Relationship advice needed. I have a really toxic relationship and I don't know whos at fault. I hate that I cant get out

[theweakling]

Sometimes my inner monologue or the voice in my head is like "he's not good for you, you stupid bitch"

But then I also have nightmares where I try to reach out to him and he screams for me to get away from him bc I'm disgusting and crazy.

He also deleted his Grindr profile...so I guess he found a long term fwb.

 

[medic1]

In all honesty, after reading the entire thread what are you hoping to get from us? If you have seen 3 different therapists and not found any sort of resolution with them, then the great advice you are receiving here seems to be going in one ear, and straight out the other.

I think your problem is you just do not want to let go. As a matter of interest, are you getting some sort of perverse pleasure out of all this drama?

Do not be surprised if you suddenly find yourself presented with a court restraining order.

We all get that you were treated badly, but there are always at least two sides to every drama. You need to let go, for your own sanity if nothing else.

You have had some really great advice from other members, but you always seem to find an excuse somewhere along the line to disregard the help offered.

Until you can face this problem without making excuses, for both of your behaviours. Then you will only find yourself caught up in a never ending cycle of escalating drama.

I hope that you can in time see and understand this.

 

[eastofeden]

what did you do to the guy and how did he fuck you over?

I am gonna try to say it in as little words as possible. It is a long story and each part is kinda important to make the point....and I think it is an excellent point which is why I share it....too lazy to try to find it in the archives..

I had a toxic relationship......and let me tell you this...I was equally responsible...50% of the problem (as are you). It is NEVER all one person....and even when I was toxic I knew better than to trash the man because is really is tacky and embarrassing because most people understand that they only hear one side of any story.....and having had to listen to other people nightly trash the person they were with...it is very uncomfortable to listen to.

So...No one knew there was any drama and the thing was...I knew thousands of gay men as I worked in a nightclub and did so for 20 years. Most people knew we were a couple....that's it. I never spoke of him or "us" in my nightly conversations. To this day...the guy I have been with over 30 years...not a bad word have I ever said about him to anyone..and i never will. You might want to consider this option.....

So..things were very bad between us and basically I was about to leave him and he HATED that he lost the power and control he had over me.....it was a nasty relationship....neither of us were angels. so..one night on my way into work...there was a crowd cheering....he was fucking my arch enemy on the bar.... I was in shock about it and just went silent and inside myself. People came up to me to try to apologize or talk about it and I just pretended at first nothing happened and just do NOT bring it up.....and then came the sympathy and seeing me as a victim and I wanted to scream...

Why?...one of the things I did and one of the reasons I managed to work in that stressful environment successfully for 20 years..I developed personas to handle the chaos and bullshit that comes with the job..and I kept my personal life to myself. Gay men are wonderful..and they can also eat you up and spit you out just for sport.... any way you look at it...gay men are as tough a crowd as you will ever face...

...and the reason I have to say that..this is why he chose my workplace in front of everyone...he knew he was taking the wall I had down..my comfort zone...and the "drama" I hated...he threw me int he ring. Fucking asshole....

So.,...I felt very vulnerable and pissed off every time the sympathy poured in which was every five minutes and i just said I didn't want to talk about it.....

...and I thought about it for a little while and i had a EUREKA moment that pretty much changed me forever......

I came back and spoke about it for the first time and told everyone DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR ME...I AM NOT A VICTI,...I told them I knew he was an asshole the first week I was with him and that is exactly what attracted me to him. He was emotionally and psychologically a carbon copy of my abusive parents....though I certainly didn't make the connection until much later...

...snd that was the truth. I could have lied to myself and whined about how I was a victim until I made myself barf....but I wasn't. It was about who I was ..the reason I was with him...not about what "he did to me"....

...and I instantly became 1000x more emotionally smart and I attracted a much better man who was attracted to who I was and not what I looked like.

Like I was once...you are trapped by the lies you tell yourself and your attitude. You need to own both...and it will set you free. If you don't...you will rinse and repeat...

This whole thing with you and him is about you..not him. That is the bitter truth....but you can change that easily if you own it and move on.....

Life is full of surprises..twists and turns...and you can easily participate in them if you allow yourself the freedom from your own bullshit.

