Hillary with all her faults was the best choice and would have delivered the majority of her 18 million voters.
As it is now, Obama has to convince the public to vote for him.
He is not doing it, The strategy that worked against Hillary is not working on McCain/Palin.
Obama has not adjusted his campaign and it is costing him and yet all I seem to hear is- ( It's all Hillary's fault).
This is a defeatist's attitude.

I think it's for the best that Obama didn't pick Hillary,let him work for her supporters,and if he wins I think the task will make him a better President!

 

[chuck10x]

I think it's for the best that Obama didn't pick Hillary,let him work for her supporters,and if he wins I think the task will make him a better President!

I agree with you.
I would rather see Hillary as majority leader.
What some people don't get is that Some of her supporters just don't like Obama and would never vote for him.
There are a lot of racist people out there who will not for a black president and they are not just Hillary supporters.
The problems in Obama's campaign can not just be lumped into 1 category, (Hillary Clinton).
The strategy Obama used to get the Democratic nomination, Just does not work against the Republicans and he needs to adjust or he will lose.

 

[MystikWizard]

What is particulary sad is that Had Clinton been nominated she would almost assuredly picked Obama as the VP, to capture the votes, the money and energy of his supporters. The election of a Clinton/Obama ticket could have ushered in a long period of progressive Democratic rule. As it now stands, the McCain/Palin ticket may usher in a long period of conservative Republican rule.

Do I sound bitter? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!

I will agree that Clinton would have likely picked Obama, and we would be seeing the exact same scenario you described.

I recognize Obama's message/theme as Change from the "Politics of Old", however in executing this theme, he severely underestimated how many people did not necessarily want to depart from the Politics of Old.

I respect him for going with principle, but tactically, he should have selected Clinton and appeased her supporters. In the end, I think his supporters would have griped about it, but would have went along with it.

I also don't know how much the attack ads from the Republicans would have actually resonated even with these 2 on the same ticket.

Most of his Obama's own supporters who I see online away from JUB realize that it was a tactically unwise decision not to select Rodham and already realize how much it has hurt him, amongst her core. I don't respect what her supporters are doing, as you would have unquestionably had the support from the Obama camp if she was the nominee, but to alleviate this mess, he should have bit the bullet and pandered to them.

 

[lostnfound]

I just quickly skimmed through this thread (don't have much time).

I don't understand how people can say that if McCain wins, it will be Hillary's fault. She has done everything that the DNC and Obama have asked her to do and she definitely gave 110% in her speech at the convention. She's still campaigning in battleground states. She's one of Obama's most active surrogates.

 

[MystikWizard]

I just quickly skimmed through this thread (don't have much time).

I don't understand how people can say that if McCain wins, it will be Hillary's fault. She has done everything that the DNC and Obama have asked her to do and she definitely gave 110% in her speech at the convention. She's still campaigning in battleground states. She's one of Obama's most active surrogates.

More so than Hillary, it would actually be the estimated 15-30% of her so-called supporters ... who are going against her wishes, and are voting for McCain, who would be the true ones to blame.

EDIT: Kind of like the person below me. People like this have been invited to go into ICO's thread and elaborate why they are abandoning their Democratic principles and are voting for McCain, instead of supporting the Democratic nominee. They say it isn't out of spite, but they absolutely will not go into that thread and post their reasons for doing so. Very telling.

 

[JOUPER]

I just quickly skimmed through this thread (don't have much time).

I don't understand how people can say that if McCain wins, it will be Hillary's fault. She has done everything that the DNC and Obama have asked her to do and she definitely gave 110% in her speech at the convention. She's still campaigning in battleground states. She's one of Obama's most active surrogates.

That's right,it's not Senator Clinton's job to be attic dog.Obama supporters seem to think it's Hillary's job to recruit us,drive us to vote and buy us lunch.TALK ABOUT ENTITLEMENT!!!

 

[NickCole]

More so than Hillary, it would actually be the estimated 15-30% of her so-called supporters ... who are going against her wishes, and are voting for McCain, who would be the true ones to blame.

If Obama loses, he is to blame. It's his responsibility, it's up to him to earn his votes.

Failing to understand this is a huge problem with Obama and his supporters. If it doesn't change it's going to solidify the divide in the Democratic Party that began during the primaries.

 

[MystikWizard]

If Obama loses, he is to blame. It's his responsibility, it's up to him to earn his votes.

Failing to understand this is a huge problem with Obama and his supporters. If it doesn't change it's going to solidify the divide in the Democratic Party that began during the primaries.

Nick, it is almost impossible to rationalize with irrational people.

Like I said above, I wanted to gain better insight into why someone who supported Hillary is deciding to abandon their Democratic principles to vote for McCain, and fully support ICO creating that thread so anyone who was jumping ship could better define their reasons for doing so. That way, we can get a better understanding of their point of view.

However, NOT ONE person is willing to do it on here. Not one. That is showing me that these are not "Issues" voters we are looking at. Rather, it is "Personality" voters, who treat Presidential elections like the Finals to American Idol.

 

[MLSFreak]

Since Obama's and Hillary's agendas on all issues are about 95% identical, what exactly is Obama supposed to do to "Earn" someone's vote? If you supported Hillary then it seems logical to support Obama, that is if you are voting on issues. If you are not voting on issues then what exactly do you expect Obama to do in order to "Earn" your vote? I'm very curious about this. Many people have thrown that phrase around ("Earn my vote"). You can't expect someone to "earn your vote" when no matter what this man does, you'll always belittle him. So spare us in saying that Obama has to "earn votes". It's silly, and please don't refer to this group of hillary supporters who do not support Obama as "democrats". Party affiliations are made on the basis of Issues. Therefore if you don't support Obama and his Clear Democratic agenda when compared to McCain, then you are not a democrat (leftist, moderate, reagan, etc). Not sure what you are, but not a democrat. So, if you don't mind, lets stay out of the way of progress, and let the "Real Democrats" help Obama become our next President of the United States.
Thanks,