president Obama and transgender bathroom controversy

[Benvolio]

Will you support this logic when a nonwhite majority passes legislation which persecutes white Americans in direct violation of their basic Constitutional rights as citizens?

The question is rhetorical, since none of us are in doubt of your answer.

Your willingness to delete the consideration of the rights of the minority is entirely subjective around your personal ideology.

The problem is that everything a tiny minority wants is claimed by the democrats to be a "basic constitutional right". Here you claim that the wish of men to hang around the women's dressing rooms, toilets and showers is a "basic constitutional right", and of course, the women who would like some privacy have no rights al all because they are majority.

 

[Kabluey]

So, what's new. I challenge you to review your responses to me and try to find one in which you did not insult me. You are incapable of intelligent discussion. And yes, you lied.

Keep dog whistling.
Coward.

 

[Benvolio]

Keep dog whistling.
Coward.

You could not find one response by you without an insult.

 

[xbuzzerx]

The problem is that everything a tiny minority wants is claimed by the democrats to be a "basic constitutional right". Here you claim that the wish of men to hang around the women's dressing rooms, toilets and showers is a "basic constitutional right", and of course, the women who would like some privacy have no rights al all because they are majority.

No, the right of women who identify as women to use public restrooms.

Again, your failure and obtuse refusal to refer to them as anything other than "men who want to be in the girls' showers" is your problem. It is not a valid reason to withhold legal rights from other citizens. The exact same ignorant logic would bar gay people from any work or even any public space sharing with children on the grounds that ignorant right-wing nutjobs like you connotate them as all being pedophiles.

 

[Benvolio]

No, the right of women who identify as women to use public restrooms.

Again, your failure and obtuse refusal to refer to them as anything other than "men who want to be in the girls' showers" is your problem. It is not a valid reason to withhold legal rights from other citizens. The exact same ignorant logic would bar gay people from any work or even any public space sharing with children on the grounds that ignorant right-wing nutjobs like you connotate them as all being pedophiles.

Nonsense. From the prospective of the women, if he has the equipment of a man, he is a man. His internal mental identity is irrelevant. No one is denying them the right to use a public restroom; the question is which. There is no "right" to use the women's room and saying it does not create the right.
Why can you not face the question of the womens' right to privacy?

 

[xbuzzerx]

Nonsense. From the prospective of the women

YOU speak for women now?

if he has the equipment of a man, he is a man. His internal mental identity is irrelevant.

That's your opinion. Medical science and psychology do not agree with you.

Thankfully, an opinion which flies utterly in the face of facts or reason is not a valid basis for legislation or judicial overturn of legal rights, at least not in a society with rule of law.

Again, move to a Sharia society.

 

[Benvolio]

YOU speak for women now?



That's your opinion. Medical science and psychology do not agree with you.

Thankfully, an opinion which flies utterly in the face of facts or reason is not a valid basis for legislation or judicial overturn of legal rights, at least not in a society with rule of law.

Again, move to a Sharia society.

So you speak for the all transexuals, scientists, and psychologists?
You qoted me out of context, by ommitting the first part of the sentence, because you have no answer for my actual statement.
If a woman or girl is showering, and a naked man enters, how is she supposed to know or care if he thinks he is a woman--but stll is attracted to women? Perhaps you are going to have trans women/men carry a card from the government certifying the he is secretly a women.

 

[vidarr]

If a woman or girl is showering, and a naked man enters, how is she supposed to know or care if he thinks he is a woman--but stll is attracted to women?

This argument has been made against gay men forever... It's insulting, as if being gay means you have no control over your sexual urges.
I'm pretty sure the same goes for being trans.

Don't change in the freaking locker room if it makes you that uncomfortable.

 

[Benvolio]

This argument has been made against gay men forever... It's insulting, as if being gay means you have no control over your sexual urges.
I'm pretty sure the same goes for being trans.

Don't change in the freaking locker room if it makes you that uncomfortable.

Tell that to the transgenders. This only arises because transgenders feel uncomfortabl and don't give a tinker's dam how the women feel.

 

[xbuzzerx]

So you speak for the all transexuals, scientists, and psychologists?
You qoted me out of context, by ommitting the first part of the sentence, because you have no answer for my actual statement.
If a woman or girl is showering, and a naked man enters, how is she supposed to know or care if he thinks he is a woman--but stll is attracted to women? Perhaps you are going to have trans women/men carry a card from the government certifying the he is secretly a women.

I repeat.

Thankfully, an opinion which flies utterly in the face of facts or reason is not a valid basis for legislation or judicial overturn of legal rights, at least not in a society with rule of law.

Again, move to a Sharia society.

 

[Benvolio]

I repeat.

Thankfully, an opinion which flies utterly in the face of facts or reason is not a valid basis for legislation or judicial overturn of legal rights, at least not in a society with rule of law.

Again, move to a Sharia society.

What legal right?

 

[xbuzzerx]

What legal right?

