Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[ravenstone]

[Quoted Text: Removed] © 2024 One.in Digitech Media Pvt. Ltd. All Rights Reserved

Ukraine Confronts Difficult Choices as U.S. Acknowledges Need for Negotiations with Russia Amid Hypersonic Missile Threats (ONEINDIA; November 27, 2024)

 

[rareboy]

You haven't been reading the thread I guess.

Of course with Putin's [Text: Removed], Trump in the White House, rrrZZZia gets everything it wants because Trump is not a negotiator and still hates Ukraine and Zelensky.

Putin and Trump had an accord dating back to 2019 that RRRRzzzia would be allowed to invade and take the Donbass and southern Ukraine and the US wouldn't interfere.

There's no mystery here. Trump wants to be an autocrat and an oligarch. It is exactly the system he is getting ready to put in place in the US.

 

[rareboy]

rrrzzzxia has violated

UN Charter '45
Nuclear NPT '70
Helsinki Accords '75
Paris Charter '90
Belovezha Accords '92
Budapest Memo '94
Black Sea Fleet Treaty '97
Friendship Treaty '98
Treaty on Azov Sea & Kerch Strait ‘03
Karkiv pact '10



But Trump's deal is the one that will work

 

[rareboy]

You haven't been reading the thread I guess.

Of course with Putin's [Text: Removed], Trump in the White House, rrrZZZia gets everything it wants because Trump is not a negotiator and still hates Ukraine and Zelensky.

Putin and Trump had an accord dating back to 2019 that RRRRzzzia would be allowed to invade and take the Donbass and southern Ukraine and the US wouldn't interfere.

There's no mystery here. Trump wants to be an autocrat and an oligarch. It is exactly the system he is getting ready to put in place in the US.

I suppose I should have said 'Lap Dog'.

 

[ravenstone]

You haven't been reading the thread I guess.

Of course with Putin's [Text: Removed], Trump in the White House, rrrZZZia gets everything it wants because Trump is not a negotiator and still hates Ukraine and Zelensky.

Putin and Trump had an accord dating back to 2019 that RRRRzzzia would be allowed to invade and take the Donbass and southern Ukraine and the US wouldn't interfere.

There's no mystery here. Trump wants to be an autocrat and an oligarch. It is exactly the system he is getting ready to put in place in the US.

I suppose I should have said 'Lap Dog'.

A lot of people are not willing to risk WW3 over an area that was mostly Russian-speaking people to begin with. I wonder did Ukraine break any treaties by attack their own people in Donetsk?

 

[Danash]

A lot of people are not willing to risk WW3 over an area that was mostly Russian-speaking people to begin with. I wonder did Ukraine break any treaties by attack their own people in Donetsk?

They werent. All this is plain BS. Part of the russian natrative. Yes, there were clashes, yes russian speaking Ukranians fell victim to violence. And yes, Ukranian nationalists did some nasty things. But overall we saw an invasion of russian elite forces in disguise. And most of the russian speaking Ukranians opposed the events of 2014. And the numbers of 15 000 dead that so often are presented as russian speakers killed by Ukraine are fake. The 15 000 are all casualties between 2014 and feb. 2022, including killed troops on both sides.

 

[rareboy]

A lot of people are not willing to risk WW3 over an area that was mostly Russian-speaking people to begin with. I wonder did Ukraine break any treaties by attack their own people in Donetsk?

This is such a meaningless and ridiculous justification.

The prinicpal language of Quebec is French. Does that give France the right to take it from Canada?

One of the resons that people in the east speak rrrzzian is because the Soviet Union flooded Ukraine and Crimea with rrrXXXianz. All across Ukraine, there are multi-lingual people who speak both Ukrainian and Rzzian.

You are just spouting worn out Kremlin talking points and lies they used to justify their invasions of 2014 and 2022 to ill informed westerners.

 

[ravenstone]

They werent. All this is plain BS. Part of the russian natrative. Yes, there were clashes, yes russian speaking Ukranians fell victim to violence. And yes, Ukranian nationalists did some nasty things. But overall we saw an invasion of russian elite forces in disguise. And most of the russian speaking Ukranians opposed the events of 2014. And the numbers of 15 000 dead that so often are presented as russian speakers killed by Ukraine are fake. The 15 000 are all casualties between 2014 and feb. 2022, including killed troops on both sides.

Well, if Trump's peace plan is turned down by Ukraine and the EU, he needs to make it clear to European countries that they are on their own if they start crap with Russia. The US should step in if a NATO country is attacked if they didn't start it.

 

[Danash]

This is such a meaningless and ridiculous justification.

The prinicpal language of Quebec is French. Does that give France the right to take it from Canada?

One of the resons that people in the east speak rrrzzian is because the Soviet Union flooded Ukraine and Crimea with rrrXXXianz. All across Ukraine, there are multi-lingual people who speak both Ukrainian and Rzzian.

You are just spouting worn out Kremlin talking points and lies they used to justify their invasions of 2014 and 2022 to ill informed westerners.

Also, many russian speakers in Ukraine were disgusted by the events, so they switched language to Ukranian, even at home with their own family. No region in Ukraine supported the russian invasion, not even Donbass. The ”referendums” afterwards were rigged all of them. This has been confirmed even by the FSB soldiers leading the invasion.

 

[Danash]

Well, if Trump's peace plan is turned down by Ukraine and the EU, he needs to make it clear to European countries that they are on their own if they start crap with Russia. The US should step in if a NATO country is attacked if they didn't start it.

What peace plan? Would the US give Alaska away?

 

[ravenstone]

What peace plan? Would the US give Alaska away?

