The stereotypical Gay Man

[xbuzzerx]

Actually I must admit you make some very good points there, particularly 'Not by drawing a line between the effeminate guys and me. But by drawing a circle around both of us.'

I get you Benjoe. I wish there was more of this too, the bolded part.

 

[ruivinho]

Is he what you'd call high-profile? I had to Google him as I'd no idea who he was. I honestly don't think I've ever seen anything he was in.

He is pretty well-known and appreciated (in the sense that he is admired) by many straight guys. In that sense, he does have a great influence in how gay guys are perceived.

He plays the role of a womanizer (ironically) in the comedy show How I Met Your Mother, which is probably the most famous comedy show amongst 18-35yrs old nowadays...

 

[Adrock-JD]

 

[ruivinho]

This. The assumption that gay people need to prove straight people that we're "just like them" and "normal" implies that any deviation from heteronormativity is "abnormal" and so I find it inherently self-loathing and homophobic. We don't need to pretend to be straight for them to like us, we need to teach them to like us any way we chose to be.

THIS.
It really saddens me that many gay guys don't get this.
I met this guy, in a gay bar, who said "I hate gay guys", and basically said how he hated fems (he did not explicity use this expression), and how overly dramatic they were, blablabla
It actually worked in my favor (lol) because he liked me because he did not considered me to be feminine,
but the sad thing is that he eventually he said that he liked me because i was real.
As if the other guys weren't!!!!

And the amount of people i know who "are okay with gay guys so long as they aren't queens" is quite scary...

Also, what the fuck does gaga mean with "don't be a drag just be a queen"?
and what the fuck does she mean with IT doesn't not matter if you love him or Him?
This kind of celebrities who PRETEND they want to support the gay community (in order to profit)
but rather harm that community disgust me, and many gay guys seem to buy into this shit,
(don't get me started with katy perry....)
but that's another subject i guess

 

[Adrock-JD]

You met a guy in a gay bar who said he hates gays.

I'm not surprised.

We are our own worst enemies.

Self hatred goes way back. It's a learned behavior and society does an excellent job of teaching it.
Gender roles aren't easily bent, even for gay people.

There are worse things in life, however.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

society does an excellent job woteva society is they a do most excellant set up or so amazin stooooooopid wot clear show any century

throw out word GAY no idea wot ta do wen folk go wot GAY? we no evan figa out male ans female yet
* wot they make more of um? *
yea it turn out male female tagetda make more of um
* how many? *
1000000000000000000
* too many get rid of a few *
ooh how do dat?
* dunno just do it *
ooh salutes ya great cneturys

anyway

here a Q wot a do where ta send figa da Q ? not a cultures heads a tops all da ways wot figa nots or if a do like da game ans enjoy anoda round a awsum play

ooh well

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

not it matta

but suggest if millions a folk no got GAY sort out fit their shoes

no blame gay go get ya country sort out their sex first

mabye fe othda thangs wot obvious ta alley centaurres

poor gay word ya look bit smahed up ans right fucked ova

- or why no make new labels fit every idea wot MAN like a doins save folk lot time -
Please tick box befor enta
- HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA -

thankyou

 

[ixthrock]

So I've read yet another thread this morning where someone tells us that he doesn't have the 'stereotypical' traits of a gay man.

That he's athletic. Masculine.

I've read so many recently about homos who love football and beer and wearing sloppy clothes and farting that I would like to announce for the gay congregation....these are actually now the stereotypical traits of the gay male and the most stereotypical trait of all is assuring everyone that they are not a stereotypical gay man...

Oh, goody, another one of these threads! My favorite! I'll get straight (so to speak) to your gooey raspberry center in a minute, but first let me join the slogfest on this tripe:

...let's talk about gay pride events....

Oh, do, lets.

First, you need to understand that the opinions you trot out here are nothing new for us - not to this forum, and certainly not to the great ongoing gay dialogue worldwide.

