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The expanding Israel-Hamas war

IDF says they are astounded by the extent of the tunnel networks in Gaza that included operations bases, and large chambers for making and storing ammunition. I am astonished that Israeli intelligence seems to have known so little about the tunnels network.

Somehow Hamas has been able to develop all of this under the noses of Israel.

Again, though, what in the name of their God possessed them to use it in what was a relatively small and useless terrorist attack in the first place? In one fell swoop, all the years of preparation have been squandered and any lingering hope of Hamas gaining a shred of legitimacy and of something better for the people of Gaza destroyed.
 
We don't know what Hamas was promised, and we don't know that Netanyahu is telling us the truth.
 
Israel has allowed direct access for humanitarian aid vehicles....200 hundred trucks without inspection and transfer of goods.

Meanwhile...there seems to be no Hamas or other anti-Zionist activity today in Gaza....but Israel keeps bombing the shit out of Hamas etc. positions.
 
NotHardUp1 said:
Both the peoples and their plights seem dissimilar in almost every way.

Japan clung to isolationism and a form of feudalism for many centuries. The Arabs were famous for being the traders who bridged the Orient and the Occident, so we ineherently more outward looking.

Japan was dragged into the commerce and opening by Europeans, and immediately resolved to catch up in many ways after the stagnation of its isolation. This industrialization eventually led to its disastrous imperial war that ended with humiliation in 1945. But they had been unified by the psychology of the emperor and their previous gains.

The Arabs had not been one people, but under a confederation of sorts during the Ottoman rule. After that, the various countries were largely the supplier vassals of Europe. When the British made the ghastly mistake of establishing Israel, the scattered Arabs were suddenly given motivation to form an Anti-Crusade to push back the occupiers. That they were outgunned by the West did not change the resentment, but ensured it.

The Japanese were not pushed off their land. The Arabs were and are.

The Japanese were not required to let the Koreans or Chinese possess Tokyo or any part of the Japanese Islands. The Arabs were forced into ghettos and into ever-increasing suppression.

The Japanese were horrific in their massacres in Manchuokuo and across the Pacific, so when the U.S. finally dealt decisive blows by carpet bombing and using nuclear strikes, the Japanese may have seen it as the fruits of their failed initiatives. Unlike the Chinese who had rebelled against the forced Cantons, Japan was just in a drive to expand for resources, not simply push out the round-eyed devils.

The Arabs, despite the Crusades or because of them, were not expansionists in the Industrial Era, so still see Europeans as both devils and paying customers in an odd mix of conflicting roles.
Click to expand...
I like your historical analysis of the Japanese and I agree that the keeping of the emperor allowed for a cultural continuity although I doubt they believed they deserved to suffer for their ‘failed initiatives’. I also agree that the Arabs were outward looking and perhaps the world’s greatest traders but I don’t think that description applies to those who currently reside in Gaza who are more insular and bitter.
I will push back a bit on your description of what happened in 1948. I don’t know where the Israelis obtained their weapons in 1948 but I would think the europeans didn’t have much to offer having just come out of a war and the U.S. had an arms embargo against both sides in 48. The soviets probably had some to offer and they did recognize Israel but I’ve never heard Stalin offered them anything. It’s more likely that they had been stockpiling weapons for yrs knowing they might be needed. They were outgunned and outmanned but that has more to do with the help those five invading Arab countries gave to the effort than anything the west did. The fact that the Israelis had more men in the field than the Arabs did indicates they were not going all out to win. Once again the Palestinians suffered for depending on the kindness of strangers.
The jews had already been down the Blanche Dubois road in their dealings with the Brits and maybe they learned that singular truth that you can’t rely on anyone but yourself and so they began collecting weapons. I have said here before that neither the Brits or the U.N. gave the Israelis land or a country, they have one because when attacked they defended that land just like everybody else. If the Palestinians ever thought the land was theirs and they didn’t have to defend it they learned a hard ancient lesson.
Finally I would point out that while the Arabs were not expansionist at that time considering their ability to fight it was a wise move. With the exception of Aqaba what military glories did the Arabs achieve in the last century, if they had the ability to coordinate and stay unified they should have wiped out the Jews in 1948 but that was beyond their capacity.
 
