Proposition 8 Has Officially Passed

[Radio_Ethiopia]

This is so disappointing, I cannot believe the hatred people have.

 

[rotary]

Put it in perspective guys. What is so GREAT about marriage when civil unions exist? It's history is filled with strict rules, inequality and arranged marriages, especially where women are concerned...for example, ancient Hebrew law forced a man to marry his brother's widow. Over 50% of heterosexual marriages end in divorce these days, and cheating is rampant. What the hell are we trying to emulate? The roots of marriage come from economic security between two people. Add irrelevant and disgraceful organized religion into the mix. What are you actually left with?

The history of marriage and all it's victimizing sickens me. I couldn't care less if gay marriage is banned. I don't need this disgraceful institution based on inequality to give my relationship worth and meaning, whether it's in the eyes of the law or not.
​

 

[Kulindahr]

This is so disappointing, I cannot believe the hatred people have.

To a serious extent, it's a response to what they perceive as hate from gays, wanting to steal or profane something the hold scared.

And I don't think we'll ever resolve the issue until we accept that demanding gay marriage is, to them, like announcing we plan to piss in their parlor and shit in the sink.

 

[heymikey]

Man, this makes me proud to be a Canadian.

 

[CoolguyAT]

Put it in perspective guys. What is so GREAT about marriage when civil unions exist?
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This is a good point and one i'm beginning to think may be the direction our country needs to take. W'eve been trying for gay marriage and with the exception of certain parts of New England it's just not getting the support it needs. While Obama is pro gay rights he does not support gay marriage but does support civil unions, which is something I think he will try and get both the gay community and mainstream america on board with.

As for Prop 8, it is a huge set back and I am suprised that a state as progressive as California would vote against gay marriage.

 

[CoolguyAT]

Yea but on the other side of that A LOT of gay whites are extremely racist. The mainstream gay majority still very much oppresses minorities within the gay community. So why should black people automatically support gay rights just because they were oppressed when a lot of gays don't care about ethnic minorities?

I agree with you on some points but I do want to get some clarification. Are you saying that a lot of gay whites that oppress minorities in the gay community do so in terms of dating or in terms of general acceptance or both?

 

[Kulindahr]

This is a good point and one i'm beginning to think may be the direction our country needs to take. W'eve been trying for gay marriage and with the exception of certain parts of New England it's just not getting the support it needs. While Obama is pro gay rights he does not support gay marriage but does support civil unions, which is something I think he will try and get both the gay community and mainstream america on board with.

As for Prop 8, it is a huge set back and I am suprised that a state as progressive as California would vote against gay marriage.

The success of the issue in California just demonstrates the futility of the current approach.

You've got it right about the civil union idea... but not quite. Since all those people consider it religious, the route to go is to say, "Oh my -- you're right! Marriage is religious! ... ... ... But we can't have laws about religious things! We'll just have to get this word "marriage" out of federal law, and we'll all have civil unions... whoever wants one".

Besides being constitutionally sound, it's a great ju-jitsu move.

 

[Kulindahr]

I agree with you on some points but I do want to get some clarification. Are you saying that a lot of gay whites that oppress minorities in the gay community do so in terms of dating or in terms of general acceptance or both?

How about gay guys who get up and leave when a black guy comes into a bar?

 

[thackftl]

This is a good point and one i'm beginning to think may be the direction our country needs to take. W'eve been trying for gay marriage and with the exception of certain parts of New England it's just not getting the support it needs. While Obama is pro gay rights he does not support gay marriage but does support civil unions, which is something I think he will try and get both the gay community and mainstream america on board with.

As for Prop 8, it is a huge set back and I am suprised that a state as progressive as California would vote against gay marriage.

I've said this on other posts and I will continue to say it: What's the obsession with marriage when we don't have equal rights in more critical areas? In thirty-three (33!) states it's still perfectly legal to fire someone because he or she is gay. Who cares if you can't get legally married if you can't keep a job for being who you are!

Imagine if all the money that went into fighting Prop 8 in CA or Amendment 2 in FL went to guaranteeing our employment rights. I firmly believe that the majority of people that voted for these discriminatory laws would have difficulty denying employment protection to us. Of course we need to fight for ALL equal rights (including marriage); but, let's start with a more reasonable objective and work from there.

Just my two cents.

 

[bobinri]

I'm hoping Rhode Island is the next state that allows same-sex marriage....we're already surrounded by the 2 states that do allow it so it should just be the natural flow.

