System That Chums The Water – SPLIT II

[Anders123]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

Setting aside the low effort interjections, I see a discussion, not drama.

Then again, everybody is entitled to view the world in their own way.

 

[G-Lexington]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

JUB is starting to resemble the Soup to me. I go into threads and see people - only some of whom I recognize - being snarky with each other. I see angry words and hurt feelings and clutched pearls and tear-stained faces and running off-frame with hands over mouths. And I can't say as I understand it. I laugh in that universal "I have no idea what's going on" sort of way, then change stations. I've been told that taht was extremely heartless, and that I don't get it because I haven't watched the whole show. Perhaps so, but I can say with certainty that I'm not interested in seeing more of that particular plot arc. I'll be in the kitchen getting a sandwich, then maybe out by the hot tub if you need me.

Lex

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

Would you mind elaborating on which you endorse and which you don't? Even if it's just you speaking personally and not as an admin. I think my point about infractions was probably the weakest and least substantiated because, as zoltanspawn mentioned, I don't have access to enough information. Jason is one of my absolute dearest friends though, and I was speaking partly out of frustration. I was just thinking of cgymike in particular. He posted for months, or perhaps even years, and 90% of it was blatant insults directed at other members. It wasn't even the slightly more subtle taunting/poking I've been talking about, he would just insult people out of the blue on a daily basis. It wasn't until he literally spammed the front page of Hot Topics with accusatory threads directed at the mods that he was banned. It should have been done months before that, especially if infractions serve a purpose, and especially if Jason received one for what he posted the other day.

I also believe there are other active members who should receive infractions regularly for the things they post, but that goes back to my point about the CoC. I just don't think it covers what it needs to cover for the mods to be justified in banning toxic users, at least not without a very, very loose definition of harassment/abuse. I just think that when a user base has declined the way JUB's has, and when the same complaints are being made over and over by different people who all cite the same reasons for leaving, something needs to be addressed.

In regard to examples though, I think making more obvious references to the actions of other members, even through hypotheticals, would come a little too close to the kind of baiting I'm talking about. The user base of JUB is small enough that if I were to put forth a relevant example of the baiting I'm talking about, most people would know both who and what I was referring to, even if I switched around the details. It would only fuel the burning fire by putting people on the defensive. I would be happy to PM examples to you if you're interested personally, but I don't think any good can come from posting it publicly. This thread is already messy enough.

Fine post.

 

[opinterph]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

I group by behavior instead of intention/perceived intention

The action is the problem but they labelled it as the intent that's the problem

Posts illustrate behavior. They are a part of the process of behavior.

As a term of description, “intent” can be qualified as possible, probable, obvious …

Sometimes making an assumption about another’s intent is not unreasonable. After all, assumptions can contribute toward a better understanding in some situations.

OTOH, assumptions are not facts.

most trolls

as opposed to

willful ignorance

When does “willful ignorance” turn into malice?

the list of 13 trolls on buzzfeed

13 Types Of Troll You’ll Meet On The Internet​

 

[luckynumbah7]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

Posts illustrate behavior. They are a part of the process of behavior.

As a term of description, “intent” can be qualified as possible, probable, obvious …

Sometimes making an assumption about another’s intent is not unreasonable. After all, assumptions can contribute toward a better understanding in some situations.

OTOH, assumptions are not facts.




When does “willful ignorance” turn into malice?

13 Types Of Troll You’ll Meet On The Internet​

Posts illustrate a lot of things. However, behavior is not synonymous with action. By action I meant moderation by action. Behavior includes 'feelings'. Judging action's results doesn't, most of the time. And while mods do judge intent *to an extent*, the job isn't *based* on judging the intentions of what amounts to strangers where 3/4ths of the 'how humanity judges others intents through tone, inflection and body language' isn't available.

At this point I have to ask, is anyone who is arguing for general moderation to shift towards judging the intent of a couple of paragraphs from someone you don't know three facts about and/or never seen before and whether it was maliciously meant, a one-off irritation or totally harmless from the one direction (if not from the other) actually moderated before? Moderated more than friends, that is.
-Opinterph, excluding yourself, as I'm assuming you're arguing from an admin view. Whose job I don't consider the same as a moderator, since Bigger Picture.

