The "Right" to be Fat

[chance1]

What they should do is provide a reward for those citizens who take care of their own health. As long as your personal freedoms don't impinge mine, go ahead, eat pizza every day.

i got $400 back from my insurance co. (2 six month increments) for belonging to a gym and going x amount of times and proving it

thought that was pretty cool

but it still doesn't address smokers/over eaters drain on health care resources

not talking about victimless health problems - just ones that people could avoid with responsible behavior

 

[Stardreamer]

so what about the health cost argument?

should healthy citizens have to subsidize the health care costs of those who choose to be obese?

^ sorry look the post above also said that

So you are opposed to government supported health care for all then? Unless you going to reduce the population to mindless drones living a prescribed 'healthy' lifestyle there is always going to be folks making and living 'unhealthy' life choices.

 

[chance1]

Re: The "Right" to be Fat

There would be no way to limit the effect of that thinking. Fat hardens the arteries. Sugar leads to diabetes. Alcohol bad for the liver. We all need more exercise. The dictator of Romania, Ceaucescu limited every one to 1400 calories as I recall. Let's not go down that road.

smokers should pay more for health insurance

that's a CHOICE they need not make and I have to pay for - not digging it

- - - Updated - - -

So you are opposed to government supported health care for all then? Unless you going to reduce the population to mindless drones living a prescribed 'healthy' lifestyle there is always going to be folks making and living 'unhealthy' life choices.

yes I am

and i don't think not smoking (example) is an example of being "mindless" rather the oppostie

 

[chuck10x]

Do we really need a law outlawing drinking a 32 oz. soda?
If it's all about the kids, Parents should just buy them a normal size drink.
If Bloomberg is trying to fight the obesity problem, Shouldn't he just advocate for diet and exercise, and skip the super size meals.?
Obesity is the new evil, right up there with smoking. The insurance companies cite fat people for rising costs now that smoking is on the decrease.

 

[chance1]

So people should be allowed to eat whatever they want no matter the consequences? I think the regulation needs to come more down on the junkfood and fast food industry then people.

there is significant pressure on fast food restaurants as it relates to children's advertising - that is a good start

two issues as I see it

1 - the health of kids - who might have parents who for whatever reason, do NOT police what they eat/drink - we have OBESE kids - that's a fact

2 - adults/health care costs - why healthy people or the govt (with our $) has to pay for sickness caused by lack of willpower and bad choices

separate but connected issues

 

[Stardreamer]

Do we really need a law outlawing drinking a 32 oz. soda?
If it's all about the kids, Parents should just buy them a normal size drink.
If Bloomberg is trying to fight the obesity problem, Shouldn't he just advocate for diet and exercise, and skip the super size meals.?
Obesity is the new evil, right up there with smoking. The insurance companies cite fat people for rising costs now that smoking is on the decrease.

Those of us who opposed laws punishing and demonizing smokers in the 80's and 90's predicted that it would lead to laws on diet and dictating lifestyles next. We were laughed off at the time saying it wasn't the same. I do not approve of the government telling me who I can marry and I don't approve of the government telling what I can eat or drink.

 

[chance1]

to stardreamer


^^ i understand your concern but .........

how do you address the idea of an obese man who eats horribly who ends up on dialysis - with applicable costs borne by those other than himself

i don't think smokers are demonized btw

the effects of 2nd hand smoke IMO lead that change

if an individual accepts all of the consequences of bad habits well it's a non issue as far as I'm concerned

 

[GhostMost]

It limits businesses therefore I disagree, if people want to be obese and be at a disadvantage in life then let them.

 

[Stardreamer]

It is different though.

That's a nice red herring. I guess businesses could say the government doesn't have a right to tell them where they can pollute. Like it or not, regulations exist for a reason... including those against smoking.

The question is where is the line between public safety and individual freedom? A business dumping pollution in a river is a threat to others outside their own choices. Noone forces you to stay in the same room as a smoker and breath the smoke. If a business wants to allow smokers you always had the option of not giving that business your custom. Noone is forcing you to buy a big gulp cup of soda and if you want a smaller size and they don't provide it then just don't give them your custom.

The smoking laws at least had a fig leaf of the justification with the scientific evidence on second hand smoke which allowed you to treat it like pollution in enclosed spaces, which justified some of the smoking ban in indoor work places for instance. But the sugar in the cup of the person next to you is not going to migrate through the air into your body.

 

[Stardreamer]

to stardreamer


^^ i understand your concern but .........

how do you address the idea of an obese man who eats horribly who ends up on dialysis - with applicable costs borne by those other than himself

I accept that as the consequence of saying you going to provide health care to those in need, whether you do that by government or by social charity, you are going to have to accept that some of the people you help will have gotten there by bad life choices.

You address bad life choices by education and social influence and yes perhaps some penalties in the way of higher premiums but not government mandate. Freedom means freedom to make the bad choices as well as good. Something Republicans have forgotten when they try to dictate peoples lives as well.

i don't think smokers are demonized btw

the effects of 2nd hand smoke IMO lead that change

A lot of smokers felt demonized.

