The “gay agenda” today is fundamentally conservative

[JayHawk]

A Conservative Conundrum

Sullivan also refused to address one salient fact: According to a CNN poll, 27% of self-identified gay voters supported John McCain in the last presidential election, the highest such figure ever recorded for a GOP candidate. In actuality, the number is likely higher, given that there are presumably many gay people who do not divulge their sexuality to pollsters. Regardless of whether the conservative movement thinks there should be room within it for gays, there are plenty of them already there.

Though it may seem paradoxical, the “gay agenda” today is fundamentally conservative. Neither gay activists nor mainstream conservatives will be happy to admit this, of course.

The young gay activists protesting today do so in order to get married. They want to join a bedrock institution, not tear it apart.

The same conservative impulses characterize the push for open service in the military. In the 1960s and 1970s some gay activists were rooting for a Vietcong victory and voyaging to Cuba to help realize Fidel Castro’s communist revolution. Today, a major demand of the country’s most prominent gay groups is the right to join the U.S. military. Such a position would be unimaginable to many of the gay activists of the early years, who, with some notable exceptions, were down-the-line hard leftists.

I know we banter about here on who is on what side. However, most of us desire Equality of association (I may be mistaken). So what do you think? I have thought for years the only way the Military or the conservative party changes is from within. You see this in HT and sometimes here in CE&P all the time. The advice for someone dealing with a homophobic idiot or simply a misinformed lemming is to inform them what they are saying is wrong in a polite and professional manner so as not to reinforce their hateful ideology with an angry violent response. It is generally agreed that such response simply harden the recipient in their anti-gay views. So why isnt that part of the ideology of politically minded members of the LGBT community? Why not work to get your voice heard instead of ignored?

“Gay people are not the property of the Left, or of any party,” Herbert said. “They will vote for the political party which best sits with their views, so long as that party does not make itself taboo.” This is straightforward advice and will hopefully require something short of a second Boston Tea Party for the GOP to understand.

Indeed how many have campaigned endlessly on here against anything associated with the teaparty?

Today, although the GOP remains adamantly opposed to gay marriage and the occasional Republican politician may utter an ignorant remark, antigay animus is slowly dissipating. It does not, for example, appear to have any place in the Tea Party movement sweeping the country. At the 2008 Republican National Convention, 49% of the delegates supported civil unions or marriage for gays, a number that will only increase every four years as the delegate pool becomes younger, itself a reflection of the remarkable generational shift that is evident on this issue. And at CPAC, only 1% of the 2,395 participants in the conference’s straw poll listed “stopping gay marriage” as an important political concern.

 

[Supersix]

Things aren't so bad on the right after all.......

 

[Kulindahr]

Is it time for a "John McCain In Drag Look-Alike Contest"?

 

[JayHawk]

It is an interesting read. McCain might not look so bad in drag compared to some of the drag queens I have seen so far in life.

I just wonder and was gonna open the ridiculous can of worms again around here about marginalizing those that support your agenda but have the wrong color on there election map.

It is an odd observation in that mainstream gay activism has become about centerline values compared to just a desire not to be raided in the clubs and bathhouses.

 

[torontoboy92]

Things aren't so bad on the right after all.......

You would say that.


As for the op, bullshit. Correlation does not imply causation.
Conservatisim desires to take us back to a simpler time, where
Whites and other "races" (especially African Americans) were treated liked laundry, poor people remained surfs to the land, and fags simply didn't exsist outside of France.

The world suffers through various forms of conservatism for over 1,000 years (dark ages, fascisim, nationalism, etc) and now people want to go back to the root of that "thinking"? Count me out, this gay, like the majority of others, is a proud lefty.

 

[JayHawk]

You seriously think the majority of Americans who vote for conservative candidates desire for blacks to be treated like 'laundry'?

What an incredibly mixed up false world you live in.

