"Queer as Folk" and "Six Feet Under": required watching for gays?

[Lube]

Yes, it really is.

To parallel, your question should read, " Should condoms be required for safer sex?"

The assumption that the material is a given in the definition is the assertion.

It's asking if anyone wants to play cards, and then breaking out the Canasta deck.

There's a reason why these shows are fading into the background. And that's not to say they won't return.



That's even worse.

The long and short? When Lube stops acting like he works at the one size fits all gay box factory, he'll stop having people criticize his threads.

Do a simple Google search for "required watching" and you'll find thousands of lists of things people say others should watch. If you take any of them as seriously as you're taking my suggestion, you'd be so busy writing to them and complaining that you'd have no time for a real life.

You are being absurd.

 

[Lube]

So you love the show... But somehow my reasoning for liking it or suggesting it to other gay men is wrong or something??

Sorry, I can't follow that logic at all.

 

[altlover85]

Yes, it really is.

To parallel, your question should read, " Should condoms be required for safer sex?"

The assumption that the material is a given in the definition is the assertion.

It's asking if anyone wants to play cards, and then breaking out the Canasta deck.

You can still hold the opposite position while asking the question. The whole Canasta thing only works if you asked a question like "Is Canasta the best card game?"

Obviously he believes that they are important, but again, if he didn't care to hear what you thought of the shows he could have written a thread called "The importance of QAF and SFU as cultural artifacts of gay life in the early 2000's" but he didn't. He asked a question.

 

[roadtripboy]

I'm a little surprised no one is discussing Six Feet Under's flaws.

I liked it but, the show was condescending. It talked down to it's viewers and treated them as if they were simpletons.

And the weekly grisly death was a stunt that got old quickly.

 

[Lube]

I'm a little surprised no one is discussing Six Feet Under's flaws.

I liked it but, the show was condescending. It talked down to it's viewers and treated them as if they were simpletons.

compared to your average TV show?

 

[roadtripboy]

^No, your average TV show is different. Often they're bad, but rarely condescending. They're just sort of: here it is, take it or leave it. (I worked in TV for 22 years, believe me that's the way most things get produced.)

SFU was like that kid in class who always had his/her hand up going: "Oh, Oh call on me, call on me, I know the answer". You know, little miss special.

 

[CowboyBob]

Season 5 of QAF has an interesting product placement. In a lot of scenes the characters are using or standing near an Apple computer which is well placed in the shot. iMacs, eMacs, MacBooks, Apple cinema displays; they all have them.

Noticed this also in the later seasons of SFU. Lots of Apple products.

 

[altlover85]

I agree with this. Milli Vanilli also had value for some people, too.

For those folks who are saying I speak out on things I know "nothing" about, I find it interesting that no specific case is mentioned. The only thing that I can think of is the fact that I've been really opinionated on shows like Queer As Folk and Glee without being able to give and episode-by-episode recap of why I didn't like them.

Well, here's the thing: If I watch a show and I don't like it, I won't continue to watch it. It's pretty simple, honestly.

I don't need ten examples to show that you speak about things you don't know about. The two you gave suffice. Generally I don't talk about shows or book I haven't read.

As far as the show goes, I never implied that the show wouldn't be helpful to some. I agree, there are plenty of points to relate to for tons of folks. I just think it's hilarious to even suggest that it could serve as required viewing as there are millions of things we (as people) can relate to and there is a vast, diverse amount of gay media out there to look for. Just isolating two shows (and doing so in the name of "accepting diversity") is completely nonsensical. Even if they were shows I liked, that would be my opinion. Diversity = good. Period.

It depends on what you define as diversity. There was masculine and feminine diversity, diversity of levels of acceptance among families, diversity of approaches to relationships. Was there racial, age, or body type diversity? No.

