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Survivor 20: Heroes Vs. Villains [Official Thread]

Yeah, I looked it up and Cirie did indeed win a car for being the fan favorite during Exile Island. At least America got it right that year.

So in other news I got into an argument with Russtard on another forum. He declared that Russell played a spectacular game both seasons and when I pointed out all of the flaws in Russell's social game he claimed I was being one-note and that most of the jury members from Samoa have said they would have voted for Russell if they could do it over again. :rolleyes: I guess Russell's delusions extend to his fanbase. He then claimed that the top 5 Survivor players were Russell, Hatch, Parvati, Sandra and Boston Rob. I immediately thought to myself "What about Cirie? What about Cesternino? Can Boston Rob really be considered a top 5 player when he's played three times and made it to the jury phase only once and lost that time too?" and neglected to waste my time replying. To his credit, at least he didn't ignore Parvati, Rob and Sandra's games for daring to go against the "master."
 
^^ I think the fact that this person's moniker conflates "Russell" and "Retard" says it all.
 
Haha, that was my nickname for him, I just forgot to put in an "a" before Russtard.

Anyway, apparently this is the recap that will air with the finale tomorrow:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOog0GblXIE[/ame]

The title of the finale is also "Anything Could Happen." After watching the preview and how it's mostly about Sandra vs. Russell, I'm amazed that they just didn't name the finale "Even Sandra Could Win!"

Also, guys, if Parvati or Sandra wins tomorrow, do you think it is fair to call either one the best player ever? Sandra in particular will have accomplished the feat of going 2-0 in Survivor, not to take away from Parvati's potential 2-1 record.
 
Well

Sandra is a particular kinda player. She's manipulative, and knows how to talk to people. SHe's good coz she knows how to lie and what to do to win. So you could say she's a good player but not a good strategist.

Parvarti is a good player coz she's aggressive. Her whole strategy is about flirting. She flirts with girls, with boys, with coconuts, with jeff, with everyone (even with us). When it comes to challenges parvarti plays to win !! she's not competing to loose, she's there to win every challenges and thats what she does. Moreover she know when and how to use people and be a good strategist.


Both of em are equally good players, competitors, and competing to win the title (and the million bucks)
Both of em can win for the second time.

IMO Sandra and Parvarti are the best players to ever played this game (there's few others but the gals are on top).
And if one of em win H.Vs.V I'll consider her as the best player outlasting, outwitting and ouplaying the other one
 
For a long time I considered Cirie the best player of all time. And I still think she's up there, but there's no denying results, and the fact is -- out of three tries -- Cirie has never even made it to the finals once.

Your question is an intriguing one slipintothefog. I think one could make a case for both Parvati or Sandra at this point. I myself though would be more willing to give that title to Sandra. She plays a more under the radar game than Parvati, but it's a better play in my opinion.

Parvati made some moves that ultimately paid off (like giving Sandra and Jerri her idols) but the move itself was highly risky, and not something I'd necessarily say was "smart." Also, the intended outcome of the move -- that it would solidify the Villains, help stomp out the Heroes, and keep Jerri and Sandra tied to her -- didn't always work. I also don't understand why she told Amanda at the merge that she had an idol, since it would directly contradict Russell's story then, a story that (at that time) benefited Parvati's alliance. If she was trying to oust Russell that would be one thing, but she clearly wasn't so revealing it was just...not smart. Once again she got lucky in that the Heroes wither didn't believe her or were too dumb to add one and one to see that Russell was lying. Parvati is an excellent player, don't get me wrong, but she's not flawless. Cirie made most of the awesome moves on Micronesia, all of which Parvati benefited from (I'd say Parvati was the second best player that season) and this time around, Parvati made some good moves, but also some temerities.

