The stereotypical Gay Man

[stutter032]

I honestly don't think being gay is a big deal. Yes I'm on this forum to reach out and talk & read about things that i have in common with people who are like me. I also have a stutter and I belong to a stuttering forum. I don't fit into the stereotype of your typical stutterer, I'm very outgoing, don't mind speaking in public, My college job has been a server. Being gay has always been there, its normal for me. Just as much as my stutter is. Statements that say being gay has molded everything about you, job, major, music selection is true but that's true for straight people also. I doubt heterosexual people pick there dream career because there heterosexual and if they do it's all subconscious. Why would that be any different then you or me? I have been out since 8th grade I'm now in my senior year of college. But i'm constantly in situations where I'm not sure if I should mention I'm gay, if people will pick it up there self. Some times I wish it was more obviously for me, like my stutter is. Usally when I first meet someone my anxiety is high, all I'm thinking is don't stutter, don't stutter. Then i due, then it's almost like a relief at that point. Then I calm down because they know I stutter and it goes away. I speak fluently because its out on the table and who cares? Most of my friends are heterosexually guys, I like drinking and playing video games. All my friends know I'm a homo and crack jokes on me just like we crack joke on them. Maybe I'm preoccupied in my head with the judgement of my stutter, but being gay isn't a big deal in my mind. I don't overly think about it when I'm making choices, I just make them. I don't feel at all like I'm trying to hide or dodge being gay, I just do what I like, but it seems some people don't pick up that i'm gay right away. Some times I really wish it was more transparent.

 

[Rolyo85]

One, EVERY job is equally ok for a heterosexual in a heteronormative society (and they are still afraid of being thought gay when they go into fashion for example), and two, did you seriously compare being gay to having a stutter?

Of course being straight is also completely defining of a straight person's personality on every conceivable level. Except, it's not traumatic and they'd never even think of denying it because they don't see a problem with being straight defining them.

 

[stutter032]

no not trying to compare being gay to anything you couldn't. I follow my heart that's it. Yes maybe i like things, and due things because I'm gay but I don't put much thought into besides that. I sincerely due things because I want to, or based on my aspirations and morals. I don't think my life revolves around being gay. I'm sure everything in it, does and can go back to me being gay but it just happens. I just live life. I've had this conversation with other people and the feel same as many of you due as well. I just think i grew up in a liberal town, and had great support system that i didn't even know i had until later on in life, looking back talking to people. I was never alienated or bullied or treated any different. I was always upfront and I remember when me and boy friend came out it was like ok really? wow cool. that was it. Maybe I'm in the minority in feeling this way, but I don't over think being gay or think every thing in my life is a direct result of being gay. Its my life its what i make of it.

and when i say when me and boyfriend came out, it was us just confirming it, i never said i wasn't gay or denied it before hand. i knew since i was little and that's all i knew.

 

[Rolyo85]

But that's the thing. I never said being gay has to mean a great deal to you. It can be the single greatest drive in your life and it could STILL not be a major day-to-day factor in your life. Which is why I don't even get why people are arguing about it.

 

[freefall]

As for why men are arguing, there has been a long history of gays being defined, and therefore labelled and mislabelled by straight society. That didn't feel fair, nor did the stereotypes fit comfortably or accurately.

When gay men create the stereotype (politically left, sexually open, gender neutral, feminine, etc.), there isn't necessarily any more happiness on the part of the men being defined and therefore limited and misrepresented.

Any stereotype of gay men is a problem, as is any stereotype labelled straight or breeder. Both orientations are endlessly varied, so neither can be fairly stereotyped, hence the arguments.

This. So much this. You said it even better than I did.

 

[eastofeden]

Of course stuttering could be compared with homosexuality: both can be the source of ostracization.

As for why men are arguing, there has been a long history of gays being defined, and therefore labelled and mislabelled by straight society. That didn't feel fair, nor did the stereotypes fit comfortably or accurately.

When gay men create the stereotype (politically left, sexually open, gender neutral, feminine, etc.), there isn't necessarily any more happiness on the part of the men being defined and therefore limited and misrepresented.

Any stereotype of gay men is a problem, as is any stereotype labelled straight or breeder. Both orientations are endlessly varied, so neither can be fairly stereotyped, hence the arguments.