As for Lube, I understand to some that a thread about TV shows turning to personal may be a turnoff. But I was dumbfounded at Elvin's post, because Lube constantly takes every opportunity to singularize the gay community into a big convenient stereotype and does it under the guise of gay pride. For someone to be doing this after being so extremely closeted (and yes, denial is part of the closet), is alarming to me. Maybe it happened on a "light-hearted" thread, but it is what it is.

Well even saying there is a gay community generally means that they have to have some commonalities. I would think you would be of the school that a gay community doesn't exist, so I'm not surprised at your reaction to his posts.

I don't understand your need to make excuses for him. I'm not blasting him for being in the closet. I just think it's funny that his world is so black and white, that the only alternative to being in the closet is being out, constantly going on about how all gays like the same things, bisexuality doesn't exist, the kinsey scale is nonsense, straight men aren't sensitive unless they're closeted etc. Once again under the guise of gay pride. Talk about trading one extreme for another.

I don't agree with him on everything. However, I do see the closet as either open or shut. There may be different spheres that we operate in where we can said to be out and others where we may be in (work vs. family, immediate family vs. extended family, friends vs. family) but I do think if people don't know you are gay, then you are in the closet.

As to all gay men having the same tastes, I don't think he said that and I don't believe it to be true. Part of the issue is that not all gay men are out, so it's hard to know what all of them like. The other part of the issue is that the media has associated certain things with being gay. Which came first, I don't know. I would suspect that the men most comfortable with being gay may have been the more effeminate ones because they were probably the ones that were ostracized in general. Did the media pick up on this and perpetuate it? It's likely. Did this help the gay men that were like those they saw in the media come out? Perhaps. So in the end we don't have a complete view of gay men, but I think we have an idea of some traits that more out gay men share when compared to straight men. Or maybe we just notice the stereotypes more than other things. I don't know for sure.

 

[altlover85]

I
I wasn't talking about QAF specifically with that comment. I was simply met that diversity would be suggesting that gay men growing up try to find gay media that they can relate to--not simply one or two shows.

I don't think he ever said they should rely soley on those shows.

The commonality of the gay community is being gay. Of course there's a gay community. A community of beautiful, diverse gay individuals.

Where I've contradicted with Lube is because I've found he'd rather accept the community without the concept of individualism.

How would you describe the gay community? What characteristics would you assign to it?

 

[Lube]

Very diverse. There is no one characteristic.

^ Exactly. I don't use terms like "gay community" to sum up people. The purpose of the term has more to do with grouping us in terms of social issues, I feel.

Our commonalities are our sexuality and the way that things like marraige equality, homophobia, etc. effects us.

So how do you explain advertising? How come some advertisers target The Advocate? Surely you know that a magazine aimed at blacks will have a different set of advertisers compared to one with a mostly Asian or a mostly white audience.

It doesn't mean all blacks (or whites, for that matter) are all clones of each other. But it does mean they share interests--interests over and above the fact that their skin is a certain color.

If you looked at car manufacturers and models, you would see that not every model had the exact same percentage of black purchasers. Different models appeal to different people. I don't know why, but it's true.

Same thing with gays. If you think the models we drive follow the same pattern as straight people, you're wrong. There are gay car enthusiast web sites. Look at their top models. Not the same as the overall best selling cars.

I don't fit the world into a binary, black and white view. All I'm saying is that we share interests, preferences, hobbies, etc. It doesn't mean we're all identical.

You take a comment I make as absolute literal truth for all time, when it's just a comment in the context of a conversation. That's synthetic drama that you're inventing.

 

[Lube]

After reading and watching this thread, it really is funny.

"GAF", one step above "Noah's Arc"' as a series IMO. ,SFU" not a great portrayal of issuses or of gay life. "SFU" gay issues was a bit over the top for me. The gay stuff was secondary for me in that series. I can suggest other stuff to read or view, but everyone has their own opinions. "Tales of the City" was much more realistic and all encompassing, but everyone has their opinions.
I tend go out and watch documentaries.

What is required is what something means to you.

Why don't you suggest something else? The point of this thread isn't to validate my personal opinion. It's to hear what others think, and for them to chime in.