 

[relaxin13]

Obama being elected made me happy... and then I heard this. Maybe it's just because I'm so far away in NH, but I didn't think that prop 8 would ever get passed. It makes me feel unwanted, disrespected, and sad.

Why do marriage licenses give rights anyways? Shouldn't it be that only civil unions grant rights, while registering for a marriage license also registers you for a civil union?
I think if this were the case and individual churches had the right to decide whether or not they'd marry gay couples, then everyone would have the chance to be happy (and Separation of Church and State wouldn't be violated!).

 

[Kulindahr]

Well dude without gays to piss on what minority would be left? I hear the f*g bomb from blacks all the time.

Seriously, lets allow some time for all the african-americans to lie in awe of their first black prez and see if their attitudes change about other minorites having rights. Also lets wait and see if Obama walks the walk on gay rights or is just gonna talk. If we're gonna have to deal with the hideous fiscal policies of a leftist we better at least get the social "progress" that is suppose to come along with them.

Also are we gonna have to have this hoopla for the first woman prez, hispanic prez, asian prez, pacific islander prez, native american prez and openly gay prez? I sure as hell hope we can get to all of us just checking the human box. These divisions on trivial biological things like race, sex and who u f*** is getting old and I am only 23.

The country has gone through hoopla over "first" before -- for example, the first Catholic president, who didn't surrender us to the Vatican after all....

It happens every time someone who isn't one of the "tribe" "makes it" past such a major barrier. We had English, Irish, German, and others who integrated, some getting that "first" of "their" president, others not. Catholics were viewed with suspicion until a Catholic president showed he was one of us, too -- though that, as with this, was a matter of both leading the wave and riding it.

 

[Kulindahr]

Obama being elected made me happy... and then I heard this. Maybe it's just because I'm so far away in NH, but I didn't think that prop 8 would ever get passed. It makes me feel unwanted, disrespected, and sad.

Why do marriage licenses give rights anyways? Shouldn't it be that only civil unions grant rights, while registering for a marriage license also registers you for a civil union?
I think if this were the case and individual churches had the right to decide whether or not they'd marry gay couples, then everyone would have the chance to be happy (and Separation of Church and State wouldn't be violated!).

Certificates and licenses don't bestow rights, only authorization. We all have the right already; the problem is that America wandered away from regarding rights as of ultimate importance, and so grew a system no one realized was discriminatory until some folks made noises.

Your view of the situation as far as the legal situation is quite insightful: if churches do marriage, then we should let them do that, and the government should just register the unions of whoever comes and says "We're united!"

 

[SwingBoy]

Put it in perspective guys. What is so GREAT about marriage when civil unions exist? It's history is filled with strict rules, inequality and arranged marriages, especially where women are concerned...for example, ancient Hebrew law forced a man to marry his brother's widow. Over 50% of heterosexual marriages end in divorce these days, and cheating is rampant. What the hell are we trying to emulate? The roots of marriage come from economic security between two people. Add irrelevant and disgraceful organized religion into the mix. What are you actually left with?

The history of marriage and all it's victimizing sickens me. I couldn't care less if gay marriage is banned. I don't need this disgraceful institution based on inequality to give my relationship worth and meaning, whether it's in the eyes of the law or not.
​

Excellent point

 

[Blizzard0119]

For what it is worth I consider myself a gay catholic in that I believe that we should treat people equally. Obama is going to provide a great wind of change and hopefully Prop 8 will be overturned, though I confess I do not understand politics enough to really have an opinion.
I would like to marry someone in the future though and I believe that is one step closer thanks to Obama.

Good luck everyone.

 

[coldsweat]

This was not written by me, however it says exactly what I think...


taken from the straight dope message boards:

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Hey, y'all! Yes, you. Everyone who voted for Proposition 8 in California yesterday, and everyone who's voted for similar measures in Arizona or elsewhere. Come on down. Have a seat. Have a beer. I'd like just a moment of your time; I promise I'll go quickly, and I won't swear. Everybody with me?

So I'm sure you're feeling pretty good today, and why wouldn't you? It isn't every day you get a golden opportunity to hurt thousands of people who never did a thing to you, in exchange for zero benefit to yourself or to society. You sure showed those people who were just looking to share their lives with the person they love, didn't you? Awesome work, and I hate to be a party pooper at this, your great moment of triumph over the homosexuals. But today, of all days, it seems necessary to remind you of one thing that, I suspect, you already know deep down.

