the latest Israel-Palistine conflicts ...

[JayHawk]

Hamas was under the impression that the tiger was properly vanquished by the bad press after the Hizbollah conflict. So when Israel defied their reason and destroyed the ever loving fuck out of the terror machine in Gaza, well Hizbollah got the message that the Zion lion is not tamed by any other force than their own self restraint.

 

[syntax]

On a side note given that hamas and hizbollah both want israel to disappear I can't help but wonder why no attacks from the Lebanese side of the border have occurred.

Is it another example of how arabs cannot cooperate even with themselves or is it because hizbollah is a little shy after the 06 war and doesn't want to engage israel again?

inquiring minds want to know.

The answer to your question about Hizbullah is located in Damascus and Teheran. Hizbullah would not launch a major campaign against Israel without first receiving the OK from their major sponsors.

My assumption is that the regimes in Syria and Iran have other concerns at the moment and do not want additional entanglements in Lebanon.

If anything, Hizbollah came out of the 06 conflict wounded, but emboldened not shy.

 

[Telstra]

The answer to your question about Hizbullah is located in Damascus and Teheran. Hizbullah would not launch a major campaign against Israel without first receiving the OK from their major sponsors.

My assumption is that the regimes in Syria and Iran have other concerns at the moment and do not want additional entanglements in Lebanon.

If anything, Hizbollah came out of the 06 conflict wounded, but emboldened not shy.

Was it worth the fight and cause the misery? No

Now in Gaza, what is the point of launching rockects into israel? No benefits, only misery is the result.

 

[scottish1]

My reaction was 'not again' This conflict has gone on for so long the only profit to be made is either political or from arms dealing. The amount of time and money wasted on reaching any lasting peace agreement must be staggering.
How about someone drop about 500.000 ecstasy or LSD tabs on the whole area and stand back. You will probably get the same result.

 

[dellboy5]

Why is it that when ever Israel defends itself from Terrorist attacks coming from hamas, They are condemed by the rest of the world??? Also, whenever Israel defends itself, The palestenians are the VICTIMS???I think not! The Palestenians elected this Hamas in an overwelming manor to represent the people of Gaza. I wonder if the people of Gaza are feeling like Hamas has represented them well now??When Hamas attacks Israel, Israel should totally and completely destroy that entire place Gaza!

 

[opinterph]

Why is it that when ever Israel defends itself from Terrorist attacks coming from hamas, They are condemed by the rest of the world??? Also, whenever Israel defends itself, The palestenians are the VICTIMS???I think not! The Palestenians elected this Hamas in an overwelming manor to represent the people of Gaza. I wonder if the people of Gaza are feeling like Hamas has represented them well now??When Hamas attacks Israel, Israel should totally and completely destroy that entire place Gaza!

The goal of war is domination.

So the ever-evolving “Rules of Engagement” embraced/endorsed by the West may represent a paradigm shift of some sort from the way wars were fought in the past? … Or perhaps the primary battlefield is not necessarily located in the zone where the bombs are falling. I suspect that this concept has many broad-reaching applications.

Thus the opposition in our own country is not about differences in how to win the war; it is about supporting the enemy and rooting for him instead of us.

And, make no mistake. Whether it is called a religious caliphate or a socialist utopia, it is all about enslavement and control of the many by the few.

[Link]

 

[dellboy5]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qxkWt4r6I8&feature=PlayList&p=DB04F54F86A196F5&playnext=1&index=5[/ame]




this is what Israel goes through almost everyday. Its about time we fight back

 

[Kulindahr]

The first thing that really caught my attention is that Egyptian forces fired on people who just wanted to get away. I'd say Israel ought to target the border fence and take it out, so people can flee into the country that denies them the right to relocate.

And for every missile Hamas fires, I'd move the northern end of the Gaza/Israel wall south a hundred meters, bulldozing everything in front of it, because the only way to get Hamas out of the Gaza strip is to eliminate the strip.

 

[Kulindahr]

[

Yes but would that not be infringing on the authority of the PNA? How can you criticise the USA for invading Iraq but support Israel's invasion of Palestine?

OMG... you're serious here?

No one in Iraq was shooting rockets at us in the hundreds.
No one in Iraq was plotting genocide for our entire country.