BTW...the guy didn't fuck me over really...I fucked myself over the moment i knew he was an asshole and decided I LUVED HIM...LOL

With what you have said so far...I am not really expecting my experience will help you in any way...but other people read these threads too so it might turn on a lightbulb for someone else...either way...is is you choice. You can take anything you like from it..or nothng at all...

I didn't tell you the details of the day to day toxic shit but it was far messier than anything you described so you are not the only one who has every experienced this. At one time...I was sure I would "die without him". OMG..I wish I could blame that humiliating thought on drugs
I hate even typing that but it is the truth..that is how fucked up I was....

You might want to try telling yourself the truth....

 

[theweakling]

In all honesty, after reading the entire thread what are you hoping to get from us? If you have seen 3 different therapists and not found any sort of resolution with them, then the great advice you are receiving here seems to be going in one ear, and straight out the other.

I think your problem is you just do not want to let go. As a matter of interest, are you getting some sort of perverse pleasure out of all this drama?

Do not be surprised if you suddenly find yourself presented with a court restraining order.

We all get that you were treated badly, but there are always at least two sides to every drama. You need to let go, for your own sanity if nothing else.

You have had some really great advice from other members, but you always seem to find an excuse somewhere along the line to disregard the help offered.

Until you can face this problem without making excuses, for both of your behaviours. Then you will only find yourself caught up in a never ending cycle of escalating drama.

I hope that you can in time see and understand this.

I mean...writing out my feelings as they come and go is a better alternative than getting him almost fired I guess. Its how I'm coping. Its not particularly healthy to obsess I guess...but at least I'm not stalking him or doing anything illegal. I don't know what I'm hoping to get out of this thread. Again, its like logically, I know what I should do but when these emotions and thoughts come around, its very hard not to get caught up in the feelings of hurt and not being good enough. My self esteem has never been great but its never been as bad as it is now.

and no, I do not get some perverse satisfaction out of drama. There is nothing more I would like than to be in a boring, monogamous relationship with this guy. If I was "addicted" to drama, I would think I would have had a lot more situations like these in my life but this is literally the first time anything like this has happened to me. This is the first time anyone has led me one and treated me this poorly. Other guys made it so much more abundantly clear when they only wanted sex...and those that did had much more common courtesy than this guy.

Another factor is that its the best sex I've ever had. It certainly doesnt help. It makes it so much harder for me to let go.

 

[medic1]

^There is a huge difference between best sex, and love.

As for not stalking him, of course you are. Checking his Grinder, sending texts, involving his workplace, need i go on?

You say that when these feelings come around, its very hard not to get caught up in the hurt. Change that last word to drama, and it would be a tiny step in the right direction.

Again, i hope you can in time see and understand this.

 

[theweakling]

^There is a huge difference between best sex, and love.

As for not stalking him, of course you are. Checking his Grinder, sending texts, involving his workplace, need i go on?

You say that when these feelings come around, its very hard not to get caught up in the hurt. Change that last word to drama, and it would be a tiny step in the right direction.

Again, i hope you can in time see and understand this.

I've literally had no contact with him since he mostly recently left me again. The incessant texts and involving his workplace were mistakes that happened in February. It's mostly me just moping and venting on the internet this time around

 

[sixthson]

I've literally had no contact with him since he mostly recently left me again. The incessant texts and involving his workplace were mistakes that happened in February. It's mostly me just moping and venting on the internet this time around

Fine, you've done that now. Time to get healthy. Start by finding out what you've learned and how not to let it happen again.

 

[G-Lexington]

Cutting him out of your life has left a void. Fill it. With something positive.

Lex

 

[theweakling]

I know what you're all going to say: That I'm hopeless and that I'm an idiot and a mess for not listening to everyones helpful advice and pressing the self destruct button

but I've been mulling this over in my head for the billionth time. Some things I've been thinking about:
-For the first time I've actually considered deleting and blocking his number. That isnt to say I've done it...but I've considered it. The reason being I've mapped out the different possibilities and scenarios and they all lead to me getting hurt again.