^Because when (general) you decide new strategies or implement rules you have to go by the common denominator, not the numerator. I get more than an impression that people want to modify the existing rules to go after four or five trolls when in actuality, the implementation of intent that you'll be using to get rid of the trolls have to be given to the rest of the population as well. Which isn't Good Moderation in the least.

People I think I know
------------
People I don't know from Adam

The numerator is also smaller than you think. It's smaller than ~everyone~ thinks. That's the whole point.

 

[opinterph]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

How many infractions will result in a ban?

It’s less about quantity than severity. Some offenses will result in an immediate ban.

Most infractions are assigned a point value. Warnings are technically infractions, but carry no points. If a member accumulates 10 points, he is banned for 1-week; however, most 1-week bans are initiated by a single 10-point infraction – typically after the member has previously been advised to modify his behavior.

I think my point about infractions was probably the weakest and least substantiated because, as zoltanspawn mentioned, I don't have access to enough information.

I would like for you to review the first 6 posts in the thread, Anti-gay group makes a 'Nobody is Born Gay' clanger. Please point out any deliberate baiting or taunting of other members. I also need to know if you see any dragging of arguments or personal issues from one thread to another (in those first 6 posts).

Do you perceive any other problems?

 

[peeonme]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thr...ody-is-Born-Gay-clanger?p=9751697#post9751697
The real travesty is that a very good thread got derailed with just a few words that were irrelevant to the topic, it's sad to some of us,
seldom do we get to see a thread that might take some true thought and intellectual process.

Thanks to a couple of words that could have been ignored and could have been left out we lost a contributor, mind you he (Fade to Black) and I have disagreed on topics, we "argued" a little, but damn, it was nice to have someone to butt heads with on a real topic.
After any disagreement we were still "friends" on this forum because we didn't resort to insults.

 

[eastofeden]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thr...ody-is-Born-Gay-clanger?p=9751697#post9751697
The real travesty is that a very good thread got derailed with just a few words that were irrelevant to the topic, it's sad to some of us,
seldom do we get to see a thread that might take some true thought and intellectual process.

Thanks to a couple of words that could have been ignored and could have been left out we lost a contributor, mind you he (Fade to Black) and I have disagreed on topics, we "argued" a little, but damn, it was nice to have someone to butt heads with on a real topic.
After any disagreement we were still "friends" on this forum because we didn't resort to insults.

Jason was one of...if not THE...most decent and kind man I have ever had the pleasure of meeting on the internet. I don't always agree with him either but I don't agree with most of my friends about lots of stuff...it is normal. We never had a problem disagreeing about anything and remaining friendly afterward....

His absence is a great loss this community.

 

[gsdx]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

Please point out any deliberate baiting or taunting of other members.

I don't understand what relevance the state the sign was in let alone which city. Nor do I understand the relevance of what company made the sign.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

I would like for you to review the first 6 posts in the thread, Anti-gay group makes a 'Nobody is Born Gay' clanger. Please point out any deliberate baiting or taunting of other members. I also need to know if you see any dragging of arguments or personal issues from one thread to another (in those first 6 posts).

5-6 are baits.

Jasun generally got irritated when people generalized religion or "the South". Knowing who said poster was had no relevance other then to make the following baiting post which is post number 6.

 

[Cormac135]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

^ I saw no baiting on either post, as for people dragging arguments from thread to thread, well where do i begin...........

The minute you start going into some of the longterm animosity between some members over months or years, you realize it all so petty and you sound idiotic for even bringing it up and god forbid you should waste a mods time with such nonsense.

Both parties should just grow the fuck up and move along.

p.s. I Love Canada.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

^ I saw no baiting on either post, as for people dragging arguments from thread to thread, well where do i begin...........

Then explain to me what relevance it has to know who the said poster and make the following comment he did?

The minute you start going into some of the longterm animosity between some members over months or years, you realize it all so petty and you sound idiotic for even bringing it up and god forbid you should waste a mods time with such nonsense.

Both parties should just grow the fuck up and move along.

Step down from where you are, it is unbecoming of you.

 

[Cormac135]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

Then explain to me what relevance it has to know who the said poster and make the following comment he did?



Step down from where you are, it is unbecoming of you.

^ I saw no baiting on either post, as for people dragging arguments from thread to thread, well where do i begin...........

The minute you start going into some of the longterm animosity between some members over months or years, you realize it all so petty and you sound idiotic for even bringing it up and god forbid you should waste a mods time with such nonsense.

Both parties should just grow the fuck up and move along.

p.s. I Love Canada.