I think the Japanese over-extended somewhat too far and the avalanche of problems became a question of "how do we stop this without losing face". They couldn't stop on their own. Getting nuked gave them a way out. Keeping the Emperor as a mostly ceremonial position while re-building the government let them save face.
 
I suspect the annihilationist goals of Israel will suppress Hamas to the point that its viability is all but razed.

However, making the Palestinians more desperate than they already are will only increase the terrorist threat.

Give a people no quarter, and they have nothing to lose, including using nuclear means IF they can procure them.
 
Israeli Defense Minister has said, Israel will not impose civilian control on the Gaza Strip.

The crazy part?

At this point, it is so broken that Israel should be FORCED to impose civilian control on the Gaza strip in the same way that the allies did in Germany and Japan.

Otherwise...you just have a broken country...no legitimate civil government or infrastructure and no hope.

A recipe for disaster after disaster.
 
I believe the Israelis when they say they don’t wish to control or be involved with Gaza after the war but I can’t think of anyone else they would allow to do the job unsupervised. They are stuck just like the Palestinians who feel about the land the same way Jews have historically felt about their God, we’ll give up anything but not that.
 
Exactly.

After Nakba. After all the other wars. After this one.

Fish or cut bait.

Either create a Palestinian state run by Israel with 100% responsibility for health and education and all public services with the freedom to suck Allah's dick or be prepared for 1000 years of war.
 
And Hamas is still utterly delusional.

The leader (still alive and outside of Gaza) proclaiming that only Palestinians will determine the future of Gaza...and a barrage of missiles fired at Tel Aviv from central Gaza.

Hamas is trying to dictate terms on the hostages.

And Al Qassam is still bragging every time it destroys a tank.
 
I am having a profound attraction to rareboy…maybe we should get coffee?
 
The assassination of Brigadier General Radhi Mousavi, the most senior Iranian Revuloutionary Guard commander in Syria removes a very senior leader who has likely also been instrumental in Hezbollah and Hamas.

Given that Israel even bothered with this, it may be that Mousavi has been one of the principla architects of the failed attack in October.

It is hard to say if this will draw Iran more directly into the conflict, but it likely will have an impact on Syria's own civil war.
 
Looking at the most current maps, I am surprised that Israel has apparently not further partitioned north and central Gaza to reduce the ability of militants to keep shifting from one area like Jabalia to adjacent Al Qubbah in the north and the Bureij area from other settlements in the centre.
 
It is so sad to have Al Sisi and Hussein Jr. from Jordan calling for a political solution for statehood for Palestine.

I have to think that they are so cynical that they know how hollow their words are all these decades later....

The last flicker of any possibility of Palestinian statehood was extinguished in October 2023.

Palestine is a dead abstraction now until post Armageddon.
 
In part answer to my question above...it appears that the fight has actually moved to the underground in some areas.

Israeli forces are reportyed to be operating inside tunnels in Khan Younis in south central Gaza. Israel Defense Minister Gallant says that the 98th Division is fighting in these spaces with forces reaching more command centers, ammunition depots and arms production sites.

Of course when this is over...this entire tunnel network will be left destroyed so it cannot be used again by Hamas.
 
Today, it appears to be much quieter in northern Gaza as IDF focus on specific areas in Jabalia.

In south easterly Gaza, IDF is now beginning operations in Khuza'a fornthe first time.
 
At midnight, Hamas launched a barrage of missiles into central Israel from Gaza. All were intercepted.

Must just be about the last gasp.
 
The Iranians have finally stopped hiding behind their mountains and have sent a destroyer to the Red Sea for what purpose is anyone’s guess, although I suppose it is beyond the capacity of their proxies. With more than a dozen nations patrolling the area in the name of free trade is Teheran there to help out because if not it sure is a puny power projection on their part. The Iranian proxies remind me of people in Trump’s orbit who do his bidding and end up with enormous legal bills while he searches for immunity for himself. They both excel at having others take the risk while they sit secure.
 
Iran sending a destroyer is an almost empty gesture.
 
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