But Sandra is the opposite. Her moves have all been good. It's not her fault that she was working with idiots. Had Tyson not been an idiot, Boston Rob's alliance would likely have remained dominant on the Villains and Russell could be gone before the merge; had the Heroes not been idiots and listened to Sandra initially, they'd have the majority and Russell could have been eliminated right away at the merge; had Candice not been an idiot and listened to Sandra, things might have turned out differently for even Candice, and the Villains could have been on the defensive, ultimately leading to (you guessed it) Russell's elimination, and so on and so forth.

And I mean, the fact that Sandra has outright made it clear that she is against Russell (even to Russell himself) both with actions all season long, and then last week, with words, and STILL she's managed to stay in the game and part of his alliance, is fucking badass (and not because of an idol either -- Russell voted out Rupert this week, so Sandra was safe anyway).

If she wins -- and I think she will -- I'd be willing to call Sandra the best player.
 
Also, on an entertainment level, Sandra is no Courtney but she's high up there in my book. Some of my favorite lines this season have come from Sandra. For example, I laughed out loud when she voice-overed that she was going to get back Russell "for Rob, for Tyson, for Courtney and...well I don't really care about Coach but I'll stick him on there too."

I would watch a show with Sandra and Courtney.
 
It's harder to gauge Cirie now, but I'd still lean toward her being one of the best, though maybe not THE best. She was excellent on her first playthrough despite being a challenge liability. And she went into Micronesia as a known threat but she STILL managed to go far and even finish a spot better than she did in Exile Island. Micronesia randomly having a Final 2 instead of a Final 3 was just awful and robbed us as viewers and, much worse, Cirie as a player. Her past resume as a threat caught up to her in HvV and it took a freaking Hidden Immunity Idol to get her out.

Compare her with Rob C. from Amazon, who is probably the most appropriate comparison to Cirie based on perception by other players/placing in their first season. Rob came up just short on Amazon, and his past status as a strategic powerhouse got him eliminated early on in All-Stars. Cirie was regarded as one of the best strategic players of all time and she still managed to overcome that on Micronesia and, if idols weren't around, there's a very good chance she could have done it again this season. Who would have won Micronesia if Cirie faced the jury is unknown but there's a good chance she could have if not for that last-minute screwjob.

If Sandra wins, I would have to declare her Survivor's best player so far. Some people have always tried to diminish Sandra as a winner in Pearl Islands, and to some extent I can see why. Once the Final 3 came around, she had nothing to do with Lill winning the final challenge and hating Fairplay so much that she decided to take Sandra instead. And Sandra had an easy job against Lill, who had already lost the game. However, her winning this season would prove why Sandra is great. Hatch couldn't win twice. Tina, Ethan and Jenna couldn't win twice, and Tom and J.T. didn't by failing to win this season. Amber and Parvati had already lost once before each had won. Sandra would be the first person to ever win twice and that's saying a LOT considering winners are always huge targets in seasons with returning players.

She plays a subtle game, one that lacks the smoke and mirrors that Parvati or Russell had, but she is exceptionally talented at reading people and then using her status as a fluid vote to further her own game. She knows when to hang back and let the bigger players go after each other, and the Coach boot in HvV and the Burton boot in PI demonstrate that she knows when to make game-changing moves when necessary. Eleven seasons before J.T. did, Sandra was very close to playing the first perfect game in Survivor history, as she never got a vote against her throughout Pearl Islands and she only lost Tijuana's vote to Lill in the final Tribal Council. Then she went something like 34 days in HvV without getting a single vote against her despite being a HUGE challenge liability and also being a FORMER WINNER. Clearly she is doing something right.
 
If either Sandra or Parvati wins I will be more than willing to call them the best player ever. Sandra would be more likely considered the best player ever if she wins for the fact that she would have won both seasons she was on, both times being at a disadvantage and still coming out on top. Parvati played three times and would have won twice if she wins this time, but that one lose will still linger. But they both are in my top players list, I never would have thought a winner would make it this far, but we have two winners on the final five and both of them have a really good shot at winning.
 