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

The proposed NYC soda law sucks and no way will it ever hold up in court as presented, if it ever got there with powerful soda industry lobbyist.
Besides if I really wanted 32 oz of coke I know how to buy two 16 oz fountain drinks at the same time.

Lets ban skateboarding, & personal water craft ( had about 5 accidents in the news locally this wknd), some 22 yr old broke his back some other guy got his ankle and foot severed. Why in the hell should I have to pay for those disabled shit wads the rest of their life because they want to ride a jet ski with very high accident rates and crippling injuries if they don't die.
I see yesterday in my neck of the woods 3 different accidents where people were run over on their bikes by cars. Now they are going to have permanent injuries, well one died. Fuck em why should I have to pay for some nut on a bike not wearing helmet and going against the traffic ?
Lets hit now skiing, I mean hell look at the injuries people do skiing down a mountain which fucks them up for the rest of their life?
This banning shit could get extreme by the "I know whats best for you" self-righteous gym dogs (who aren't all that in the first place).
Do bad you like the sun tan and work outside now got skin cancer fuck you my health insurance premium shouldn't pay for you. Look at me I am as healthy and pale as a ghost and you should live like that too. I can't help if you are a dumb ass and work out in the sun all your life or like hanging at the pool.....................

 

[Just_Believe18]

On some level liberals believe that every thing bad should be prohibited by law, and everything good should be required. We can create a perfect society if we just pass enough laws. That is what is so scary about liberal environmentalism and global warming. It will become an ideology for regulating the details of our lives.
Yeah, yeah, Republicans continue traditional sexual laws, changing slowly, but beyond that they are mostly libertarians.
The NY law is not very good science. It should be obvious that the single biggest cause if obesity among the young is pizza. It is full of fat and far more calorie laden than coke. Parents serve it, schools serve it and kids can pick up the phone and have it delivered. The anti-pizza law will be next. Obviously we need a food Czar to decide what we are allowed to eat.

My views in dealing with the general public and children have evolved on this issue for a number of years. I have concluded that it is in the government's best interest to campaign against any national epidemic. That includes, according to every health institution in this country, the national epidemic that is obesity.

We have a food network that is subsidized by the federal government and unregulated by corporations to be poisonous to our health. Yes, poisonous. Unnatural chemicals, preservatives, oils, fats, and syrups are infused and distributed into our food on a mass scale. This compounded accumulation over time has been proven in medical studies to literally add pounds of fat onto human beings that creates obesity.

Calories, in essence, can be abused to the point of being as hazardous as any controlled substance. There should be no reason why the Cheesecake Factory should be serving this:

http://eatthis.menshealth.com/slide/1-worst-food-america?slideshow=185560

Cheesecake Factory Bistro Shrimp Pasta
2,730 calories
N/A g fat (78 g saturated fat)
919 mg sodium

The Cheesecake Factory has earned the title of America's Worst Restaurant for the 4th year running. No establishment better represents the confluence of factors that have saddled America with an ever-worsening obesity crisis. First, portion sizes are large enough to feed an NFL offensive line. Second, the use of cheap sources of flavor—oils, butter, cream, salt, and sugar—knows no limit. Finally, the percentage of dishes fit for consumption is absurdly small (we count 8 on a menu of more than 200 dishes). Amidst the carnage, one dish sinks below all the rest: the Bistro Shrimp Pasta. Tangled up in these noodles are more calories than you'd consume if you ate three sticks of butter for dinner.

A shrimp pasta should never exceed your daily intake of calories. There are millions of Americans all over this country that are presented with limited food options that are never explained in how hazardous they can be to their lives. Food in this country is the true number one killer, and its manifestation is obesity.

 

[JayQueer]

I feel like Chance started an interesting thread, but like I expected, it has deteriorated into just another JUB attack thread on obese gay guys like myself

Why doesn't anyone start a thread about the fact that gay men suffer from eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia at comparable levels than that of women??

It's just like when churches full of straight people make sermons against homosexuality. It's easy to be an athletic white twink with a spray tan and pick on obese gay dudes because they don't meet your standards for desirability...

 

[Corny]

sure .. everybody has the right to be fat. but if someone deliberately chooses to live extremely unhealthy, any insurance or public healthcare company should have the right to deny you payments/membership.

 

[Just_Believe18]

^ I disagree, Corny. We are trying to emerge from that abyss of denying people coverage based on their health. That is no different than taking gay men off the insurance rolls if they contract HIV for "living extremely unhealthy" sex lives. Everyone has the right to health care. However, the indicators of what is contributing to obesity in this country need to be curtailed and regulated. No restaurant should serve a customer a 2,700 calorie meal with the equivalent of eating 3 sticks of butter. That's poison.

 

[Benvolio]

Another good reason to fight off public health insurance schemes. The next step will be to regulate Ourlives to save insurance.