The first part is to get Putin and Zelenskyy and Kellogg to sit down and start negotiations. They both can be forced to begin talks. I think that is a good starting point.

 

[Danash]

The first part is to get Putin and Zelenskyy and Kellogg to sit down and start negotiations. They both can be forced to begin talks. I think that is a good starting point.

Negotiations about what? Seriously?

 

[rareboy]

Well, if Trump's peace plan is turned down by Ukraine and the EU, he needs to make it clear to European countries that they are on their own if they start crap with Russia. The US should step in if a NATO country is attacked if they didn't start it.

Again...the lack of understanding and awareness and complicity with babbling Kremlin talking points is breath-taking.

And frankly, I don't believe it is accidental or co-incidental that you keep running with this narrative.

rrrzzzia is the country that invaded a soveriegn neighbouring country. With tanks and soldiers, and committed genocide. They have done this repeatedly in Europe since 1917.

The US and the West have consistently shown weakness and cowardice in pushing rrrZZia back inside its borders and allowing the states that democratically voted to leave the horrific Soviet Union to survive a constant onslaught of fascism not based on ideology or language or any of the nonsense you keep repeating but quite simply and literally to seize the natural resources of the countries invaded and to flood them with western rrrZZZianz in order to hold the territory they steal.

 

[Danash]

Again...the lack of understanding and awareness and complicity with babbling Kremlin talking points is breath-taking.

And frankly, I don't believe it is accidental or co-incidental that you keep running with this narrative.

rrrzzzia is the country that invaded a soveriegn neighbouring country. With tanks and soldiers, and committed genocide. They have done this repeatedly in Europe since 1917.

The US and the West have consistently shown weakness and cowardice in pushing rrrZZia back inside its borders and allowing the states that democratically voted to leave the horrific Soviet Union to survive a constant onslaught of fascism not based on ideology or language or any of the nonsense you keep repeating but quite simply and literally to seize the natural resources of the countries invaded and to flood them with western rrrZZZianz in order to hold the territory they steal.

Exactly. The West promised to defend the Ukranian borders in exchange of surrendering the nukes to russia. The so called Nato expansion in the east was made bcs the ex Warczaw pact countries knew russia would be back. We blocked Ukraine and Georgia in 2008 from heading for membership. Now both are fighting for their independence. russia is the cancer of Europe and all the vatniks in the West are genocide enablers and useful idiots. They dont grasp that russia of today is Nazi Germany 2,0…

 

[pigface]

Well, if Trump's peace plan is turned down by Ukraine and the EU, he needs to make it clear to European countries that they are on their own if they start crap with Russia. The US should step in if a NATO country is attacked if they didn't start it.

Why would a trump peace plan likely be better or more logical than anything else he has ever proposed?

 

[rareboy]

Why would a trump peace plan likely be better or more logical than anything else he has ever proposed?

It will be an utterly transactional plan designed to ensure that he and his cabal literally profit from forcing Ukraine to cede approximately 7 trillion dollars in resources in the Donbas and Azov.

It will also cement the principle that any fascist regime is entitled to invade a sovereigh state and to hold the territory. China is breathlessly waiting for permission to seize Taiwan, Israel to formally annex Gaza and rrrzia to move on to a full scale takeover of Georgia and possibly Khazakstan.

 

[ravenstone]

Russia is saying they will be willing to make concessions with the upcoming talks. Trump can make Ukraine come to the talks with the threat of cutting off all aid.

 

[rareboy]

Again, you haven't really researched anything, just parroting Kremlin talking points.

They will make no concessions. They have decalred they will keep the territory they occupy and will not allow Ukraine to join NATO.

What concessions are you privy to that they will make and promises they would actually keep after abbrogating the terms of one treaty and agreement after another for years now.

Oh. And provide actual credible links for your assertions.

And yeah..we know that Trump can force the issue by demonstrating that the US is not a credible partner in protecting Europe and democracy. And he will. Because I have already explained repeatedly but most recently in the post above yours.

 

[Danash]

Russia is saying they will be willing to make concessions with the upcoming talks. Trump can make Ukraine come to the talks with the threat of cutting off all aid.

First: The only concession russia can make is leaving the Ukranian territory within the borders of 1991. Second: The idea of Trump cutting off aid to Ukraine is really punish the victim. You have got this war totally wrong. russia invaded Ukraine with the goal of exterminating the culture, the intellectuals, the veterans, the political class, the Ukranian speakers. Totally exterminate. We talk millions of dead. Pure nazi methods. You support that. What does that say about you?

 

[rareboy]

First: The only concession russia can make is leaving the Ukranian territory within the borders of 1991. Second: The idea of Trump cutting off aid to Ukraine is really punish the victim. You have got this war totally wrong. russia invaded Ukraine with the goal of exterminating the culture, the intellectuals, the veterans, the political class, the Ukranian speakers. Totally exterminate. We talk millions of dead. Pure nazi methods. You support that. What does that say about you?

I think you'll find millions of Americans who really don't care...much as we saw in the 1930's up to 1942.

And all the Trumpists have been brainwashed with a steady stream of Kremlin propaganda, financed by the Kremlin but happily disseminated by Xitter, FOX and other right wing media.

They are utterly self-interested, protected by their belief that they live in Fortress America but scared utterly itless because they think Uncle Joe through Putin will lob a nuke right at their hometown. It is what allowed the Soviets to invade Europe after 1945, seize half of it and hold it until the 80's

And you have to bear in mind that many Americans of both party affiliations seem to be utterly comfortable with a genocide being carried out by a country they supply with weapons in Gaza at the moment.