^^^THIS^^^ Thanks for saying that. You summed up my thoughts beautifully.

 

[Rolyo85]

What people often fail to grasp is that just because you've been put under a label, doesn't mean that you're confined by it, or by its narrowest definition. And like Giancarlo said, if you have a problem with the shallow perception of the label, do something about it. Don't fight against the label itself, that's idiotic. Women didn't insist on people to stop calling them women, they went and got equal rights for themselves...

 

[eastofeden]

Any stereotype? So all those descriptions... political left, gender neutral, feminine, etc... are problems? That's some severely distorted logic and utter BS. Lets just slap around more blanket statements about those who happen to be politically left or feminine while espousing fake outrage about being misrepresented...

It isn't about decriptions...it is about stereotypes. I am far left liberal...that is a description...but I have never hugged a fucking tree or wet my bed. THOSE are stereotypes.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Of course stuttering could be compared with homosexuality: both can be the source of ostracization.

As for why men are arguing, there has been a long history of gays being defined, and therefore labelled and mislabelled by straight society. That didn't feel fair, nor did the stereotypes fit comfortably or accurately.

When gay men create the stereotype (politically left, sexually open, gender neutral, feminine, etc.), there isn't necessarily any more happiness on the part of the men being defined and therefore limited and misrepresented.

Any stereotype of gay men is a problem, as is any stereotype labelled straight or breeder. Both orientations are endlessly varied, so neither can be fairly stereotyped, hence the arguments.

I have to "this" this as well.

What people often fail to grasp is that just because you've been put under a label, doesn't mean that you're confined by it, or by its narrowest definition.

That's true. But look what happens in this thread when you clarify how the label doesn't fit you. The words "internalized homophobia" and "heteronormative influences" come up.

 

[eastofeden]

READ HIS POST AGAIN.

He didn't name anything a bout hugging a fucking tree. He said politically left, gender neutral, sexually open, feminine are all negative stereotypes. And I say BULLSHIT.

I did read it again and I can see how you interpreted it literally...and if that is what he meant I would ask to clarify...but I think he meant the stereotypes 'associated with' versus their entire existence being a stereotype...

The whole reason I announce I am liberal left...far left socialist territory actually...is because so many Republcians tried to define me and so many of my fellow liberals changed their name to progressive to avoid the negative stereotype. I maintain that their stereotypes do not define who I am...nor am I ashamed of it... and I will not be bullied.

 

[eastofeden]

No. He said that "politically left, sexually open, gender neutral, feminine, etc" were the stereotypes. Lets not try to split hairs. He is incorrect. Interpreted it literally? I interpreted as it was written.

I do not think he meant it the way it was written...I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt. If I am wrong...so be it.

 

[ruivinho]

You met a guy in a gay bar who said he hates gays.

I'm not surprised.

We are our own worst enemies.

Self hatred goes way back. It's a learned behavior and society does an excellent job of teaching it.
Gender roles aren't easily bent, even for gay people.

There are worse things in life, however.

The weird thing is that he is out since he's 15....and he's 23 now.
8 years on and he hasn't dealt with his internalized homophobia even though he is more than out...

I know it is normal at first, but after 8 years you would expect he knew better

 

[ruivinho]

Um, yes, it is. And I don't get your outrage. Gaga has done a lot for us beside her songs. The meaning of "don't be a drag, just be a queen" is to not be a drag in the sense of "boring, buzzkill" and the like. And the other is just "it doesn't matter if you love a dude or God, either or both is fine".

I mean, huh?

i was genuinely asking for the first one lol, ok now it makes sense
as for the second it implies some mutal exclusivity, i'm not sure where she mentions either BOTH but i guess i'm being nitpicky....

 

[Rolyo85]

Of course stuttering could be compared with homosexuality: both can be the source of ostracization.

As for why men are arguing, there has been a long history of gays being defined, and therefore labelled and mislabelled by straight society. That didn't feel fair, nor did the stereotypes fit comfortably or accurately.

When gay men create the stereotype (politically left, sexually open, gender neutral, feminine, etc.), there isn't necessarily any more happiness on the part of the men being defined and therefore limited and misrepresented.

Any stereotype of gay men is a problem, as is any stereotype labelled straight or breeder. Both orientations are endlessly varied, so neither can be fairly stereotyped, hence the arguments.