 

[Kulindahr]

Conservatisim desires to take us back to a simpler time, where
Whites and other "races" (especially African Americans) were treated liked laundry, poor people remained surfs to the land, and fags simply didn't exsist outside of France.

The world suffers through various forms of conservatism for over 1,000 years (dark ages, fascisim, nationalism, etc) and now people want to go back to the root of that "thinking"? Count me out, this gay, like the majority of others, is a proud lefty.

Time to go back to the dictionary -- you're talking about reactionism, not conservatism.

Unfortunately a large number of reactionaries in the U.S. manage to pass themselves off sufficiently well as conservatives to keep getting elected.

 

[torontoboy92]

You seriously think the majority of Americans who vote for conservative candidates desire for blacks to be treated like 'laundry'?

What an incredibly mixed up false world you live in.

Oh boy, another "gay" republican.

The majority of racists are teabaggers and or republicans. They would love nothing better than returning to a state of segregation. (Like separating blacks and whites while doing laundry).

As for the false world bit, how about you, and the other 3 republicans go to GOP meetings and tell them ur a non-rich fag and see how well you are treated in passing our agenda.

This thread is an example of the republican disease that strikes some gays. Like autoimmune diseases, republican sympathy takes control of the host gay, and forces it to attack itself through supporting the GOP. Look at Minnesota for example. They can't wait to kill progress there.

Fuck the republicans.

 

[JayHawk]

Interesting that you first seek to marginalize and not even begin to know who or what I am.

You are the problem with progress.

I could list the ignorant on the left but it would do nothing to change your perverse view of the country you have abandoned.

And your right the advocate which published the material for this thread is a right wing hate organization. i agree completely.

Oh wait no i don't, i think your a lunatic so infatuated with your own self and your own world that you fail to see how progress is made.

What just happened to all the liberal agenda that was so unanimous a (what did ya call it) "landslide" victory for change? thats right it was killed off for stupidity.

 

[construct]

Might I suggest that gay folk who are conservative might have more luck moving the Democratic Party to the right than they would moving the Republican Party to embrace gay-positive positions? That would certainly be the case in Texas at least. There is a significant constituency for blue dogs, but I'm not so sure the same could be said for pro-gay Republicans.

 

[JayHawk]

I agree Construct the Democratic party should move to the center some; just as the republican party needs to much more so for the older regime.

49% of the teaparty folks support gay marriage/civil unions. now is the time to firmly place the gay american viewpoint in that facet of the republican party.

 

[construct]

I agree Construct the Democratic party should move to the center some; just as the republican party needs to much more so for the older regime.

49% of the teaparty folks support gay marriage/civil unions. now is the time to firmly place the gay american viewpoint in that facet of the republican party.

Perhaps I am terribly provincial, but I have a hard time believing the stats from the article about support for gay marriage. I'd love to see the writer's source. As I said, gay Republicans will have a very hard row to hoe in Texas. I believe I read a sentence in the article to the effect that the influence of religious conservatives in the South would be hard to overcome.

In any case the article ends with the disclaimer that things are very different on the other side of the pond (whence the author hails). His views, as even he conceded, may not be directly applicable to the American political scene.

 

[JayHawk]

The author is from Europe but writes extensively for the Advocate and on political issues in the US regularly.

As i read the article I believe he comment to directly address Nick Herbert's opinions. Nick Herbert is of course the gay Tory (conservative) who recently won his race in the UK.

I agree however that the template in Europe does not mesh well with US politics. Their Right is our left.

 

[JayHawk]

I still believe that change will only occur from within and despite the cheers and desires of the most liberal here the right side of American politics isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

So the only alternative is the same as it is with our military ingrain yourselves in the institution and then demand change.

 

[laikaNYC]

Oh boy, another "gay" republican.

The majority of racists are teabaggers and or republicans. They would love nothing better than returning to a state of segregation. (Like separating blacks and whites while doing laundry).