Scenario one: He messages me after some time and gives me the "I'm not looking for anything serious" speech. We fuck for a while and then he leaves me again when he gets bored or finds another Asian. I have another nervous breakdown and we're back where we started
Scenario two: I try to improve myself and become an idealized version of myself that MIGHT be good enough for him. I reach this point and I message him and he ignores me. I have another nervous breakdown because then it'll feel like I put in all this effort into trying to change myself and it still wasnt good enough.
Scenario three: I try to improve myself and become an idealized version of myself that MIGHT be good enough for him. I reach this point and I message him and he doesnt ignore me. We meet up for a while but then he ultimately leaves me in a few months when he gets bored with me. I have another nervous breakdown and we're back where we started.

That being said, part of me also wants to give it one final shot. One last chance. I'm going to give it one last shot. Regardless of whether he messages first or I message first...maybe if I lay down some ground rules at the beginning, it'll make a difference? If he can lay down ground rules like "no feelings" then maybe I can lay down something as simple as "you cant text me first and then go mia the second I text back because my time is important to me too. If you can no longer meet up you have to say so so that I can make other plans." Yes, I am essentially placing my life on hold but I will honestly give up on him if the final shot doesnt work out. Deep down I know it won't...I know he can never see me as relationship material but I just dont want to give up just yet. Then theres also the question of...I say that this is the final shot...whats to stop me from saying "...just another shot...one last shot" after this third attempt fails?


If I do message him first...which is a very likely scenario because I'm stubborn and stupid and delusional...how do you guys think I should approach it?
I find myself drafting out apologies like, "I hope you're not upset with me for asking you to pay me back for the poppers because it seemed unfair for me to be paying for something you would be using with other guys" and "I know we've both done and said terrible things to each other but I was hoping you could give me one last chance" and "I swear I'm a different person." The last two sound very needy.

I also want to be mentally prepared if he does ignore me...I feel like if I said something like "Yes because ignoring me instead of taking ten minutes to talk to me after all you've done to me didnt make me go off the deep end in February" sounds equally crazy and mildly threatening.

This is everyone reading this right now:

 

[TX-Beau]

You are using this to avoid doing anything to better yourself, you are using this to have a drama. You don't "love" him and you are using every stalker excuse in the book, we can't help you further, there is no point in advice since you won't hear it, go back to therapy.

I can't be clearer than that.

 

[SeaCore]

This is everyone reading this right now:

This actually isn't my reaction. You thinking that it is says far more about yourself and how you're feeling.
Would it be correct to say that you feel frustrated and like beating your head against a wall because that's something you can do?

Let's see if we can come at this from another angle. I'm thinking something that might be more radical, in the literal sense of the word.
It seems to me like loss of control is a big factor driving this frustration. You had something that made you feel so good and someone you really started to center your life around, and continue to kind of center your life around. But now that's gone and you're upset because it feels like your happiness is no longer in your control.

All of the things you've been suggesting you want to do seem to be about taking control of this guy, at least in some respect. Would you say that's correct?

 

[theweakling]

This actually isn't my reaction. You thinking that it is says far more about yourself and how you're feeling.
Would it be correct to say that you feel frustrated and like beating your head against a wall because that's something you can do?

Let's see if we can come at this from another angle. I'm thinking something that might be more radical, in the literal sense of the word.
It seems to me like loss of control is a big factor driving this frustration. You had something that made you feel so good and someone you really started to center your life around, and continue to kind of center your life around. But now that's gone and you're upset because it feels like your happiness is no longer in your control.

All of the things you've been suggesting you want to do seem to be about taking control of this guy, at least in some respect. Would you say that's correct?

I'm frustrated because I sound like how I imagine an addict would sound...like just a little more...just one time and I promise I'll quit.
I don't want to control him in the sense of I need him to be readily available when I say so...more like I'm frustrated because yes, it seems like there is nothing I can do to at the very least make him stop lying to me and toying with me and just treat me like a human being.

and no @TX-Beau, its not just me "being addicted to drama." I'm a skinny Asian slightly effeminate twink which I'm sure is like the equivalent of like the gay anti-christ. I will probably never find another white twink to be attracted to me. My options are limited to guys who think of me as a fetish. I'm frustrated because I'm envious of Asians who arent so brainwashed and white worshipping as I am because I'm such a fucking self hating internalized racism mess who craves validation from white guys.