Secondly, you need to understand that this viewpoint, (hmmm, am I coining a new term when I call it assimilationist? Of course not.) is generally dismissed by most reasonable people, as you've seen above. The only thing I have to add to the discussion is that when any of us (straight, gay, whatever) hides our light under a bushel basket, we all lose. When we all knock off our inconvenient edges, we lose our individuality. And without extraordinary individuality, we have no Einstein or Mozart, No Haring or Wojnarowicz, No Donny the Punk and no Harry Hay. But you know this. Really, I think the only thing you don't know is that these ideas apply to pride parades as well - actually, no - I think you've gotten that point by now as well. Now what you don't know (and really, it's not your fault - it's just a lack of experience - experience actually being out, experience participating in the Great Gay Dialogue) is just how often these "pride parades make teh gays look bad" opinions are expressed and how tiringly predictable are the people who express them. Don't be one of them. Now. Carry on, keep in the dialogue, learn some more history - learn enough to roll your eyes at the important bits, and dare someone else to take the pebble out of your hand (in other words, teach - some of us are getting quite hoarse)

Now, Rareboy - yeah, it's still danceable after all these years, eh? who cares if it's stupid-looking; it's great exercise. Actually, I've developed the opinion that the preponderance of guys that aren't your stereoptypical Gay (I'm not one, and you aren't either, are you rareboy?)is merely a symptom of the fact that not one of us (ideally) is a stereotypical anything. ... it's just a lot of guys aren't aware just how redundant it is to continuously attempt to draw attention to the fact. Thanks for doing the tiringly repetitive work of letting them know.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I'll be the odd man out.

I think there was 1 post in this entire thread that justified the reaction that's been almost universal. And I think this is a topic where a lot of gay guys have to just sort of "sit down and say nothing" because anything we say gets interpreted as str8top's perspective. All or nothing.

My two cents.

 

[Rolyo85]

Also, what the fuck does gaga mean with "don't be a drag just be a queen"?
and what the fuck does she mean with IT doesn't not matter if you love him or Him?
This kind of celebrities who PRETEND they want to support the gay community (in order to profit)
but rather harm that community disgust me, and many gay guys seem to buy into this shit,
(don't get me started with katy perry....)
but that's another subject i guess

Um, yes, it is. And I don't get your outrage. Gaga has done a lot for us beside her songs. The meaning of "don't be a drag, just be a queen" is to not be a drag in the sense of "boring, buzzkill" and the like. And the other is just "it doesn't matter if you love a dude or God, either or both is fine".

I mean, huh?

 

[Kahaih]

So I've read yet another thread this morning where someone tells us that he doesn't have the 'stereotypical' traits of a gay man.

That he's athletic. Masculine.

I've read so many recently about homos who love football and beer and wearing sloppy clothes and farting that I would like to announce for the gay congregation....these are actually now the stereotypical traits of the gay male and the most stereotypical trait of all is assuring everyone that they are not a stereotypical gay man...

Thanks for the memo.

I’ll try, but please don’t expect too much too quickly.

‘Dapper’ has become a way of life for me, and beer makes me pee in the shower.

 

[freefall]

I would say that in many societies and for many people, being gay remains a stigma - something some people are not proud of due to fear of being shunned or self-fearing/loathing to be due to traits contrary to what they believe in and thus would hide as tight as possible. The society has molded molds for us that anything which is not majority is deemed 'abnormal'. For masculine gay men, it's no difference - maybe it's even harder because the society grants them even less chance to be openly out compared to the 'stereotypical' 'less-masculine' gay men.

People seems to forget that what matters is: a). you have XY chromosome, b). you have a penis, AND c). you like shagging dudes. An identity is an identity; stereotyping cannot diminish the value of an identity. Some people just don't fall under categories and what unites them is a single factor: identity. Either you're fem or butch, once you're gay, you're gay.

Thus a good quote I learnt lately: "Truth is singular. Its versions are mistruths."

I bet the vast majority of gay guys are just average guys that just happen to be gay.

