The stereotypical Gay Man

[G-Lexington]

It's not about them being bad. It's that they don't represent me at all.

They don't represent me, either, but I don't mind people assuming they do. They're just wrong.

Lex

 

[xbuzzerx]

They don't represent me, either, but I don't mind people assuming they do. They're just wrong.

Lex

Ah, but do you mind when people believe the negative ones?

"Hey, gay guys are promiscuous aren't they? I wanted to talk to you about that..."

 

[freefall]

^I think you missed the point. From the beginning, people are complaining about stereotypes not because they dislike being fit into them, it's because many DO NOT fit in them and it's annoying when people constantly assume you what you're not (str8 when you're gay or vice versa).

How do you feel if someone says to you, "You can't be gay because you're not fashionable, you like sports, and you hate Judy Garland."?

Not following stereotypes is good. However, stereotypes are one of the little misperceptions, because apparently people thinks only men who either are feminine, fashion-conscious, working in business considered non-manly, or dislikes sports as gay, and any men out of that scope are not.

Hmmm, I could only speak for myself on the subject, but personally, I don't consider most of these stereotypes as bad. There is nothing wrong with being into fashion, or working in it, or wearing girly clothes, or being more feminine, or having lots and lots of sex with a bunch of guys (as long as you're responsible and safe), or having tons of product in your hair, or loving musicals, or speaking with "gay" inflection, or any of the cliche gay stereotypes. And I say this as someone who barely exhibits a third of the usual suspects, if even those (25 years in denial do not for a bright flame make...).

When you speak of those things that way, they are not stereotypes. They are traits/characteristics.
Identifying someone as feminine is not stereotyping. Saying someone is feminine isn't as well. Assuming he's gay because he's feminine is.

 

[xbuzzerx]

How do you feel if someone says to you, "You can't be gay because you're not fashionable, you like sports, and you hate Judy Garland."?

People have said exactly that.

People have also called me an internalized homophobe for simple declarations that the stereotypes don't fit me when they try to include me in them or make assumptions based off them. That's not a passive aggressive statement about this thread or about JUB. It's from my experiences in general.

 

[jslvr05]

People have said exactly that.

People have also called me an internalized homophobe for simple declarations that the stereotypes don't fit me when they try to include me in them or make assumptions based off them. That's not a passive aggressive statement about this thread or about JUB. It's from my experiences in general.

I get this part of what you're saying. It's as if, because you don't fit the stereotype(s), people think that you have consciously cultivated a non-gay "persona," making you an internalized homophobe.

Correct?

 

[Rolyo85]

Like I said, people can stereotype me all they want. The ones worth the effort will soon enough find out they've been wrong, and the ones who aren't are always good to have some sport with.

And I can give GREAT advice to people who think I'm promiscuous ^_^

Like Lexington said - they're just wrong. Why should that matter to me?

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

well now awsum 1stworlds awsum woteva
got gay babys
gay boys

no man still tryfiga out nothin ans females sittin on their face thinkin sumthang but got wait anoda centurys ta OOH so dat it

maybe da few dozen on internet 2 wot crack da jaws a death of neva endin crap

cheer up ans let gay sum SPACE on internet 1 ans 2 ta breath!

thankyou

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

mor words

man no idea wot is anyway go figa dat OUT
250000 years ans
* duh? *

man oh man ans Man complain women no got brain

 

[Rolyo85]

Ostracizing is ostracizing, so the comparison with stuttering is easily comparable for most people. That you don't like the comparison is noted.

No, ostracizing is not ostracizing. Ostracizing is ten thousand types of ostracizing, some running much, much deeper than others. And ostracizing is only ONE aspect -and not the main one - in which being gay defines our lives.

As for the bait, I'll bite. Yes, the stereotype IS bad for many traits. If we are not attention-seeking, affected lisping, swirly, girly men, we are certainly entitled to be offended for being assumed to be. The same holds true if someone assumes that one is rude if one is from the Northeast, or stupid if from the South, or vapid if one is from California. Being attracted to men is not the same as embracing the feminine, etc.

Whereas there are people who are entitled to be rude, stupid, and vapid, we don't have to happily roll over when someone misapplies the assumption to us.

There are men who are happy to be effeminate, and we can be happy for them to be whatever they want without us cherishing or valuing their choices. To be in a position of disliking those affectations is NOT tantamount to homophobia, shame, repression, or anything other that our right to be what we choose in presenting without having to take on labels we do not choose.

By like logic, one could argue that blacks should have never resented being caricatured as Uncle Toms or whatnot, as those were lovable characters, weren't they? And, after all, they actually did represent some of the slaves and former slaves who had adopted those affectations. So, what's the harm in caucasians stereotyping blacks as poor-but-happy folk who loved to sing?

Stereotypes are wrong, and any contortionist PC defense of them doesn't make them any more acceptable, no matter what cross-accusations in the gay populace might be lobbed in order to out suspected closet cases on the other side of the argument.

Ok, I REALLY hate answering with one-liners to long thought out posts, but I'm sorry - which part of my short and concise explanation about the difference between "label" and "stereotype" was unclear to you? And why tell me stuff I've already responded to? Yes, you are free to dislike a stereotype attached to a label. But the way to deal with it is to attack/change the stereotype, not trying to escape the label.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I get this part of what you're saying. It's as if, because you don't fit the stereotype(s), people think that you have consciously cultivated a non-gay "persona," making you an internalized homophobe.

Correct?

Yessir.

I've literally had people say stuff like "What do you MEAN you don't like Glee? Are you embarrassed of being gay or something?"

No... I just don't like Glee. lol.