You're going to lose.

You do recognize that, right? I mean, 150 years ago, your philosophical forebears kept black men as slaves. A hundred years ago, your philosophical forebears outlawed marriage between a white woman and a black man. People like you denied blacks the vote, denied women the vote, tacitly allowed marital rape, segregated the schools, and burned down stores with Jewish owners. And yesterday, a man that people like you once enslaved, the product of a union that people like you once forbade, was elected President of the United States of America in part by citizens that people like you once disenfranchised. The slaveowners, the segregationists, the Klan, the rest of it, all of them are gone or marginalized, sad jokes, and the only thing separating you from them is just a little more time. A little.

And you do know it. I can see it in your panicky faces. You managed to get a cheap amendment passed yesterday, a stopgap against a tide you can't stem, but you know and I know that amendments get repealed. Laws get changed. Oh, you may still have a decade, give or take, to put your pitiful boot down on a group that still distresses enough of your peers to make it unprotected.

But within your lifetime, it's going to happen. Gay men, and gay women, will be married. Not engaged in a "civil union," but married. To each other! They'll share their names, homes, and lives; they'll have the sex you can't bear to think about, in the context of a legally recognized relationship. Then, you know what they'll do? They'll adopt and raise children. They'll join the PTA at your grandkids' school. And you - as marginalized as the "separate-but-equal" shlubs became after the 60's - you'll see it happen. And you'll sit muttering into your bib about how things used to be, and members of a generation who never knew anything but equal marriage rights for all will nod politely and move away, pausing maybe to wipe the creamed corn off your chin.

It's coming, and we all know it. We know it because the natural direction of this society has always been toward more freedom, more rationality, more common decency. We move in pathetically small increments sometimes, mostly because of people like you, but we keep on moving and we're going to move right on past your outmoded ass. And there is nothing - nothing - that you can do about it.
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[Backlum-Chaam]

Put it in perspective guys. What is so GREAT about marriage when civil unions exist?​

There are LOTS of fed-level laws and protections involving marriage (namely immigration law) that can't be accessed with a state-level civil union.

Not to mention the fact that state-level unions can be ignored in other states, while heterosexual marriages are recognized nationwide regardless of origin state.​

 

[Kulindahr]

Put it in perspective guys. What is so GREAT about marriage when civil unions exist? It's history is filled with strict rules, inequality and arranged marriages, especially where women are concerned...for example, ancient Hebrew law forced a man to marry his brother's widow. Over 50% of heterosexual marriages end in divorce these days, and cheating is rampant. What the hell are we trying to emulate? The roots of marriage come from economic security between two people. Add irrelevant and disgraceful organized religion into the mix. What are you actually left with?

The history of marriage and all it's victimizing sickens me. I couldn't care less if gay marriage is banned. I don't need this disgraceful institution based on inequality to give my relationship worth and meaning, whether it's in the eyes of the law or not.
​

Good observations.

From that perspective, saying to the religious folks who oppose that we want gay marriage is like saying, "Please, let us wallow in the unequal, abusive, corrupt miasma you've made of this institution."

Maybe in my suggested "Restoring Sacred Marriage to Believers" Act, we should make clear that the rest of us are handing it back to them so they can focus on it themselves and get it right, instead of trying to blame their failures on the rest of the world.

 

[Kulindahr]

There are LOTS of fed-level laws and protections involving marriage (namely immigration law) that can't be accessed with a state-level civil union.

Not to mention the fact that state-level unions can be ignored in other states, while heterosexual marriages are recognized nationwide regardless of origin state.

That's one more reason that this should be tackled at the level of the U.S. Constitution, under the twin attacks of religious discrimination and of freedom of association. Once SCOTUS has stated that whatever the law says about marriage has to be available to everyone equally, the fall of state discriminatory laws and statutes is only a matter of lawyers and time.


<envisions the U.S. Attorney General suing the State of California to overturn Prop 8>

 

[firepheonixx]

I have a question

If we are not being treated with equal rights, how come we have to pay the full taxes?

because I own a home and pay the highest taxes in the country, I'm fucking good to pay all this shit, and school taxes (60% of my taxes) for kids and they don't let my partner share....


my money is good for this....but not to get FUCKING MARRIED & HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS! !

​