As for the false world bit, how about you, and the other 3 republicans go to GOP meetings and tell them ur a non-rich fag and see how well you are treated in passing our agenda.

This thread is an example of the republican disease that strikes some gays. Like autoimmune diseases, republican sympathy takes control of the host gay, and forces it to attack itself through supporting the GOP. Look at Minnesota for example. They can't wait to kill progress there.

Fuck the republicans.

Good grief, you really are insanely ignorant. But then again, you're only 18, so I can understand your high level of immaturity. Can you please name one Republican attempting to resume state segregation?

 

[JayHawk]

Wow you are quite eloquent.

So you can't live in the fifty states and hate where you live.

Sucks to be you.

 

[JayHawk]

That opinion and that poster aside this thread was meant for discussion about the current agenda of gay activism.

Feel free to have raving foamy rants but it really doesn't do anything for anyone.

 

[Stardreamer]

Oh boy, another "gay" republican.

The majority of racists are teabaggers and or republicans. They would love nothing better than returning to a state of segregation. (Like separating blacks and whites while doing laundry).

As for the false world bit, how about you, and the other 3 republicans go to GOP meetings and tell them ur a non-rich fag and see how well you are treated in passing our agenda.

This thread is an example of the republican disease that strikes some gays. Like autoimmune diseases, republican sympathy takes control of the host gay, and forces it to attack itself through supporting the GOP. Look at Minnesota for example. They can't wait to kill progress there.

Fuck the republicans.

There are racist and segregationists on both the left and the right, they do not define the main parties simply because they associate themselves with them.

As for Gay Republicans going to GOP meetings and how they are greeted, GOPride co-sponsored this years CPAC conference despite a walk out and protest by the Religious Right. When a speaker at the conference gave the usual religious right mantra, he was booed off the stage.

 

[JayHawk]

When a speaker at the conference gave the usual religious right mantra, he was booed off the stage.

I see glimmers of hope for change. I know the military is tolerant. I just think it would be a monumental mistake to not embrace the other hand of power in the United states and then simply wait for scraps to fall off the table.

The change is coming due to the constant cycle of older bigoted class of folks being replaced by younger more tolerant accepting folks. We can either have a lasting voice in both parties or be forever marginalized and taken advantage of like the black voter is in america by the democratic party.

 

[T-Rexx]

I have always been impressed with the right's willingness to make up "facts" to support whatever position they wish to promote. E.g., evolution is a 200 yr. old conspiracy of biologists, global climate change is a conspiracy of all of the world's climate scientists, Obama is a Kenyan, Obama spent $200 million/day to travel to India, etc., etc., etc.

But that article by James Kirchick is beyond absurd, even for right wingnut non-factual illogic.

The "gay agenda" is "fundamentally conservative" ?!? What "gay agenda?" We're conservative because we want equal rights?!? What part of the conservatives doing everything they could to stop the equal rights movement over the past 60 years did the author miss?

We're conservative because we want our military to join the Twentieth Century? What part of the conservatives doing everything they can to block DADT did the author miss?

We're conservative because 27% of self-reported gays said they supported McCain in one survey? And the other 73% don't count?

"Antigay animus does not appear to have any place in the Tea Party movement?" What part of Christine O'Donnell's, Sharron Angle's, Michele Bachman's, Marco Rubio's, Rand Paul's, Carl Paladino's, Ken Buck's, Joe Miller's, and Sarah Palin's anti-gay hate speeches did the author miss?

Gays were anti-American in the 60s and 70s?!? We wanted the Viet Cong to succeed?!? We were travelling to Cuba to support Castro?!? Where does this guy come up with this crap? There is not one shred of truth in this bigotry.



I am fed up with all this gay-bashing by Republican hate-mongers like Kirchick. I had never heard of the guy before this thread. Now, I wish I hadn't.

That article does not merely lack any basis in fact. It is disgusting anti-gay bigotry, of which there seems to be no end on the right wing of American politics.