Made up example based off countless real life exchanges, but you could insert any stereotype really. I remember once it was something about me not wanting to go shoe shopping. Insert incredulity.

 

[G-Lexington]

Ah, but do you mind when people believe the negative ones?

"Hey, gay guys are promiscuous aren't they? I wanted to talk to you about that..."

Not really. If they ask, I'll correct them. If they want to think I fuck someone new every night (while gossiping about the last one), that's their concern.

And I don't think anybody thinks my crappy fashion sense and indoor lacrosse fandom is cultivated to appear straight. Maybe because I'm pretty open about not being straight? No idea.

Lex

 

[xbuzzerx]

Not really. If they ask, I'll correct them. If they want to think I fuck someone new every night (while gossiping about the last one), that's their concern.

And I don't think anybody thinks my crappy fashion sense and indoor lacrosse fandom is cultivated to appear straight. Maybe because I'm pretty open about not being straight? No idea.

Lex

But Lex, maybe you WOULD have better fashion sense if you were more self accepting.

I kid.

 

[G-Lexington]

I have long denied my inner...

...Jesus, I'm such a bad homo, I can't even think of a gay designer. Who's that Project Runway fellow?

Lex

 

[xbuzzerx]

I have long denied my inner...

...Jesus, I'm such a bad homo, I can't even think of a gay designer. Who's that Project Runway fellow?

Lex

Erm. Uhh......
....................
the chick married to Seal.

That's all I got.

 

[Scealle]

I have long denied my inner...

...Jesus, I'm such a bad homo, I can't even think of a gay designer. Who's that Project Runway fellow?

Lex

Haha me neither. The guy who always likes to call himself "fierce" (winner on that show ). Can't remeber his name. And probably the white hair guys with glasses who's judging the competition? Other than that no clue lol. Oddly my str8 friends are more interested in fashion and how they look then I am.

 

[itsjay]

The guy who always likes to call himself "fierce" (winner on that show ). Can't remeber his name.

Christian Siriano

 

[eastofeden]

Haha...Project Runway...I have never missed an episode. I love that show...and not because I love or even like fashion...I LOVE creativity and innovation. I watch Top Chef for the same reason.

Christian was the fierce one...I love that guy. I loved Chris March too (same season as Christian)...he was the guy who did the costumes for Beach Banket Babylon....

I never have a clue who the winner is gonna be. I usually pick the loser as the winner. I cannot get into the whole midset of what constitutes good fashion...

My favorite guy was Daniel...he is gay (season 2 I think)...I like Uli too..she is on the current all stars.

 

[stutter032]

What people often fail to grasp is that just because you've been put under a label, doesn't mean that you're confined by it, or by its narrowest definition. And like Giancarlo said, if you have a problem with the shallow perception of the label, do something about it. Don't fight against the label itself, that's idiotic. Women didn't insist on people to stop calling them women, they went and got equal rights for themselves...

I understand your logic and your point. I just don't think gays or what ever our identifier is supposed to be needs its own gender. I'm just a Man who likes other men. I don't think I am viewed different, at least with the people that I interact with daily. Women's rights was to prove that they were equal. It seems that some think we want to be viewed as equals but I'n our own category. It just seams counterproductive. When I'm a man and I don't feel I need to be classified as anything other then that..

First of all, comparing stuttering to homosexuality is laughable to the point of pulling a muscle. While both could have vaguely similar effects (in type, nowhere near in strength) in very limited environments (like school or some redneck bar), one is still a very surface thing that influences far fewer aspects of your life (namely - your perception of genders). Also in many (most?) cases - curable.

I just wanted to clarify i was not comparing my stutter to being gay. I was just saying that in my head I'm more focused on my stutter when it comes to how people perceive me, or how I'm identified. That being gay doesn't run thou my mind all the time. That when people meet me I stutter once or twice and i'm relived that i don't have to hide it, and then i speak fine and very fluent. It only acts up when I'm meeting new people for the most part. That i wished being gay was as obvious as my stutter and that people would just know. I'm constantly like should i tell them? due i need to tell them? due they know?

side not
Your right about the "cure" I have a device that looks like a hearing aid that is really annoying and controls my stutter. I've only used it a hand full of times in the 4 years that I've own it. I don't like it, but in most cases it's Not curable.. My speacheasy was a graduation gift from my grandparents. It was close to 6 grand. Not so easy to fix it for everyone. whole different topic yes i know..

 

[Kabluey]

Hmmm - I think it's kinda mean belittling stuttering and the impact it might have on a person's life. Stutter032 seems like a well-adjusted guy, but for some people it can be a crippling social impediment, more troubling and obvious than something that might be less obvious, like sexuality. I don't think it's fair to cast elements that make up a person aside as near-irrelevant.

There's a natural tendency for most people to want themselves to be the norm. And we'll be critical of those who do not match, hoping that they'll follow our lead. But I think this thread has shown that only seems to cause offense.

Anyway, I can only think of one stereotype that fits, having read this thread.
Argumentative.

 

[rareboy]

Just to walk backwards for a few minutes...

I think that one of things that originally caught my attention is that there still are folks out there who only think of fabulous, fashionable, stick thin bois as the personification of homo-liness.

Yet very quickly, someone raised the whole clone era when it seemed like every hot guy was wearing torn jeans and had a great moustache.

Most of these have matured into 'Bears'. Who now pursue 'Otters'.

The fact is, there are can be many stereotypes for homos....at the end of the day I would have thought that after all these years....everyone would have come to the conclusion and realization that there while there may be 'types' of people within any social structure....there really is no single stereotype for a whole community.

And no one 'type' of person should be considered either superior or inferior to another in the homo community.