"The Age Of Ann Is Over"

[OtterJoq]

^ That was an intelligent, potent post, nicely and effectively presented -- right up until the old anti-gay gay term "self-loathing". That ruined it.

At the risk of leaving playwithmemonkey feeling assaulted, if that term is left out, the post turns post #69 on its metaphorical head and knocks it into its component bricks. Good... but chilling... links.

<- This idiot of course had to check them out. Now if you'll all excuse me, I'm going to go get a pumpkin, label it "M. Savage", and do some target practice.

I'm sorry, but after reading and listening to Savage for years, I can't come up with any other reason why a gay man would defend and support him. Savage is obviously one of the biggest enemies of the gay community, and yet playwithme cites him as "brilliant" and not bigoted.

What's your take on why playwithme would do this? Why else would someone so ardently defend his most greivous enemy?

I'll happily withdraw the epithet upon reading a cogent, reasonable explanation from our poster as to why he finds Savage so admirable.

BTW..."Savage" isn't even his real name. Do a little digging and find out what his REAL last name is...I guarantee you'll laugh!

 

[Kulindahr]

I'm sorry, but after reading and listening to Savage for years, I can't come up with any other reason why a gay man would defend and support him. Savage is obviously one of the biggest enemies of the gay community, and yet playwithme cites him as "brilliant" and not bigoted.

What's your take on why playwithme would do this? Why else would someone so ardently defend his most greivous enemy?

I'll happily withdraw the epithet upon reading a cogent, reasonable explanation from our poster as to why he finds Savage so admirable.

BTW..."Savage" isn't even his real name. Do a little digging and find out what his REAL last name is...I guarantee you'll laugh!

My guess is blindness. When helping with a friend's campaign for Congress, I began to realize that a fair protion of both Democrats and Republicans have worldviews that so match a party line they've been raised in that it's like religion, and things that don't fit that worldview (or "belief set") ... just ... aren't ... there.

Here's a personal example: I was brought up very, very strictly to pay no attention to foul language. I discovered this awareness-editing in myself when one night at the house in college we got into a rollicking good dispute over what movies to show for our dance, drop, ... brain-blank; the third word started with another d, but it meant movies afterward. Anyway, a half dozen guys were vehement that one of the movies should not be selected because it was full of foul language. I blurted out, "Huh?" (real moment of eloquence) because I'd seen the thing at least three times and couldn't recall even one use of the f-word or s-word.
So two of them showed me -- we watched it together and they hit pause every time someone swore... and I got an awakening! They couldn't believe it, so we asked a psych prof, who affirmed that people can actually miss seeing or hearing pieces of reality that don't fit what's "supposed to be".

So with something this extreme, that's the only explanation I've got. It's scary! But having witnessed it from both sides, I know it's possible -- and I don't think that self-loathing to the point of self-inflicted suffering is common enough to invoke; I've only known two people who did it knowingly, maybe a dozen who did it unknowingly (to this sort of drastic degree).

Or it could be misplaced hope -- a desire that things be different, one so strong that the subconscious edits things out to make the world conform... in perception. I guess that's really sort of the same phenomenon, from a different starting point.

Trauma of some sort can do the same thing, of course, but that's getting rather far-fetched.

As for gay Republicans broadly, my guesses (okay, some have evidence for them) include:

* local/state difference in the way the party functions, either throwback to the Goldwater elevation of liberty as the highest principle or an infusion of tolerance
* loyalty because of upbringing
* dearly-held conviction from B.O. (before out) that isn't easily abandoned
* brave "change it from the inside" motivation
* deep antipathy to something in the Democratic platform
* deep conviction for something in the Republican platform
* hypnotism
* a covert NSA operation involving drugs and illegal Russian immigrants
* straight boys who need cash


Okay, I'm getting silly.... but then I haven't been to bed for 28 hours... and not with anyone for... for...

almost long enough that I'd register Republican if some hot Republican boi asked me to be his bf.

 

[playwithmemonkey]

Here's "brilliant" Michael telling a gay caller to his show that he should "get AIDS and die."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-07-07-talk-host-fired_x.htm

It wasn't a gay caller, it was a ass hole prank caller who insulted Dr. savage on the air.