Ok, you don't think QAF or SFU are valuable. That's fine. What would you suggest instead?

There's a reason we read a lot of the same literature in school/college/university. It's not only examples of great language and writing and storytelling, it's also so that we have a shared knowledge base so that we can relate to each other.

For a scared closeted guy who's unsure how to come out, what media (books, tv, movies, etc) would you recommend to him so that he could learn some of the issues gay men deal with, such as bullying, self-hatred, accepting religions, homophobia in government institutions, coming out to coworkers and family, ageism in the gay community, domineering boyfriends, being gay at high school prom, parenthood, etc.?

 

[Lube]

Yes, I love the show. But no, I don't think the show is as deep as you seem to think it is, in the ways you think it is.

That isn't logic, it's opinion.

I never said it was War and Peace. I said it seemed like something gay folks could learn from.

Sesame Street isn't deep. Does that mean it's not valuable?

 

[Lube]

Yeah, in many ways Ted was my favorite. And he was the cutest, imo.
And I'm sorry...but people can call him boring all they want-- but I loved his scenes.

Emmett was cool. He is one of those out and proud guys who doesn't take shit from anyone. He was so comfortable in his skin, one couldn't help but admire him. He was a good guy.


Side note--I loathed Justin and Brian throughout the entire series. Ugh! They just worked my damn nerves!


Michael and Ben...

Sorry, Neo. Don't take my Ted comments personally. Its just if you get in a conversation about the show, the first people mentioned are probably Brian, Justin, and Emmett. They stand out.

Justin didn't bother me, but Brian definitely got on my nerves. Less so, though, after you find out what his parents were like. Then it becomes more understandable.

Even the most stereotyped characters had some three-dimensionality to them.

 

[Lube]

We're now going down the road of semantics and prose; I stated clearly in my second sentence that it wasn't logic, it was opinion. Mine.

That said, I think i'm done.

Except your opinion was that you loved the show.

But, oh, if Lube likes it, then I guess you just have to automatically disagree.

Nice binary world you live in.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>Nice binary world you live in.

Hear hear.

Lex

 

[CowboyBob]

I never said it was War and Peace. I said it seemed like something gay folks could learn from.

Sesame Street isn't deep. Does that mean it's not valuable?

Lube, I was speaking with a Victorian street urchin and he was appauled with the movie Oliver! which won best picture in 1968. He said it did not realize an accurate portrayal of the Street Urchin Community and all it's diversity. It gave an unrealistic view to the world of the plight of his people and their current issues.

Glossing over the grinding poverty of his community using vast production numbers and pickpockets dancing in the streets while belting out B-flats displays to the world a favorable light of orphans. That simply isn't true.

It's the same with the Superhero community. They are a diverse population, and there isn't a single superhero of mine that wears tights and a cape or leap tall buildings at a single bound. The series of Superman movies was totally unrealistic.

Shameful!

 

[altlover85]

^ Exactly. I don't use terms like "gay community" to sum up people. The purpose of the term has more to do with grouping us in terms of social issues, I feel.

Our commonalities are our sexuality and the way that things like marraige equality, homophobia, etc. effects us.

Ok. We have different ideas of what the word means then. At least now I understand where you are coming from, even if I don't agree with you about certain things.

 

[G-Lexington]

I know one person who admitted (in a rather shame-faced fashion) that something about human nature became clear to him while watching an episode of Dinosaurs.

I hereby suggest, therefore, that this is an important show that all people watch in order to better understand the human condition.

Lex

 

[datjacob]

Neither show casts gays in a positive light so i would say neither.

I would love to see a gay version of The cosby show or family ties. Now that would be great for our community.

 

[roadtripboy]

Neither show casts gays in a positive light so i would say neither.

I would love to see a gay version of The cosby show or family ties. Now that would be great for our community.

There would be people who would say Modern Family on ABC does that. Not sure I agree with them.