First of all, comparing stuttering to homosexuality is laughable to the point of pulling a muscle. While both could have vaguely similar effects (in type, nowhere near in strength) in very limited environments (like school or some redneck bar), one is still a very surface thing that influences far fewer aspects of your life (namely - your perception of genders). Also in many (most?) cases - curable.

Second, labels are NOT stereotypes and the stereotypes do not equal the label. They are attached to a label, interchangeable, dependent on context and environment. Gay might have the "politically left" stereotype now, but if this whole thing involved the Democrat party of the Civil War era, it wouldn't. Yet it would still mean "romantically and sexually attracted to one's own gender". That's the difference between label and stereotype. Running from the label is not the way to get rid of the stereotypes, it's fighting the stereotypes that does that.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Second, labels are NOT stereotypes and the stereotypes do not equal the label. They are attached to a label, interchangeable,

I think this is true. I still think distancing yourself from the stereotype results in a discussion about internal homophobia and heteronormative influences, almost guaranteed, in any crowd of gay guys.

That's not an attack at anyone-- it's just an observation based on all my experiences around gay guys, always, pretty much.

So perhaps a better way to attack the subject is: why is it we all agree stereotypes are bad, but when you try to get away from one that the gay community validates as "good", people feel threatened?

 

[Rolyo85]

Hmmm, I could only speak for myself on the subject, but personally, I don't consider most of these stereotypes as bad. There is nothing wrong with being into fashion, or working in it, or wearing girly clothes, or being more feminine, or having lots and lots of sex with a bunch of guys (as long as you're responsible and safe), or having tons of product in your hair, or loving musicals, or speaking with "gay" inflection, or any of the cliche gay stereotypes. And I say this as someone who barely exhibits a third of the usual suspects, if even those (25 years in denial do not for a bright flame make...).

So I have to ask - why would you care about distancing yourself from those stereotypes if you do not consider them threatening and "bad"? And how is that not - at least to an extent - a sign of internalized homophobia? I mean, I do not care if people will assume things about me based on me being gay. I only care about who I actually am, and we all know what assuming makes of you.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Hmm... I think I know what it is, for me. It's that I absolutely recoil at someone assuming that simply by some kind of genetic predestiny, whether it's based on my sexual orientation or my ethnic or national background or anything else, "of course" I'm into x or I'm "like" x or whatever else. In general it's been pretty untrue, in my case, and I guess my intelligence and individuality chafes at the notion that "well of course because you're x, you got into y."

It's not that I hate gay guys who are into fashion. I hate someone who thinks I'm so simple and so predictable that because I dig guys I read all the fashion mags and put together great outfits. I think the idea of some sort of genetic predestiny is what bothers me the most.

 

[Rolyo85]

Hmm... I think I know what it is, for me. It's that I absolutely recoil at someone assuming that simply by some kind of genetic predestiny, whether it's based on my sexual orientation or my ethnic or national background or anything else, "of course" I'm into x or I'm "like" x or whatever else. In general it's been pretty untrue, in my case, and I guess my intelligence and individuality chafes at the notion that "well of course because you're x, you got into y."

It's not that I hate gay guys who are into fashion. I hate someone who thinks I'm so simple and so predictable that because I dig guys I read all the fashion mags and put together great outfits. I think the idea of some sort of genetic predestiny is what bothers me the most.

Ah, so it's not internalized homophobia, but simple insecurity


...he joksed



But seriously, why should that be a problem? Laugh at the assumers or prove them wrong, but why give them power over you by caring what they think?

 

[xbuzzerx]

That's my point, rolyo. Why are those stereotypes bad? Like being into fashion and such? People need to stop complaining about other gay men and move on with their lives. And certainly criticizing and having the need to distance oneself from these gay men indicates insecurity and internalized homophobia. At least that's my take on it.

It's not about them being bad. It's that they don't represent me at all.

 

[roadtripboy]

All the folks who claim they're not stereotypical gay men remind me of a quote Dan Savage made in one of his books. He claims his boyfriend can't pass for straight, but he (Dan) can. He seems to base this on the fact he wears jeans and a t shirt all the time.

The truth is: Dan Savage can not pass for straight. As soon as you hear him speak you know he's gay. Most of us have a trait that makes us pretty easy to spot.