Actually, there's no such thing as "Palestine" or "Palestinians". The only "Palestine" in recent history was a colonial territory ruled by the British. Everyone who lived there, Jew or Arab or Greek or whoever, was a Palestinian. The current term is one convenient to all the Arab nations which created the problem in the first place and still refuse to help, instead fueling the situation because they are still at war with Israel.
So Israel didn't "invade Palestine", they retaliated for raw aggression against indiscriminate targeting of civilians. There's no "Palestine" for them to invade.

Finally, no terrorist organization has any authority which should be recognized, until and unless they grow up, join the human race, and act like civilized, mature people.

 

[Kulindahr]

I'm absolutely serious. As serious as a person can be. Palestine has legitimate reasons for believing it has a right to exist. So does Israel. The answer is not more occupation. The answer is peace and the formation of either a bi-national secular democracy or individual states of Israel and Palestine.
Remember Kulindahr, I am 100% absolutely serious. Don't forget it. And please don't question it again. The PNA has recognition around the world. You are preaching Zionist bias as fact to me, I don't buy it for a second. There are many peole who view themselves as Palestinians. Israel has commited acts of terrorism on people in the West Bank and Gaza. Both sides are guilty and both sides need to work harder at peace.

I find it interesting how you post to people as if you are the only one that knows anything. That you are somehow educating us. Nothing you said was new to me and you made no arguments to support justification of invading the PNA.

"No one in Iraq was shooting rockets at us in the hundreds.
No one in Iraq was plotting genocide for our entire country."
Gulf War 1991. If that is all it takes to justify occupation then Iraq should be called Israel right now.

I didn't know that Israel trained suicide bombers, snuck in and blew up buildings with people in them, or indiscriminately targeted civilian targets.
They don't. They take military action, in response to attack; they do not engage in terrorism.
Nor are they "invading" anyone, let alone the PNA. They're attacking a terrorist organization that doesn't even give a fig for the lives of their own 'people', who are instruments of a foreign state dedicated to Israel's elimination.

Gulf War 1991? Really? I didn't notice anyone attacking the U.S. or raining rockets down on my neighborhood. I didn't see any cowardly terrorists deliberately asking for the slaughter of their own people by violations of the Geneva Convention just begging for hospitals and schools to be bombed.

You're in a strange sort of fantasy, here.

 

[Kulindahr]

BTW, the recognition of "Palestine" by countries around the world is the result of a careful propaganda campaign designed to make up a people, convince the world there really is such a thing, play victim... and because so many nations out there aren't free countries, and they recognize the PLA just to twig the countries which are free.

No nation that fails to have at least the rights protected in our Bill of Rights, and many that aren't, has any moral basis to be considered as relevant as far as recognizing other nations.

 

[MrWright]

Honestly, my immediate reaction was "Religion is the root of ALL evil." I know that is way simplistic but from Northern Ireland to Cambodia to Nazi Germany, to India / Pakistan to Rwanda to 9/11. Wherever bombs are bursting in air it seems that someone is playing the my god is better than your god game.

Now I'm not really religious but Nazi Germany?

Nazi Germany represented one of the most potent forms of secularism in world history.

In fact, a lot of historians view the crises of the twentieth century as significant in their powerfully secular character (soviet empire, holocaust, chinese revolution).


Religion intermingles with cultural identity and it's there where the issues arise: Balkans, Rwanda, Somalia, Chechnya, Palestine.

 

[opinterph]

… (not directed at any specific JUB member in case openternip is watching )

Do not intentionally misspell or misrepresent a fellow JUBer's screen name for any reason, most especially to bait or insult him/her.

 

[MrWright]

[Actually, there's no such thing as "Palestine" or "Palestinians". T

The geographical region has actually been called "Palestine" for over roughly two thousand years. The Romans referred to the provincial region as Palestine. Palestinian being a linguistic derivative referring to its inhabitants.

"Palestinians" in the more modern sense (as an ethnic Arab group) is rather new and misleading as the region is not one of ethno-cultural uniformity (yes islamic religion but the peoples of the golan heights and the west bank and the gaza strip don't "live" too close together - not really neighbors with a united cultural background like say Serbians or Iranians or Kurds).

Really they are Saudis, Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians that have fallen under Israelis jurisdiction since the formation of the Israelis state (with which they have no ethno-cultural ties). Palestinians are thus a cultural and ethnic group created more in contrast to what they aren't than what they are: namely, Jewish.

Arabs did rule the land prior to the formation of Israel. However, Arab leaders mislead most of the public in regards to this as Arab sheiks willfully sold crappy land to immigrant Jews following WWII who irrigated the land and gave it value. Much of Israel had been sold to Jews prior to the states formation.