Here's your hero, who isn't "bigoted at all," informing us that the raising of a child by same-sex parents is "child abuse."
http://www.datalounge.com/cgi-bin/iowa/forum/thread/gossip/4562497/page-1.html

I agree that the ideal situation in which raising a child would be a mother and a father. I would definitely say that having same sex parents isn't the healthiest of ituations. I would put it in the catagory of having a single parent. I think that every child should have a mother and a father influence. However, thats not to say that gay parents and single parents can't be good parents.

And finally, here are a few more links that'll allow you to further edify yourself on this man who "speaks the truth."
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/individuals/michael_savage/

Dude, I listen to his show practically everyday so I am very aware of the comments he has made in the past mmmmkay. You're not going to post anything that I haven't heard already. I can tell you though that pretty much everything that you have posted has been taken out of context.

 

[OtterJoq]

It wasn't a gay caller, it was a ass hole prank caller who insulted Dr. savage on the air.


I agree that the ideal situation in which raising a child would be a mother and a father. I would definitely say that having same sex parents isn't the healthiest of ituations. I would put it in the catagory of having a single parent. I think that every child should have a mother and a father influence. However, thats not to say that gay parents and single parents can't be good parents.

Dude, I listen to his show practically everyday so I am very aware of the comments he has made in the past mmmmkay. You're not going to post anything that I haven't heard already. I can tell you though that pretty much everything that you have posted has been taken out of context.

And I listen to him and read him quite frequently as well.

There's no mistaking the context of his words.

While I doubt he actually believes his own vitriolic hyperbole, I do believe he is exploiting the same market that Coulter is...the uninformed, the hyperhomophobic, and the moronic. Apparently, it's a large market. He's getting rich. She's getting rich. And because of both of them, hatred spreads ever wider.

I'll back off of the "self-loathing" charge and charitably echo Kulindahr's diagnosis of "blindness." But either way, I pity you.

And all the smiley emoticons in the world won't change that.

 

[Kulindahr]

It wasn't a gay caller, it was a ass hole prank caller who insulted Dr. savage on the air.

What's the evidence for that?
And even if it's so... so what? You don't say things like that on the air unless you believe them! That may be the only piece of your program someone may hear, and you're going to be so off-the-wall that there's not even a roof in sight? and in a way nicely crafted to get lots of people pissed off?
There aren't many possibilities here, dude. Let's see:

* really is that hateful and vile and would say that to any gay caller
* knew it was a prank call and acted like a total barbarian anyway
* is so out of touch that he was clueless
* says things just to piss people off
* (any more?)

I don't see any way to put anything resembling spin on this; it's an irregular chunk of rock with sharp edges, and those don't spin.

I agree that the ideal situation in which raising a child would be a mother and a father. I would definitely say that having same sex parents isn't the healthiest of ituations. I would put it in the catagory of having a single parent. I think that every child should have a mother and a father influence. However, thats not to say that gay parents and single parents can't be good parents.

I can buy that as an ideal situation; biology made male + female = parents for a reason. OTOH, I've seen studies which strongly suggest that children raised by two men, or two women, are in general better off than children raised by just one parent. I'd be willing to bet that despite gender, children raised by parents one of whom is there are better off than those raised by the ideal monogamous heterosexual couple who both work and leave junior with day care or something. So, yes -- since gay parents demonstrably can be good parents, and since this world is full of kids from really messed-up homes, who need good parents... let the parenting begin!

Dude, I listen to his show practically everyday so I am very aware of the comments he has made in the past mmmmkay. You're not going to post anything that I haven't heard already. I can tell you though that pretty much everything that you have posted has been taken out of context.

Why -- was he laughing, obviously joking, when he said "get AIDS and die"? What sort of thing is that to joke about? what sort of thing is it to say for ANY reason unless he's trying to demonstrate "things you should never say"?
I can't imagine a context in which what the man said could be defended except by a plea of insanity.

 

[playwithmemonkey]

Why -- was he laughing, obviously joking, when he said "get AIDS and die"? What sort of thing is that to joke about? what sort of thing is it to say for ANY reason unless he's trying to demonstrate "things you should never say"?
I can't imagine a context in which what the man said could be defended except by a plea of insanity.

Try this defense. When people call the show and are illinformed, insulting or both then savage lashes out. Usually he lashes out by cutting them off, calling them an ignoramus and then hanging up on them. This particular prank caller made it personal and said something about Savage's teeth, which he happens to be very sensative about. The caller got a Michael Savage response. Was the response appropriate? No. But savage is known to be a hothead and that is exactly the kind of response the caller was looking for IMO. Anyway, Savage appologised for that particular comment.

