Private Militia Takes Over Federal Wildlife Sanctuary in Oregon

[Kulindahr]

They do seem to want a gunfight. They're vowing to "kill or be killed" but police aren't taking the bait.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oregon-militia-fbi_568a831ae4b0b958f65c1bfa

Reporters have asked them repeatedly what concessions anyone might grant to encourage them to leave the wildlife refuge, but they won't answer that.

Bundy's the only one saying that -- ll the rest insist on being peaceful.

Given that the writer chose an outlier opinion as his title for the piece, it makes sense that they won't talk to anyone about concessions; they have good reason to believe anything they say will be twisted.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

They learned it from the political Left.

Going to disregard most of your post because it has to be a joke, including this. They learned this from gun enthusiasts who think having cowboy shootouts is the way to solve problems. If you really think they have guns is because they are in a Wildlife Refuge, you are really deluding yourself. Especially considering someone posted a link to where the said they would respond with force if they were attempted to be taking out of the building.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Bundy's the only one saying that -- ll the rest insist on being peaceful.

Well, since they are all doing this because of them, it is right to assume they are all agree or this would have ended by now.

 

[Kabluey]

I note that the duo in whose name the militia say they're acting have asked them to stop.

 

[rareboy]

Try reading the articles before spinning scenarios. It's been reported that only some of them are even armed.

Sorry. As soon as a group of people pull this shit, it doesn't matter that only some of them are armed.

If the ones who want to keep it peaceful had any backbone, they would have then departed and agreed that it is up to the law to take its course...and that would include the next round of appeals to keep the perps out of jail.

This group wants something more.

If either armed Occupy or black lives protestors took over any place and then someone tried to rationalize or downplay by saying that only some of them were armed......the right wingers would be losing their shit all over the place.

Same with this.

The only sane thing that everyone can do once the Bundy gang rolls into the picture is to back the fuck down and admit that seizing a federal wildlife sanctuary was a stupid move that can bear no results that would help the guys that thought that torching brushland to hide a crime was a good idea.

 

[voltronforce]

They are nuts. When I was in law school taking Constitutional Law 1, I asked my professor about Sovereign Citizens. He gave a very good answer but basically discounted it as not being legal or Constitutional. They think it is the year 1800 and they can take any public lands they want for free. A long time about the Government would let you homestead as long as you improved the land. Those days are gone. These people live in the days of old in an echo chamber.

 

[T-Rexx]

The militants now say they will leave if the local community asks them to go. (By "local," I presume they mean Burns, Oregon, which is actually 30 miles away, but the closest city).

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...g-in-oregon-as-convicted-ranchers-seek-pardon


The Hammonds (the two guys convicted of arson, whose plight allegedly sparked this occupation) say they will appeal to president Obama for clemency. Ironically, however, the militia action against the wildlife refuge (which the Bundys claim was initiated in support of the Hammonds) probably makes it impossible for Obama to pardon the Hammonds. It would set a precedent that any group of vigilantes willing to threaten the government at gunpoint might get the president to intervene on their behalf. And I doubt that Obama wants to set such a precedent.

 

[Kulindahr]

The government has no need to get into a gun fight here. All they have to do is block any further entry into the building(as I'm sure they have) and wait for them to run out of food. Seriously, what did they really think was going to be the end game here?

The forecast is for some new snowfall. The FBI could go build snowmen all around the place and tell the occupiers they're surrounded.

 

[Kulindahr]

Going to disregard most of your post because it has to be a joke, including this. They learned this from gun enthusiasts who think having cowboy shootouts is the way to solve problems. If you really think they have guns is because they are in a Wildlife Refuge, you are really deluding yourself. Especially considering someone posted a link to where the said they would respond with force if they were attempted to be taking out of the building.

Don't they teach history any more?

 

[Kulindahr]

Well, since they are all doing this because of them, it is right to assume they are all agree or this would have ended by now.

You don't even know why they're there.....

Try again -- they're not there for the Bundys. They're not doing it for the Bundys.

BTW, do you assume that everyone who goes to the Democratic National Convention is in total agreement on everything, too?

 

[Kulindahr]

I note that the duo in whose name the militia say they're acting have asked them to stop.

Maybe the majority, who aren't there to shoot or get shot at, will leave.

