Private Militia Takes Over Federal Wildlife Sanctuary in Oregon

[T-Rexx]

^ I think it's a good strategy. Since Waco, the management of these situations has changed markedly.

These guys seem to want a standoff. But law enforcement seems determined NOT to give them what they want.

 

[TickTockMan]

^ I think it's a good strategy. Since Waco, the management of these situations has changed markedly.

These guys seem to want a standoff. But law enforcement seems determined NOT to give them what they want.

Maybe you're right, but I am more for cutting power and water and all access. Starve and freeze them out.


The fact they did not even last a week before asking for food shows they are not too bright. Arrest them on the way out.

 

[zoltanspawn]

I appreciate this perspective, that the ranchers may not be the party the federal government is infringing on.

Native Americans React To Oregon Armed Occupation: Burns Paiute Tribe Says, ‘We Were Here First'

 

[T-Rexx]

Maybe you're right, but I am more for cutting power and water and all access. Starve and freeze them out.


The fact they did not even last a week before asking for food shows they are not too bright. Arrest them on the way out.

The local sheriff says they will face charges when the siege ends.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366

It's probably not necessary to arrest them as they leave the wildlife refuge. The FBI knows who these guys are, and where they live.

 

[vidarr]

Are you kidding? We know they are armed and hostile. Yet I guess we can just arrest them later...

If you let the terrorists resupply you create another mess. Like if they decide to bring a bomb next time.

 

[rareboy]

The local sheriff says they will face charges when the siege ends.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366

It's probably not necessary to arrest them as they leave the wildlife refuge. The FBI knows who these guys are, and where they live.

The problem is....all charges will be dropped and unprosecutable if there is no attempt to prevent people from coming and going to the compound. It isn't much different than simple trespass...although they are all running around with guns.

I think that the Feds et al have decided that if they pay no attention whatsoever, these idiots will just lose their puff, declare some kind of victory and then go home to plot the next thing.

And in fact, the FBI may be letting this all play out in order to trap some of these protestors in planning real acts of terrorism.

 

[Kulindahr]

What really pisses me off though, is the media outlets refusal to call these people what they are, they are not a militia they are terrorist! Pure and simple domestic terrorist. To preface this statement I am not down on Christians or any other religion, live and let live I say, but if a christian goes and shoots up an abortion clinic to "save the babies" they are crazy or just mentally unstable. If a Muslim and I use the term loosely since I believe that a true Muslim would never do such a thing, shoots up the place they are terrorist. I don't see the difference here. Call these people what they are, they are terrorist.

There's no terror happening, so they aren't terrorists. If anything, they're clowns, and should be treated that way.

Surround them with snow men. Fling snowballs at them. Make them look foolish.

 

[Kulindahr]

I know who they are doing it for, don't mock me because it is the only thing you can do in an argument. "Ranchers right" are the reason The Bundys are there, the Bundys are leading this "Militia" and if they're the ones saying "killed or be killed" then the other people that are with them aren't leaving, then they are with that same notion. So again, before mocking maybe you should try to understand what I said.

I'm not mocking anyone -- your statements were factually wrong. At the least, you're guilty of sloppy thinking.

Others present have said the Bundys don't belong there, have their own agenda, and are just troublemakers -- that was on the news last night.

So, again: do you believe that everyone at the Democratic National Convention is in total agreement with the nutcases who show up and attend? To be consistent, you have to maintain that all groups are actually in agreement with the most extreme people in attendance -- even if those people aren't wanted.

 

[Kulindahr]

Maybe you're right, but I am more for cutting power and water and all access. Starve and freeze them out.


The fact they did not even last a week before asking for food shows they are not too bright. Arrest them on the way out.

Once they've been there a month, start billing them for utilities.

 

[Kulindahr]

I appreciate this perspective, that the ranchers may not be the party the federal government is infringing on.

Native Americans React To Oregon Armed Occupation: Burns Paiute Tribe Says, ‘We Were Here First'

Whoa -- I'd forgotten that connection! I have at least one Paiute in my family tree, on a different branch (second and third cousins), so I'm embarrassed here.

 

[Kulindahr]

The problem is....all charges will be dropped and unprosecutable if there is no attempt to prevent people from coming and going to the compound. It isn't much different than simple trespass...although they are all running around with guns.

I think that the Feds et al have decided that if they pay no attention whatsoever, these idiots will just lose their puff, declare some kind of victory and then go home to plot the next thing.

And in fact, the FBI may be letting this all play out in order to trap some of these protestors in planning real acts of terrorism.