These are the fan counts on CBS.com as of this morning. I only post this because it gives us a glimpse into where America is leaning as far as the fan favorite vote is concerned:

1. Rupert Boneham (Pearl Islands, All-Stars) - 2535 fans
2. Russell Hantz (Samoa) - 2091 fans
3. J.T. Thomas (Tocantins) - 1972 fans
4. Rob Mariano (Marquesas, All-Stars) - 1824 fans
5. James Clement (China, Micronesia) - 1803 fans
6. Colby Donaldson (Australia, All-Stars) - 1691 fans
7. Stephenie LaGrossa (Palau, Guatemala) - 1205 fans
8. Tom Westman (Palau) - 1203 fans
9. Jessica "Sugar" Kiper (Gabon) - 1046 fans
10. Cirie Fields (Panama, Micronesia) - 1001 fans
11. Amanda Kimmel (China, Micronesia) - 929 fans
12. Parvati Shallow (Cook Islands, Micronesia) - 895 fans
13. Jerri Manthey (Australia, All-Stars) - 829 fans
14. Courtney Yates (China) - 500 fans
15. Sandra Diaz-Twine (Pearl Islands) - 489 fans
16. Ben "Coach" Wade (Tocantins) - 458 fans
17. Tyson Apostol (Tocantins) - 456 fans
18. Candice Woodcock (Cook Islands) - 414 fans
19. Danielle DiLorenzo (Panama) - 347 fans
20. Randy Bailey (Gabon) - 201 fans
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people became "fans" before James and J.T. had massive heel turns. But considering Sandra is still VERY low this far into the season, I think we can rule her out as a possibility, unfortunately. Between Rupert and Russell, I hope Rupert wins... god, I can't believe I just said that. Boston Rob would have been a possibility but he's been out for so long and America is usually most influenced by the episode just before the finale. (See also Brett coming in third for Samoa's fan fave poll.)

On Facebook, Russell has the most fans, followed by Rupert, Sandra (I am one of her fans <3) and Parvati.
 
Kensei said:
Paravti deserves it, I'd love to see Sandra get it, and I would love to see everyone's face if Jerri won it, which I don't think she will.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind if Jeri won...as it's not useless/pussy Colby. I'm still mad that he wouldn't back Candice (I believe it was her) up when she figured out Danielle had the clue to the HII.
 
I don't care who wins, as long as it ain't the troll.
 
LiquidSky said:
I wouldn't mind if Jeri won...as it's not useless/pussy Colby. I'm still mad that he wouldn't back Candice (I believe it was her) up when she figured out Danielle had the clue to the HII.
Click to expand...

It would be stupid to take Jerri to the final three though, because the other two (whomever they may be) wouldn't win against her.

Definitely a Sandra-win...
 
I'd be fine with Sandra or Jerri winning...even Parvati. Not Russell nor Colby. Colby is useless...doesn't deserve it and Russell is just so smug that I don't want him to win, even though he probably deserves to.
 
You know, if I were Colby, I would pretend that sucking at challenges and playing like a non-threatening loser was my strategy the whole time. I mean, he came into this game with a HUGE target on his back and he managed to be the last person on his tribe. Can you imagine if he'd had the brains and the balls to intentionally throw challenges, act pathetic, and pull that off?
 
God I hope Sandra wins now EVEN MORE after that obnoxious comment from Russell. The fact that he STILL thinks she "hasn't played" and is "just there" along for the ride just proves that he doesn't know what makes a great player. He's as deluded as ever. I hope while watching back this season he saw how much he was outplayed by Parvati and Sandra.
 
The finale was like déjà vu. It ended almost exactly like last season did.

And no Russell, America (viewers) should not get to vote. They are not there playing the game. They are not there getting played by a dick like you. They only see what the editors let them see. All the other players see everything; so only they deserve to vote. A viewer favorite is not the same as being the Survivor winner. Viewers like you because you are funny, controversial, and have an "interesting" personality. But that does not mean you should win. Maybe you can audition for American Idol.
 
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