So heres the dillemna

[Andreus]

The doc says i have to gain weight before the harsh new england winter begins, but in five days Ramadan will begin.

for those of you that dont know, this is the time when, for reasons i wont go into right now, Muslims dont eat anything or drink anything while the sun shines above us.

My doctor has strongly urged me to not follow the fast this year, and has reminded me that extremely ill people are forgiven for not fasting but has said that he cannot interfere with my religious choices and stated that he knows that the interpretation of that freedom from fasting is a very personal one for all muslims that he cares for... and he implied that if lost weight instead of gained it during this time, he would put me in the hospital as an inpatient to feed me Intravenously.

I dont believe that this is allowed either during ramadan, though

so .... it sounds alot like he is trying to interfere with my beliefs to me, even though he says he wont. His opinion on the topic is unavoidable and obvious.

there are certain things that could excuse me from the fast this year, but i am not one to do that... the benefits of it are very important to me this time.

so i have five days to make a very big choice...

where do i draw the line?

what does this all mean?

My brother is very angry about all of this right now because he assumes i will be stubborn and fast... and i guess he is kind of right as far as that goes

that seems to be what i am feeling i need to do

 

[neruda]

Yes its a dillemma
Search within yourself
Our answers cannot make a difference and should not

But since you opened a thread I would counsel wisdom

 

[Scrub]

Your beliefs are yours to own and follow as you are comfortable with. That part of the choice is yours.

Your physician is responsible for your health and if your weight loss becomes unsafe in any way he is obligated to do what he needs to.

I hope you can figure this out to your best interest.

 

[J-23]

Why not just eat a lot after sundown?

 

[mark1111]

How long is Ramadan? A month? No eating (or smoking, drinking, sex etc...) from sunup till sunset. No problem. Have a big meal before the sun comes up, and another at sunset. Snack all during the night. I know you were pretty ill for a while, are you working? Can you have a nocturnal schedule? You know, sleep during the day? That way you can put some weight on.

Best of luck to you

 

[treanir]

I know how important Ramadan is for Muslims and of how much importance health is to virtually everyone. Makes it all the more difficult when the two clash.

Isn't there a religious leader you can talk to? Maybe they can give some more insight (or help you make a decision)?

 

[Shepherd 2]

I believe your brother's name is Mitri. He knows Andreus well, and he loves him without condition. His love for you has been made evident to many of us JUBbers during this illness. I know you love him.

We know that you are a man of principle. Some will tell you to put the principles aside for your health. I will tell you to follow your heart, for my good sense wants to cuff you along side the head and insist that you do as the doctor says. But that is not Andreus is it?

Whatever you do, I support you. Blessings upon you in this holy season coming up.
Shep+

 

[gmoney]

The last thing I want to hear is you being in the hospital again, Dreu. It is ultimately your decision to make. I agree about eating substantially at night. Maybe this way you can follow your beliefs and not lose weight. I wish you the best.

 

[Andreus]

I thought you're allowed to makeup the days missed during Ramadan, if you're ill.

the quran defines illness as bleeding of some sort, which is why menstrual women are also excused from the fast....

and i am not bleeding

the only other thing the koran mentions is a chronic illness that you do not expect to ever recover from.... or on a journey of some sort

i dont see how my situation is applicable

it does not offer the option of avioding the fast to avoid illness... only to not fast IF you are currently sick with an incurable illness...

Yasser Arrafat faced this one and we all know what happened to him

 

[provenlogic]

Follow your doctor's orders, seek forgiveness later. The number one issue is your health. NEVER neglect your health like that, if you need to gain weight, that is more important than observing the religious event, and as you said, this counts as something that is forgiven, as it is extenuating circumstances.

Remember, if he believes you are being a detriment to yourself, he can have you admitted to an inpatient facility, with or without your permission, and force you to gain weight. Just, avoid that, that's not something you want to fool with. Don't see it as a threat, he's trying to do what's best for you. Don't observe the traditions this year, you will be forgiven. And next year when you have gained weight, you can observe again.

Do you really belive god want's you to become seriously ill just to observe this tradition? If you don't belive he wants that for you, then don't you belive that he will forgive you?

 

[Andreus]

Follow your doctor's orders, seek forgiveness later. The number one issue is your health. NEVER neglect your health like that, if you need to gain weight, that is more important than observing the religious event, and as you said, this counts as something that is forgiven, as it is extenuating circumstances.

Remember, if he believes you are being a detriment to yourself, he can have you admitted to an inpatient facility, with or without your permission, and force you to gain weight. Just, avoid that, that's not something you want to fool with. Don't see it as a threat, he's trying to do what's best for you. Don't observe the traditions this year, you will be forgiven. And next year when you have gained weight, you can observe again.

interesting

would it suprise you to find out that you have entered into a muslim logic loop? and the heart of my personal issue this time.....

the way to insure forgiveness of a wrong is to fast for ramadan without fail....

and that is of great importance to people that may or may not make it to another ramadan

 

[Andreus]

I know how important Ramadan is for Muslims and of how much importance health is to virtually everyone. Makes it all the more difficult when the two clash.