^ Case in point.

I see no harm in asking a poster, especially if he seems to fit in from the get go if he used to be so and so.
Indeed rareboy asks almost every new member if he's NativeSon, is that trolling/baiting/boring ?

 

[Cormac135]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

Yes it can be considering baiting, but the difference there is that NativeSon was banned and coming back is something that is not allowed, so knowing who he is actually has a purpose.

If people should grow up and move along, then let me ask you why you brought up Buzzer a poster who hardly posts here anymore as "Buzzkill"? Before telling people to do something, make sure you're capable of doing it yourself.

^ Case in point again.
Any post i make you seem to take offence at, indeed as Max has pointed out many times, you seem to spend a lot of time here just trolling/baiting me, like right now actually, and whenever he brought the subject up all you did was answer him with gifs making out he was some kind of doofus that you thought beneath you.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

^ Case in point again.
Any post i make you seem to take offence at, indeed as Max has pointed out many times, you seem to spend a lot of time here just trolling/baiting me, like right now actually, and whenever he brought the subject up all you did was answer him with gifs making out he was some kind of doofus that you thought beneath you.

The first thing I ever said to max was calling him out because he was nasty to another member for no reason. He didn't like that, so he claimed I was stalking him around the board. Ironically like you are not now, as if I don't post in other threads at all. He proceeded to go into multiple threads making side line comments claiming how miserable my life is because he was dragging info from the retail thread.

I comment on specific members cause these specific members have an attitude problem and generally like to start trouble. Yes, one of them is you and you can pretend all you want that you don't, but you do and plenty of people know it. There isn't much anyone can do about it.

 

[Cormac135]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

The first thing I ever said to max was calling him out because he was nasty to another member for no reason. He didn't like that, so he claimed I was stalking him around the board. Ironically like you are not now, as if I don't post in other threads at all. He proceeded to go into multiple threads making side line comments claiming how miserable my life is because he was dragging info from the retail thread.

I comment on specific members cause these specific members have an attitude problem and generally like to start trouble. Yes, one of them is you and you can pretend all you want that you don't, but you do and plenty of people know it. There isn't much anyone can do about it.

I'm sorry you feel that way, as for Max being my shining Knight....please, did you see the stuff he wrote about me in the leaving thread
However as he post regularly in the Last Post i've got to know him and he's rather nice, not the awful person you paint him as.

The board isn't a miserable place for me as i've managed to make friends with lots of people, perhaps you should make some threads that interest you and not just go back and forth with members you don't like, if you give out good vibes you'll get them back.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

I propose that henceforward instead of signatures we append our posts with "sensitivities." For example, HardUp could have listed "jokes about Virginia" and "generalizations about Baptists" as sore points, or I could include "rhinoceros bashing" in mine. This way, everyone would know up front what topics are likely to incite emotional responses and the problem of baiting posts could be solved, as no one could ever knowingly broach the unfairly provocative topics.

 

[mikemizanin729]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

The first thing I ever said to max was calling him out because he was nasty to another member for no reason. .

If we were to get petty here (I've actually lowered myself right now) you basically can't get over that gun debate thread about 6months ago when you said everyone who owns a guns violent. You're actually telling a complete lie about the other member you just can't see past a disagreement from months ago.

I seriously think you need to move on.

I comment on specific members cause these specific members have an attitude problem and generally like to start trouble.

Which is exactly what you do to Cormac everytime you leave a remark in almost every thread from out of the blue. No specific reason as to why you do it.

If that's not baiting I don't know what is.

Cormac trued to be reasonable with you in some of his posts and whenever he tried you didn't respond yet you seem to have no problem responding to arguments I wonder why that is?

You aren't calling no one out on their behavior you're deliberately baiting because you hate us both and trying to cover for yourself.

 

[mikemizanin729]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

^ Case in point.

I see no harm in asking a poster, especially if he seems to fit in from the get go if he used to be so and so.

Not to mention he had no problem outing you along with contributing in a sarcastic thread.

I can't see what's insulting In asking another poster if they were a past poster here unless it's a deliberate (sarcastic) thread made to bait. Kalahir merely asked if he were talking to hardup1 what's insulting in that...???

 

[gsdx]

Re: System That Chums The Water [SPLIT]

Kalahir merely asked if he were talking to hardup1 what's insulting in that...???

If they had a 'history', it could be very important.