 

[GhostMost]

^ I disagree, Corny. We are trying to emerge from that abyss of denying people coverage based on their health. That is no different than taking gay men off the insurance rolls if they contract HIV for "living extremely unhealthy" sex lives. Everyone has the right to health care. However, the indicators of what is contributing to obesity in this country need to be curtailed and regulated. No restaurant should serve a customer a 2,700 calorie meal with the equivalent of eating 3 sticks of butter. That's poison.

Yes let's start eliminating choices.
Do you understand what would happen if the government restricted businesses like that? Read Atlas Shrugged because no one can argue against that fact, and it displays an accurate account of what the world would be like if the government were to do this.
Don't go to the restaurant, it's your choice. Or even better boycott the damn place and spread the word, but once you get the government to do your dirty work then you will lose respect with the people who agree with you or believe in you.

 

[Just_Believe18]

Yes let's start eliminating choices.
Do you understand what would happen if the government restricted businesses like that? Read Atlas Shrugged because no one can argue against that fact, and it displays an accurate account of what the world would be like if the government were to do this.
Don't go to the restaurant, it's your choice. Or even better boycott the damn place and spread the word, but once you get the government to do your dirty work then you will lose respect with the people who agree with you or believe in you.

You are not providing topical evidence to support your reasoning here. A novel does not directly correlate to the obesity epidemic this country is facing. Nor have you addressed the points I have made. It's not just one restaurant, it's the general food supply that is federally subsidized and unregulated that causes people to get fat. Choice is already stifled and limited for a person to decide on food options. Every fast food chain promotes and sells food that is slowly killing Americans. When the same food systems are exported (McDonalds for example) to other nations, that nation suddenly sees a rise in obesity.

Let's take a look at our food export system in comparison to our own. Please read this article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/1228781...hats-french-fry-fat-varies-city/#.T8vlie0hsR8

A large order of french fries at a New York City McDonald's contained 30 percent more trans fat than the same order from an Atlanta McDonald's.
Partially hydrogenated vegetable oil is cooking oil that has been injected with hydrogen to harden it and give it a longer shelf life. Switching to liquid vegetable oils such as canola, corn, olive or soy eliminates the trans fat, as has been done in Denmark under a 2004 law allowing only a minuscule amount of trans fat in foods.

Trans fat raises bad cholesterol and lowers good cholesterol. Eating just 5 grams of it per day increases the risk of heart disease 25 percent, research shows.

In the article, one cardiologist called this practice "metabolic poison." There should be no reason why food corporations are injecting these kinds of unnatural chemicals and oils into our food system. As you can see, it's not necessary to the quality and taste of their food to have these unnatural substances in them. Business sells healthier prepared burgers in other cities that aren't increasing consumer heart disease by 25%.

 

[JayQueer]

^ I disagree, Corny. We are trying to emerge from that abyss of denying people coverage based on their health. That is no different than taking gay men off the insurance rolls if they contract HIV for "living extremely unhealthy" sex lives. Everyone has the right to health care. However, the indicators of what is contributing to obesity in this country need to be curtailed and regulated. No restaurant should serve a customer a 2,700 calorie meal with the equivalent of eating 3 sticks of butter. That's poison.

Ok then.

Then you would surely be in favor of a law that mandates that all gay men should be required to submit to regular HIV testing, and all gay men must use a condom when having sex with another man. All openly gay men who are sexually active should be required to show proof that they regularly purchase condoms, and provide the government with regular HIV test results.

In addition, the government should shut down all gay bathhouses, saunas, and "spas", like they did during the early years of the HIV/AIDS crisis in the 1980s.

You would be on board with this idea?


Basically you want the government out of your bedroom when it comes to gay sex and preventing HIV transmission, but you surely want big government when it comes to controlling obesity.

 

[GhostMost]

You are not providing topical evidence to support your reasoning here. A novel does not directly correlate to the obesity epidemic this country is facing. Nor have you addressed the points I have made. It's not just one restaurant, it's the general food supply that is federally subsidized and unregulated that causes people to get fat. Choice is already stifled and limited for a person to decide on food options. Every fast food chain promotes and sells food that is slowly killing Americans. When the same food systems are exported (McDonalds for example) to other nations, that nation suddenly sees a rise in obesity.

Let's take a look at our food export system in comparison to our own. Please read this article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/1228781...hats-french-fry-fat-varies-city/#.T8vlie0hsR8


In the article, one cardiologist called this practice "metabolic poison." There should be no reason why food corporations are injecting these kinds of unnatural chemicals and oils into our food system. As you can see, it's not necessary to the quality and taste of their food to have these unnatural substances in them. Business sells healthier prepared burgers in other cities that aren't increasing consumer heart disease by 25%.

You have taken a good first step by presenting your opinion to the public, now follow through with it to a larger group to get what you want across. You aren't powerless towards these companies. I don't need to cite with the statements I make because I make very easily stated, no bullshit, common sense worthy statements so it's very easy to understand without links. So I must ask, and this will be without a link, do you eat at these fast food restaurants?