You're now in the mode where you spin in circles, asking answers to the same questions six pages into a thread where the same question has been answered many times.

Do you think you're scoring points here? Or making anyone second guess their position? Or winning any converts?

Your argument is a heap of crap. It says let's just pretend no one here has rights at all, let's disregard the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and make it a simple majority vote without any protections or guarantees for the minority.

So move to a Sharia Law society where you can live in the kind of society you selectively want here in the U.S.

 

[Benvolio]

No one has answered to basic question of why the feelings of the tiny few "trans women" count but the feelings the women do not. Even If you claim that some women do not care, many do not want to share facilities with biological men.

 

[TX-Beau]

No one has answered to basic question of why the feelings of the tiny few "trans women" count but the feelings the women do not. Even If you claim that some women do not care, many do not want to share facilities with biological men.

Staunch Ben, resolutely looking away from something everyone else has already explained.

 

[TX-Beau]

I WILL NOT SEE THE PINK ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!

 

[Mariatenebre]

This is a heartbreaking, and educational read worth spending five minutes. I cannot understand why the treatment for this human being was delayed over such a trivial matter of gender.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ted-hour-treating-decided-female-male-ward.ht

I quote:

Well it is Pakistan an Islamic theocracy. Abrahamics have always persecuted LGBT people.

 

[TX-Beau]

Well it is Pakistan an Islamic theocracy. Abrahamics have always persecuted LGBT people.

Christianity after the Reformation started going the other way, it can't be compared to the persecution Islam finds acceptable anymore.

Secularism has fundamentally changed the Christian and Jewish faiths by pulling the majorities further and further away from religious bigotry, and while there are still miles to go, a lot of progress has been made.

 

[Mariatenebre]

The problem is that everything a tiny minority wants is claimed by the democrats to be a "basic constitutional right". Here you claim that the wish of men to hang around the women's dressing rooms, toilets and showers is a "basic constitutional right", and of course, the women who would like some privacy have no rights al all because they are majority.

You do realize that transwomen are not men. No one is fighting for the right to let men in women's spaces but to allow transwomen in these spaces as they are women.

Let's take another look at your transphobic ideas. If you basically forced people to use the same bathroom as the gender they were born into biologically then you would have transmen like this in the women's bathroom.
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/...ill-not-believe-are-trans181114-0/#gs.7_E2wfQ

I think that most ciswomen would rather have say Laverne Cox in the bathroom then Buck Angel.

Tell that to the transgenders. This only arises because transgenders feel uncomfortabl and don't give a tinker's dam how the women feel.

Why should transwomen give a damn about how transphobic people feel? I mean should Blacks have given a damn at the fact that some racist white people didn't want to use the same bathroom as them? Again transwomen are women and deserve to use the female facilities. Again what is your alternative to make for instance transmen like Buck Angel use the same restrooms as the bio females. I guarantee you that most women would rather share for instance a transwoman like Diamond Stylz then someone like Buck Angel.

Also you do realize that the majority has no right to infringe on the rights of the minority right?

 

[TX-Beau]

You do realize that transwomen are not men. No one is fighting for the right to let men in women's spaces but to allow transwomen in these spaces as they are women.

Let's take another look at your transphobic ideas. If you basically forced people to use the same bathroom as the gender they were born into biologically then you would have transmen like this in the women's bathroom.
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/...ill-not-believe-are-trans181114-0/#gs.7_E2wfQ

I think that most ciswomen would rather have say Laverne Cox in the bathroom then Buck Angel.

You're wasting your breath. He finds Trans-people icky and doesn't want them looking at his little pinga.

There it is, and he'll never change.

 

[TX-Beau]

...Why should transwomen give a damn about how transphobic people feel? I mean should Blacks have given a damn at the fact that some racist white people didn't want to use the same bathroom as them? Again transwomen are women and deserve to use the female facilities. Again what is your alternative to make for instance transmen like Buck Angel use the same restrooms as the bio females. I guarantee you that most women would rather share for instance a transwoman like Diamond Stylz then someone like Buck Angel.

Also you do realize that the majority has no right to infringe on the rights of the minority right?

I know what the talking point he's badly mangling is, if the rights of Trans-people can't be violated, the rights of everyone else can't be violated - of course that's stupid Republican logic since no one has ever attempted to bar anyone else from using the bathroom. There is no attempt at discrimination with respect to anyone else - and that is that as far as the law is concerned, and why S.C. ran afoul of the Fed.

That said, there is a cultural argument here that isn't so easy to ignore, Gay men faced it, and Trans people are going to have to face it as well, and that is that perception of Trans people is not benign. Correct or not, fair or not, pleasant or not, no one on the other side of this is going to change unless Trans People show them how.

That needs visibility.

We didn't get anywhere as gay men by ignoring the haters, Trans people are going to have to come out in numbers and challenge them in the same fashion - because you can't win this fight with law, you have to change minds or it just goes on and on.

Is that FAIR, hell no, but that's pretty much that.