 

[unclaimedblessing]

I'd be willing to wager that there are more dysfunctional families with mothers & fathers than those with same sex partners.
My father was an abusive alcholic and we would have been much better off without him, but my Catholic Mom would never consider divorce.
I know many people in therapy due to reasons linked primarily to their parents and childhood.
Not all parents are like the Cleavers.

 

[OtterJoq]

playwithme...

Give me an example of a context in which it's appropriate to wish someone to "choke on a sausage" and die of the most horrific disease of our time. The caller made fun of his teeth; that justifies the outburst? Making fun of his teeth? Give me a break. You said that I had missed the context. You then supplied the context...and it still shows Dr. Weiner (aka Savage) to be a cretinous gasbag.

Give me an example of a context in which it's appropriate to call the rearing of a child by two people of the same gender as "child abuse." You claim that children are best raised by two people of differing genders. While we're waiting for you to cite sources to support your assertion (I'll be translating "War And Peace" into Sanskrit during the interim), tell us how you can equate "less than ideal" with "abuse?" Weiner didn't say it was "less than ideal." He said it was tantamount to abusing the child, which is one of the most horrific things imaginable. In what bizarre world are these two disparate notions identical to each other?

You jump through rhetorical hoops trying to explain away Dr. Weiner's propensity for shooting off his mouth time and time again, and for that, I pity you. If the above examples were limited instances, that might wash. But the good Dr. Weiner has made a career and a fair amount of coin with just this sort of behavior. His angry diatribes are what his audience craves. They don't want reasoned debate. They want words of hatred, they want to have their own twisted phobias justified, and they want to wallow in the Theater Of Invective as defined and created by Savage, Coulter, et al.

Finally, give us the correct pronunciation of Dr. Weiner's surname.

It's gotta be either "wiener" or "whiner." Either way, it's more than apt.

P.S.: Umm, spellcheck?

 

[glo-unit]

His beef isn't with the average gay, it is with the solcialist establishment of gays (or as he calls it, the homosexual mafia) that wish to take down the family and turn america into Europe.

I had to laugh at this. The "Homosexual Mafia" is a bunch of BS the extreme right to characterize any member of the GBLT community who dares stand up for their rights.

 

[OtterJoq]

By the way, playwithme...

As I'm sure you're aware, in a NewsMax interview on Feburary 5th of this year, Michael "Savage" Weiner announced that he's mulling a run for the office of President of these United States. In an on-line poll, over three million visitors to his talk show's website heartily approved of his aspirations.

Now...

For $10,000 and a year's supply of Rice-A-Roni, the San Francisco treat...

Name the major party Weiner hopes to represent in the 2008 presidential election.

http://www.crews.org/curriculum/ex/compsci/webresources/sounds/jeopardy.wav

Correct!

 

[Kulindahr]

I'd be willing to wager that there are more dysfunctional families with mothers & fathers than those with same sex partners.
My father was an abusive alcholic and we would have been much better off without him, but my Catholic Mom would never consider divorce.
I know many people in therapy due to reasons linked primarily to their parents and childhood.
Not all parents are like the Cleavers.

I knew a Lutheran pastor who had a solution for parents who wouldn't consider divorce (which should only be an absolute last resort): separate houses. He insisted one couple do that or he would turn them away from communion, since they weren't dealing with things, just being hateful, turning their kids hateful, making the neighbors and half the church elders miserable....
So the dad asked the boys where they'd like to live, and the menfolk got a house on the outskirts of town and left the original house to the mom and girls.
Within a month, the kids' grades went up, their behavior changed like dusk to noon, the church elders weren't getting phone calls anymore at all hours... and when the next church potluck came, that family sat together and were smiling and happy.
Six months later the parents were dating....
Two years later they decided to move back together, and it all went to hell in under a month. So back they went to separate houses. Mom and dad went out on dates, the kids excelled all around; the womenfolk dropped in on the men's place once a week to clean and such, and the menfolk dropped in on the women's place to do yard work and repairs.
It remains in the top few weirdest things I've ever seen -- a two-parent family in two houses.
There's the real reason "no-divorce" policies/beliefs are damaging -- not many pastors or priests are creative enough to try new ways of making it work.
And I think that there's a reason a lot of people don't want to see gay couples with kids: they're afraid that might work.