 

[eastofeden]

Dude..you are a stalker....

The only thing you can do now that would help IMO is read the profile of a stalker and see if the lightbulb goes on....

It might explain why he avoids you BTW..

Here's some info for you from Web MD

https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/mind-stalker-why-torment-someone#1

The overwhelming majority of stalkers are men -- four to one, Zitek says. Psychiatrists have developed several stalker profiles:


The rejected stalker. This person was rejected in a relationship, and they perceive it as an insult, they feel wounded, and they are seeking vindication.

The resentful stalker. These are self-righteous, self-pitying people who may threaten, but they are the least likely to act on it.

The intimacy-seeking stalker. They believe they are loved or will be loved by the victim. Often they focus on someone of higher social status. This person is mentally ill and delusional.

The incompetent. This person is socially backward. He doesn't really understand the social rules involved in dating and romance. He doesn't mean any harm.

The predator. This is about sex gratification, control, and violence. The stalker doesn't necessarily know the victim. The victim may not know she is being stalked. But a predator plans their attack, rehearses it, has lots of sexual fantasies about it.

The rejected and predatory stalkers are most likely to assault their victims, says Zitek.

In many scenarios, the stalking begins as a relationship is ending -- a divorce or breakup, says Moore. One partner becomes obsessed, convinced that this is their ideal partner. The stalker may believe that the victim is in love with him or her.

Here's something else to consider: Are you a stalker? If you see this obsessive pattern in yourself, see a therapist or join a support group like Co-Dependents Anonymous, he says. "A lot of times, stalkers have addiction issues. They may be drinking or doing drugs. It's important for them to reach out. But they also have to reach in -- admit something is going on, get to a therapist or support group so they don't feel all alone."

I honestly think you need to see this.

You really need to let this go and then pull yourself out of this spiral.....

You can do it.....

 

[theweakling]

Erm how I am I stalker if I have literally no contact with him?

I'm obsessed obviously but I'm only asking about how I should approach him one last time if in fact there comes a time where I've significantly improved myself enough to be good enough for him. That's it. That might be years from now. Who knows.

 

[theweakling]

"It might explain why he avoids you BTW.."

Before he ended things again on Black Friday, he initiated contact with me first not the other way around. He initiated contact with me just as much as I did with him and I tried to avoid contacting him first as much as possible as not to give off the impression that I was being needy.

 

[SeaCore]

Erm how I am I stalker if I have literally no contact with him?

I'm obsessed obviously but I'm only asking about how I should approach him one last time if in fact there comes a time where I've significantly improved myself enough to be good enough for him. That's it. That might be years from now. Who knows.

Should've been "he's significantly improved himself to be good enough for me" 'cause whether you 'improve' or not they aren't good enough for you now.

What exactly do you mean by improving? There's a lot to improve on, pretty much with anyone, but what do you see that as being?

 

[eastofeden]

Erm how I am I stalker if I have literally no contact with him?

I'm obsessed obviously but I'm only asking about how I should approach him one last time if in fact there comes a time where I've significantly improved myself enough to be good enough for him. That's it. That might be years from now. Who knows.

The light bulb didn't go on....so I have nothing else.

One can lead a horse to water..but cannot make him drink....

I have been on both sides of that equation in my life....so I know it's true.

Good Luck!

 

[Cormac135]

I've a horrible feeling we're all being taken for a ride here.

 

[theweakling]

Should've been "he's significantly improved himself to be good enough for me" 'cause whether you 'improve' or not they aren't good enough for you now.

What exactly do you mean by improving? There's a lot to improve on, pretty much with anyone, but what do you see that as being?

Getting a better job. Getting a bigger ass. Getting more friends and being more social.

- - - Updated - - -

I've a horrible feeling we're all being taken for a ride here.

Because I'm so over the top and dramatic? Yea I know I am

 

[SeaCore]

Hm, seems like some good goals.
Why the better job in particular? Are you wanting to do something with the money that ya can't right now? Or is it more striving for a better work environment type of thing?