Charges won't necessarily be dropped. Federal law enforcement has give itself the privilege of watching illegal activity to get more evidence and let the perpetrators dig themselves a deeper hole.

Since according to reports the armed 'occupiers' are a minority, maybe they're waiting until they know exactly who is armed and who isn't. Occupying federal land while armed is an extremely different matter than being unarmed, so that would make sense.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I'm not mocking anyone -- your statements were factually wrong. At the least, you're guilty of sloppy thinking.

Others present have said the Bundys don't belong there, have their own agenda, and are just troublemakers -- that was on the news last night.

So, again: do you believe that everyone at the Democratic National Convention is in total agreement with the nutcases who show up and attend? To be consistent, you have to maintain that all groups are actually in agreement with the most extreme people in attendance -- even if those people aren't wanted.

My statements weren't factually wrong, I made one error earlier in a post but that is it. That is called being a human being, not sloppy thinking.

If you are not mocking the what is "Don't they teach history anymore?" supposed to be? How about be a man an own up to the mocking? Or don't mock at all. It is a poor mans tactic to do this because it means you don't have a response or can't answer what is being presented.

And as for the question, it is illogical and an ill comparison. The protesters who were doing it peacefully are the ones who disagree with the bundys, the people who went in with the bundys, with their guns and taking over a federal building agree with his stance or otherwise they wouldn't have went in with him and stayed. If they don't agree with him then they need to come out and say so, otherwise they do. They are adults and have free will and choices they can make, unless they are being forced to stay, they can leave.

 

[T-Rexx]

A group of armed men calling themselves the "Pacific Patriot Network" attempted to join the Bundy militia on Saturday morning, to "assist with security."

Surprisingly, the new recruits were rejected by the Bundys and left the area a few hours later.

The Bundys say they were "concerned about the perception the armed visitors conveyed." An armed militia which says its members will fight to their deaths is concerned about the perception conveyed by an armed militia?


http://bigstory.ap.org/50e3ac89248c403dbea6627865af2a32

 

[TickTockMan]

A group of armed men calling themselves the "Pacific Patriot Network" attempted to join the Bundy militia on Saturday morning, to "assist with security."

Surprisingly, the new recruits were rejected by the Bundys and left the area a few hours later.

The Bundys say they were "concerned about the perception the armed visitors conveyed." An armed militia which says its members will fight to their deaths is concerned about the perception conveyed by an armed militia?


http://bigstory.ap.org/50e3ac89248c403dbea6627865af2a32

Everything I have read has said the new group is guarding the grounds and are still there. Did they leave?

 

[T-Rexx]

^ The Bundy militia is still occupying the wildlife refuge.

The Pacific Patriot Network attempted to join the Bundy militia on the refuge, but was rejected by the Bundys. The members of the PPN then left the area.

 

[TickTockMan]

^ The Bundy militia is still occupying the wildlife refuge.

The Pacific Patriot Network attempted to join the Bundy militia on the refuge, but was rejected by the Bundys. The members of the PPN then left the area.

My local news is saying The Pacific Patriot Network is still there watching the grounds. They are not with the Bundys, but they are still doing their thing.


I am in Oregon. The news here is following fairly closely. Maybe they left within the last hour or so?

 

[T-Rexx]

^ The AP article to which I linked says the PPN "left several hours later." (At this point, it's still a breaking story, however).

BURNS, Ore. (AP) — A group of armed men from around the Pacific Northwest who arrived at a wildlife refuge on Saturday morning left several hours later after people leading an occupation of the refuge told them they weren't needed.

Todd MacFarlane, a Utah lawyer acting as a mediator, said occupation leader Ammon Bundy and others were concerned about the perception the armed visitors conveyed.

"This was the last thing in the world they wanted to see happen," MacFarlane told The Oregonian.

Bundy didn't request the presence of the Pacific Patriot Network, he said, and has "tried to put out the word: 'We don't need you.'"


http://bigstory.ap.org/50e3ac89248c403dbea6627865af2a32

 

[TickTockMan]

^ The AP article to which I linked says the PPN "left several hours later." (At this point, it's still a breaking story, however).

What I am trying to say is all of the reports I have read from local news said the PPN people said they would not leave as well. They are guarding the grounds. They are staying to be a go between. They were not mixing with the Bundy people, just staying outside to watch over things. A couple reports said they may even be trying to broker a deal and they may not be on the Bundy's side.

This is all from local Oregon sources.

 

[TickTockMan]

I am 42 minutes into the 10pm news and there was only about a minute on Bundy and the standoff. Nothing was said about PPN at all. I am not sure why.

 

[rareboy]

Haven't they run out of snacks yet?