 

[Kulindahr]

Sorry. As soon as a group of people pull this shit, it doesn't matter that only some of them are armed.

If the ones who want to keep it peaceful had any backbone, they would have then departed and agreed that it is up to the law to take its course...and that would include the next round of appeals to keep the perps out of jail.

This group wants something more.

If either armed Occupy or black lives protestors took over any place and then someone tried to rationalize or downplay by saying that only some of them were armed......the right wingers would be losing their shit all over the place.

Same with this.

The only sane thing that everyone can do once the Bundy gang rolls into the picture is to back the fuck down and admit that seizing a federal wildlife sanctuary was a stupid move that can bear no results that would help the guys that thought that torching brushland to hide a crime was a good idea.

You're conflating two different things. This is clearly not a single group. Do you really think an Occupy group would just all pack up and leave because some group with guns showed up to "support" them? I don't -- it would be stupid to do so. It would tell all the nutcases that all they have to do to control the agenda is show up, because everyone else will just walk away.

 

[Kulindahr]

The militants now say they will leave if the local community asks them to go. (By "local," I presume they mean Burns, Oregon, which is actually 30 miles away, but the closest city).

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...g-in-oregon-as-convicted-ranchers-seek-pardon


The Hammonds (the two guys convicted of arson, whose plight allegedly sparked this occupation) say they will appeal to president Obama for clemency. Ironically, however, the militia action against the wildlife refuge (which the Bundys claim was initiated in support of the Hammonds) probably makes it impossible for Obama to pardon the Hammonds. It would set a precedent that any group of vigilantes willing to threaten the government at gunpoint might get the president to intervene on their behalf. And I doubt that Obama wants to set such a precedent.

If there were only a way to throw the Bundys behind bars instead of the Hammonds....

 

[TickTockMan]

Maybe this won't last long after all? They didn't seem to plan too well.



Oregon Militiamen Asking for Snacks, Socks, Money on Facebook

It's hard to mount on occupation on an empty stomach.

Despite claims that the armed militiamen who are occupying a U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service building in Oregon are set up for a lengthy stay, Facebook posts from some of the men and their supporters are asking for supplies, including "snacks and energy drinks."

http://www.people.com/article/oregon-militiamen-accepting-donations-facebook

 

[jbrown329]

Bullshit. They need to be made an example. Charge the bastards with terrorism and shove their miserable asses in prison for 25 to life. Next time, assholes like that will think twice.

 

[otters]

They need to be made an example. Charge the bastards with terrorism and shove their miserable asses in prison for 25 to life.

Agreed. Specific deterrence.

Next time, assholes like that will think twice.

I doubt that the concept of "General or indirect deterrence" ("general prevention of crime") actually works when the perpetrators in question are morons…

 

[kgeo1960]

What really pisses me off though, is the media outlets refusal to call these people what they are, they are not a militia they are terrorist! Pure and simple domestic terrorist. To preface this statement I am not down on Christians or any other religion, live and let live I say, but if a christian goes and shoots up an abortion clinic to "save the babies" they are crazy or just mentally unstable. If a Muslim and I use the term loosely since I believe that a true Muslim would never do such a thing, shoots up the place they are terrorist. I don't see the difference here. Call these people what they are, they are terrorist.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

You don't even know why they're there.....

Try again -- they're not there for the Bundys. They're not doing it for the Bundys.

BTW, do you assume that everyone who goes to the Democratic National Convention is in total agreement on everything, too?

I know who they are doing it for, don't mock me because it is the only thing you can do in an argument. "Ranchers right" are the reason The Bundys are there, the Bundys are leading this "Militia" and if they're the ones saying "killed or be killed" then the other people that are with them aren't leaving, then they are with that same notion. So again, before mocking maybe you should try to understand what I said.

 

[T-Rexx]

If there were only a way to throw the Bundys behind bars instead of the Hammonds....

I can't imagine that the Bundys (and the other militants in their group) will get out of this without some consequence.

 

[TickTockMan]

This pisses me off.


Law Enforcement Confirms Militiamen Are Free To Come and Go From Refuge

Their supplies look to be dwindling and militia men who overtook the Malheur Wildlife Refuge in Oregon have pleaded with sympathizers to send food, but law enforcement tell TPM that the men are free to resupply on their own.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/militiamen-able-to-get-food-on-their-own