This is very true. When I came out to a bunch of friends, they were surprised and compared me to a quite effeminate guy who turned out to be actually gay. Quite a surprise, but I thought I was obviously gay to people who know me. However...

My point is that things have got much better. Being gay has gone from being criminal to being extremely shameful to now just generally being felt of in a negative light.

Many countries still put gay men in prison and give them death sentences. In 'milder' conservative communities, gayness equals exile and living like a hermit.

 

[Rolyo85]

I have never understood this line: "the vast majority of gay guys are just average guys that just happen to be gay." What does that even mean? I know for a fact every gay guy posting here said and did things as a kid because he was gay. Thought of certain things and not others because he was gay. Hung out with certain people and not others, because he was gay. Took certain classes, moved to certain neighborhood, chose certain jobs because he was gay. Whether in or out of the closet.

Being gay is not something that "just so happen to be so" about us. It is at the very core of who we are from the very beginning of our lives, and it has shaped us more than perhaps ANY other single factor while growing up. Anyone who wants to think of it in "just another thing" terms is deluding himself. No, you don't "just so happen" to be gay. Being gay is THIS HUGE AWESOME THING about you. Fucking embrace it!

 

[eastofeden]

Note to self: Don't mention football on this site again.

 

[eastofeden]

Why do oppressed groups of people oppress each other? I think more people need to ask themselves that question.

If you don't treat other gay people as individuals and you insist on marginalizing them you are part of the problem.

 

[freefall]

Of course it's different... and it's not harder at all. It's easier for "masculine" gay men to be on the downlow and to be in the closet. Feminine gay men take the brunt of criticism and abuse in this society... and in other countries.... and then they take crap from others in the gay community for being feminine.

I think you mistook my post. I meant masculine gay men may face harder challenge in coming out and not 'str8 acting'. Just clarifying.

 

[freefall]

I have never understood this line: "the vast majority of gay guys are just average guys that just happen to be gay." What does that even mean? I know for a fact every gay guy posting here said and did things as a kid because he was gay. Thought of certain things and not others because he was gay. Hung out with certain people and not others, because he was gay. Took certain classes, moved to certain neighborhood, chose certain jobs because he was gay. Whether in or out of the closet.

I believe this means that not only the fem guys are gay. Not only the buffed men who spend times at gyms are gay. Not only those who are fashion conscious and indulge in theatre or musical things are gay. Not only masculine football players are potentially gay. There are lots of people who are just daily everyman, without any defining traits, who are gay. The society has created so many molds to which many people will never fit in.

 

[Rolyo85]

I believe this means that not only the fem guys are gay. Not only the buffed men who spend times at gyms are gay. Not only those who are fashion conscious and indulge in theatre or musical things are gay. Not only masculine football players are potentially gay. There are lots of people who are just daily everyman, without any defining traits, who are gay. The society has created so many molds to which many people will never fit in.

Society has created many stereotypes, and in the end even "average" (whatever that means) guys fall in them in one way or another. However, an average gay guy is NOT like an average straight guy in a multitude of ways, and the reason I don't like the "just so happens to" mentality is that it is a gateway to denying that you're any different from straight people. You are this random straight dude, yunno, who just so happens to... No thanks. That's crap, it's internalized homophobia, and I'm calling it out.

 

[freefall]

^Uh, so bitter. Take a mint lozenge.

Being gay is not just 'something' but I don't think 'being gay' is anything HUGE in particular. Sexual orientation is after all an identity, something to identify yourself with - it has the same place as gender, gender/sexual identity, race, skin colour, personal belief, age, etc. I don't see why people need to make such a great hullabaloo over it. So you're gay. So what. So you're straight. So what. So you're bisexual. So what. So you're asexual. So what.

But again, it's your choice to see 'being gay' as something really glamorous, something containing a secret mission which you have to sustain on a high-alert level, plus a private beach with hammock and that delicious cocktail in a coconut at the end of it, that someone cannot just be gay without any reason.

 

[eastofeden]

I see gay as being a non issue...and I love football...so that means I have internalized homophobia? What a load of crap.