LOL -- now I'm trying to picture a family with Ann Coulter as mom... working.

 

[Kulindahr]

By the way, playwithme...

As I'm sure you're aware, in a NewsMax interview on Feburary 5th of this year, Michael "Savage" Weiner announced that he's mulling a run for the office of President of these United States. In an on-line poll, over three million visitors to his talk show's website heartily approved of his aspirations.

Now...

For $10,000 and a year's supply of Rice-A-Roni, the San Francisco treat...

Name the major party Weiner hopes to represent in the 2008 presidential election.

http://www.crews.org/curriculum/ex/compsci/webresources/sounds/jeopardy.wav

Correct!

The K.K.K.?

Hey! There's what we need if he does run.....

Our fellow Americans, we are proud to introduce to you----

The GAY K. K.!

Nattily garbed in flowing day-glo pink bedsheets, these patriotic Americans march today to exercise the natural, inherent right of freedom of expression. Note the lavender trim on the tall one in second place -- that's the leader, the Grand High Swisher, flanked by his assistants, the Grand Faggot and the Not-Quite-So-Grand Faggot. Ahead of them, with leather trim on his sheet, is the officer charged with keeping order, the Sergeant of Charms. In ranks behind -- and look at those behinds... wait for it.. yes, there's a gust of wind wrapping those sheets around those sturdy American behinds! It makes me want to sing "America, the Booty-full"! The rest of our Kozy Klan comes marching in........




#! <reality check > !#

>> check bounced <<

 

[Kulindahr]

LOL @ Weiner wanting to run for president.

When pigs fly. Or when Karl Rove takes flight on his own, either one.

Wow.
Almost had to abort this message -- a breath-stopping hunk just storde up to the counter here at the coffee shop... WHY, oh WHY, can't it be a gay coffee shop??!!


<pant>

Back to posting:

Thinking of the real name of the savage currently under discussion, have you pronounced his initials? There may be a clue to something there....

 

[OtterJoq]

The K.K.K.?

Hey! There's what we need if he does run.....

Our fellow Americans, we are proud to introduce to you----

The GAY K. K.!

Nattily garbed in flowing day-glo pink bedsheets, these patriotic Americans march today to exercise the natural, inherent right of freedom of expression. Note the lavender trim on the tall one in second place -- that's the leader, the Grand High Swisher, flanked by his assistants, the Grand Faggot and the Not-Quite-So-Grand Faggot. Ahead of them, with leather trim on his sheet, is the officer charged with keeping order, the Sergeant of Charms. In ranks behind -- and look at those behinds... wait for it.. yes, there's a gust of wind wrapping those sheets around those sturdy American behinds! It makes me want to sing "America, the Booty-full"! The rest of our Kozy Klan comes marching in........




#! <reality check > !#

>> check bounced <<

X infinity!

 

[OtterJoq]

19?

I would've guess 10 or 11, tops.

 

[OtterJoq]

19?

I would've guessed 10 or 11, tops.

I must have ED.

 

[Kulindahr]

I must have ED.

erectile dysfunction????

 

[NickCole]

I agree that the ideal situation in which raising a child would be a mother and a father.

That's a typical BushRepublican neocon/religious right pile of bullshit that they call "family values."

There are way too many variables to reasonably conclude that the gender of one's parents is what determines an "ideal situation."

 

[Kulindahr]

Nick, that's more typical broad-brush generalization to avoid thinking.
It's so easy to just smear something with a label instead of actually engaging brain cells, isn't it?
You're more like Bush than anything else when you do that. Maybe you shoud (gasp) ask some questions first, instead of acting like a knee-jerk fundamentalist.

 

[NickCole]

Nick, that's more typical broad-brush generalization to avoid thinking.
It's so easy to just smear something with a label instead of actually engaging brain cells, isn't it?
You're more like Bush than anything else when you do that. Maybe you shoud (gasp) ask some questions first, instead of acting like a knee-jerk fundamentalist.

I've been asking questions all my life.

That's one of the reasons I know so much.

And one of the things I know is that a mother and father raising a child is not necessarily an ideal situation. Sometimes a mother and father raising a child is a nightmare, and very often a single woman or man or two women or two men is a healthy situation. Depends on the people, not their gender.