 

[MrWright]

You are absolutely correct! Nazi Germany had to do with German Nationalism to an extreme, not religion. It is amazing what some people think (not directed at any specific JUB member in case opiinterph is watching )

Well...yes...

 

[naked gent]

Honestly, my immediate reaction was "Religion is the root of ALL evil."

Appearances aside this conflict has nothing to do with religion and is all about land and who will control it. The Ottoman Turks once ruled the area in question and though muslim still had difficultly governing the region.

Some people just don't like others being their overlords.

And as to the idea that the jews have been in that part of the world for thousands of yrs....well they have but for over 95% of that time they were ruled by someone else and isn't that the crux of the issue today.......who will rule the land in question?

 

[Persian89]

59 kids 'done', many many more to go ~_^

 

[Kulindahr]

I didn't say the US I said Israel. Please read my posts before you respond.

You said they were shooting at us, and that justified invading Iraq.

Your idea that Israel doesn't engage in terrorism is shockingly misinformed.
"...[T]he Zionist state remains the cause of more regional grievance and sheer terror than all the Muslim states combined. Read the melancholy Palestinian Monitor on the Internet; it chronicles the equivalent of Madrid's horror week after week, month after month, in occupied Palestine. No front pages in the West acknowledge this enduring bloodbath, let alone mourn its victims. Moreover, the Israeli army, a terrorist organisation by any reasonable measure, is protected and rewarded in the west."
John Pilger, antiwar.com 2004

"...[Y]ou are supposed to believe that nineteen missiles fired in a refugee camp crowded with women and children is not an act of terrorism, it is anti-terrorism. 'No matter how many shattered bodies of Palestinian men, women and children pile up, please understand that Israel is not a terrorist state.' You are not supposed to worry about the fact that Israel’s leader, Ariel Sharon, is a war criminal who slaughtered 1,500 Palestinian men women and children in Sabre and Shatila.

David Duke, PhD, Former US Representative (R-LA), in a Nov. 18, 2002 DavidDuke.com website article titled "What Is Anti-Semitism?," wrote:
You are supposed to believe that firing missiles from the relative safety of fighter jet or an armored helicopter gunship or tank into Palestinian buildings, refugee camps, neighborhoods is not terrorism! However, when a Palestinian suicide bomber sacrifices his life to strike at Israelis, that’s definitely terrorism. Have you got the picture now?"

OMG, do you realize the sources you are citing? Somehow, I just don't that that anti-Semites and racists are good authorities here.
And those missiles, btw, get fired into 'Palestinian' civilian locations because that's where the terrorists put their military stuff. The ones responsible for those deaths are Hamas and Iran, their sponsors along the path of genocide.

Both Israel and Palestine has engaged in violence toward civilians. They both need to draw a border and be done with it. The world is getting tired of their BS.

 

[Kulindahr]

Do not intentionally misspell or misrepresent a fellow JUBer's screen name for any reason, most especially to bait or insult him/her.

Gee, Openturf, how bad duz mai speleng haf two bee buffour I get zapt?

I didn't. I was going off memory. I am sorry. My god!! I edited the post. Someone typed affrat not affrat21. Are you gonna go after them too? Plz don't I wasn't offended. I'm off to the porn forum, there people talk about doing their brother and no prob, but here we have the word, grammar and spelling police. Geeeeeeezze.

You were kinda tweaking him, so he tweaked back, dude.

 

[Kulindahr]

The geographical region has actually been called "Palestine" for over roughly two thousand years. The Romans referred to the provincial region as Palestine. Palestinian being a linguistic derivative referring to its inhabitants.

"Palestinians" in the more modern sense (as an ethnic Arab group) is rather new and misleading as the region is not one of ethno-cultural uniformity (yes islamic religion but the peoples of the golan heights and the west bank and the gaza strip don't "live" too close together - not really neighbors with a united cultural background like say Serbians or Iranians or Kurds).

Really they are Saudis, Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians that have fallen under Israelis jurisdiction since the formation of the Israelis state (with which they have no ethno-cultural ties). Palestinians are thus a cultural and ethnic group created more in contrast to what they aren't than what they are: namely, Jewish.

Arabs did rule the land prior to the formation of Israel. However, Arab leaders mislead most of the public in regards to this as Arab sheiks willfully sold crappy land to immigrant Jews following WWII who irrigated the land and gave it value. Much of Israel had been sold to Jews prior to the states formation.

Excellent summary!

Tanks!