Isn't there a religious leader you can talk to? Maybe they can give some more insight (or help you make a decision)?

unfortunately as an Ijtihadist i have to make that choice for myself.... its the nature of my 'sect' as you guys would call it.

 

[Jeimuzu]

I'd personally agree with DutchECK. Find a religious leader, tell him of your illnesses, and of your doctor's advice, and ask what you should do. EDIT: Too quick for me.

Or, turn nocturnal.

Hey, wait, I'm not sure of the accuracy of what I'm quoting (it's from Wiki), but...

"Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed, providing guidance for the people, clear teachings, and the statute book. Those of you who witness this month shall fast therein. Those who are ill or traveling may substitute the same number of other days. Allah wishes for you convenience, not hardship, that you may fulfill your obligations, and to glorify Allah for guiding you, and to express your appreciation."[2:185]

 

[provenlogic]

interesting

would it suprise you to find out that you have entered into a muslim logic loop? and the heart of my personal issue this time.....

the way to insure forgiveness of a wrong is to fast for ramadan without fail....

and that is of great importance to people that may or may not make it to another ramadan

I added another line after you quoted I think perhaps you should be introspective, and seek within yourself whether or not you belive that god will forgive you for choosing not to become seriously ill over this, regardless of the strict rules of this time for muslims. I don't claim to know how strictly you belive in the "letter of the law" so to speak, but if you have even the slightest inclination that the Qur'an is a guideline to follow, and not a strict code that can never be wavered from, i think you'd find that god would be more than willing to forgive you this on this occasion.

 

[Andreus]

How long is Ramadan? A month? No eating (or smoking, drinking, sex etc...) from sunup till sunset. No problem. Have a big meal before the sun comes up, and another at sunset. Snack all during the night. I know you were pretty ill for a while, are you working? Can you have a nocturnal schedule? You know, sleep during the day? That way you can put some weight on.

Best of luck to you

ramadan is a month...

no drinking as an always thing for muslims... no smoking of any sort is a ramadan thing, as well as erotic images.... those are also off for ramadan

as piggy asked.... that doesnt even begin to cover the medication issues involved

nocturnal existence is an option i believe.... and i may consider that.... but to me it feels like cheating

 

[GL]

the quran defines illness as bleeding of some sort, which is why menstrual women are also excused from the fast....

and i am not bleeding

the only other thing the koran mentions is a chronic illness that you do not expect to ever recover from.... or on a journey of some sort

i dont see how my situation is applicable

it does not offer the option of avioding the fast to avoid illness... only to not fast IF you are currently sick with an incurable illness...

Yasser Arrafat faced this one and we all know what happened to him

dreu, forgive me for being blunt but you are in a chronic illness. one that i fully expect that you will recover not to mention the fact that this illness of yours is in fact a journey.

at the end of the day this will be your choice to make, but i hope that you will consider that as i don't want to see you in the hospital again. i can't imagine that allah/god would forsake you for being mindful of your health and well being.

 

[Andreus]

I'd personally agree with DutchECK. Find a religious leader, tell him of your illnesses, and of your doctor's advice, and ask what you should do. EDIT: Too quick for me.

Or, turn nocturnal.

Hey, wait, I'm not sure of the accuracy of what I'm quoting (it's from Wiki), but...

that quote is not really applicable for me.... it just says what i would have to do IF i am incurably ill or bleeding...

first i have to be one of those two things....

dunno

lots to think about

 

[gmoney]

nocturnal existence is an option i believe.... and i may consider that.... but to me it feels like cheating

I don't understand. How is this "cheating"? You said yourself, fasting is from sun up 'til sundown.

 

[provenlogic]

ramadan is a month...

no drinking as an always thing for muslims... no smoking of any sort is a ramadan thing, as well as erotic images.... those are also off for ramadan

as piggy asked.... that doesnt even begin to cover the medication issues involved

nocturnal existence is an option i believe.... and i may consider that.... but to me it feels like cheating

I'd just hate to see you forced into an inpatient facility and to have food and medicine forced on you, i really don't think that's an option you want to deal with? Correct? In all seriousness though, it is REALLY something that your doctor could do, and might even be likely if you become the slightest bit ill or lose weight. That would multiply your angst over this ten-fold would it not?

This is a situation where you have, to use the satirical phrase, choose the lesser of two evils. But may i ask if you are here looking for a way to justify to yourself that it is ok to follow your doctor's orders? Or are you here to justify the opposite? Or is it something else? In which case, i have to ask, what would make you feel comfortable in following your doctors orders? Is there anything? If there is, how do we get you to that point?

Another phrase i think is worth mentioning here... Don't forsake the spirit of the law for the letter of the law. Remember, ultimately it's what god intended, not what was written down, that really matters. And it's up to you to decide what he intended.

 

[Txgoodoldboy]

I think you need to use some "common sense". God gave us knowledge (a brain) for times like this. You know, the best thing for you, is to eat and stay healthy. I don't think God would ask someone to do something that is detrimental to their body. I would think God would want you to take care of your body.

Also, I think I would look at the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law.

the only other thing the koran mentions is a chronic illness that you do not expect to ever recover from....

I would think there would be "gay friendly" scholars that could help you with this.

Praying that God will guide and comfort you.